Why scoff science?

[Jeff7]

How can people not believe in God?

How can people not believe in Zeus?

 

[timosyy]

The ignorance/sweeping generalities present in this thread are overwhelming. Threads like this always devolve into each side preaching to their respective choirs and yelling at the opposition across the aisle, rather than constructive conversation.

/sigh

Why does ATOT bother?

 

[Jeff7]

The ignorance/sweeping generalities present in this thread are overwhelming. Threads like this always devolve into each side preaching to their respective choirs and yelling at the opposition across the aisle, rather than constructive conversation.

/sigh

Why does ATOT bother?

Just another form of masturbation. The circle jerk continues until one or both sides get bored.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Just another form of masturbation. The circle jerk continues until one or both sides get bored.

Speaking of your contribution.....

 

[destrekor]

How can people not believe in God?

Simple. It just never made sense to me. I grew up with a loose belief in God, parents never shoved it down my throat nor did we go to church.

I have my basic levels of understanding of Christianity, and kind of know a good few of the stories written. I won't make sweeping generalizations saying that I know a lot about the religion, as really that's irrelevant.

But moving on...

I got to a point in my adolescence where it just clicked - none of it made sense. I tried to rationalize everything, and that just made it worse. Then I looked to the most fundamental basics and attacked them with logic, and at that point my head hurt. From that moment on, it took me forever to figure out how others actually believed in God. It hurt my head something fierce trying to understand just how such a pervasive belief ever came to be, but that was my youthful ignorance at work - over the past 5 years, I've really narrowed down my understanding of people, and just how strong our tribal nature can be.

Because no matter the chain of events that led to the Earth forming, my mind dictates I make sense of the very beginning.
If some Deity made the universe, WTF made the Deity? And then, that makes the Deity far less important, as its maker would be what I'd like to concern myself with. I'd argue the maker needs to get a damn leash already.

As the Universe is entirely natural, maybe religion should adopt the Earth too is entirely natural? Take the next step, and realize life was a huge accident following a chain reaction (and largely a mistake by nature I'd argue), and thus take away the notion that Man is made in the image of some being. That then steps on just about everything in the various religious texts. We're left without religion. O happy days :whiste:.

Now, let's take a step back. I'm comfortable with the belief that the Earth might be one giant sandbox for some super advanced civilization, who at this point might be long dead, considering life started some odd 3Ga (roughly/more precisely 3500Ma). But in general, it wasn't until about 2Ga that cells became more complex, and then only 1000Ma that multicellular organisms began to appear. Well, beyond 1000Ma, the timeline is speculative. But from 1000Ma to present, things are a lot more scientifically sound.

Essentially, from the dawn of multicellular organisms 1000Ma, it took roughly 997.5 million years for the genus Homo to come around. From there it took another 2.3 million years for our species to even formally come into existence. From 2.5-0.2Ma, there were a lot of offshoots, some that came to be quite prominent on their own. Homo neanderthalensis come to mind at all? Surprisingly, as I just found this out just now, they had a brain capacity that essentially matched that of H. sapiens.

Scientists have done genome studies on Neanderthal remains, and have studied the DNA of skeletal remains of other Homo species. All direct evidence that we were just among quite a few other equally capable species. Neanderthals had tools, simple clothing, and other shared similarities with early humans. The genome mapping shows significant amounts of shared genetic material, hell our ancestors like mated with them. Or raped them, during the pillaging...
...Because it has been argued that it was most likely tribal wars between H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis that brought about the extinction of the latter. Territory and resources most likely, be it food and water, or shelter. Early life was a bitch for species similar to us, by far one of the weaker animals and we were fairly easy prey for many creatures. Our body lost most of the potential strength, including jaw strength, over the course of our evolution and the genus's overall genetic drift.

Of course, religion not only ignores all of this, it flat out rejects it all. And religion refuses to adapt, which is the hallmark of why I despise religion. Life 1000-2000 years ago was far and away a different time, yet the religious hierarchy refuses to modernize the material. Why? Because to them, that signifies failure, and we can't have that now can we?

I support one's right to belief in a Deity, hell multiple Deities if one so chooses, I surely would if I had to make such a choice. I don't find anything criminal about it or anything of the sort, though I can hardly say the same for the core religions.

My problem with the religious beliefs, and the notion of a Creator-level Deity, is it flat out rejects the hard evidence we have in front of our eyes. The above about our species, for example.

What I propose, and is something for which there is nothing truly contradictory in terms of evidence, is advanced civilizations that served as path guides, crafters, seeders of stuff.

Could some super special creature, possibly with his super special buddies, have seeded the very first ingredients for life?
Could they have come back from time to time, picking which creatures served fit, which did not?
In recent history, could these super special creatures from some distant advanced civilization, have had a hand in the extinction of our cousin species; to that end, all 10+ related species in our Homo genus?
And in even more recent times, could they have acted the part of Gods for the advanced civilizations (at the time)?

There is nothing that I see that can contradict any of that in terms of what we actually know, because it has been theorized the earliest ingredients for life may have caught a ride on a comet, one of the many many things that did so, notably all the water here.

And hell, I have a lot of fun imagining "what if that is actually true?"
The difference for me though, is imagination. I don't believe in any otherworldly involvement, though I accept the possibilities of aliens mucking around. This planet has been sitting here for over 4 billion years, that is a LOT of time that I cannot even wrap my head around. Plenty of stars and planets have come and gone prior to the stellar dust around the Sun having formed into the Earth. And even more during the years Earth existed prior to us making our mark. Hell, prior to the Earth, the Universe did its thing for roughly 10 billion years.
I simply look at life without a lens. I see us as one happy little accident, along a line of many happy little accidents. It's easy to see that as something when you are the end product of all those events, it's the problem of hindsight. Chaos theory, it's fun as hell!

in conclusion...

But in the end, I accept there is some remote possibility that if my thoughts turn out to be wrong, I'll likely be judged by one hell of an asshole and damned for my beliefs. Oh well, such is the price. My little sacrifice, if you will. Why? Because I see something better in life than devoting worship to something otherworldly. And that is Man. Man is deserving of significantly more attention than it gets, because we have
failed time and time again. We repeat our mistakes, repeat history.

So what I hope, is that by putting aside otherworldly beliefs, we can focus on ourselves. Admit that we, and we alone, are responsible for all the devastation that has occurred, and along that, all the significantly good things. We are not only capable, we are responsible. We must accept that our nature is not a very civil one. But it doesn't have to be our end, we have potential. To recognize that, we need to recognize us as something quite far removed from special. Because we're just another animal, we have all the same pitfalls and all the grace. My goal isn't to damn all of our kind, but rather, to take action ourselves, to devote ourselves to progress and improving ourselves at every opportunity. The life we live in this very moment, is what is important. We need to make great progress if we want future generations to not have to deal with the failures of all the previous generations. This is something can do to save our children from our own shortcomings; won't you think of the children?!

aw damn.
Please read my book.

 

[Jeff7]

-Epic snip-
aw damn.
Please read my book.

I hate to say it, but I think NuclearNed's book would sell more copies than yours. :awe:

 

[TridenT]

How can people not believe in Zeus?

Shieeet... How can you not believe in fuckin' Thor, bitch?! The dude has got a FUCKIN' HAMMER!! A GOD DAMN BAN HAMMER NONE THE LESS!!!! :awe::awe::awe: :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

 

[DanDaManJC]

The ignorance/sweeping generalities present in this thread are overwhelming. Threads like this always devolve into each side preaching to their respective choirs and yelling at the opposition across the aisle, rather than constructive conversation.

/sigh

Why does ATOT bother?

well i was genuinely interested in the evangelical POV. thought atot might have a couple lurking behind the sheets.

 

[destrekor]

I hate to say it, but I think NuclearNed's book would sell more copies than yours. :awe:

Most certainly. His would be too damn hilarious to pass up.

 

[totalnoob]

Shieeet... How can you not believe in fuckin' Thor, bitch?! The dude has got a FUCKIN' HAMMER!! A GOD DAMN BAN HAMMER NONE THE LESS!!!! :awe::awe::awe: :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

Thor's hammer has nothing on Ted's banstick.

 

[meltdown75]

Shieeet... How can you not believe in fuckin' Thor, bitch?! The dude has got a FUCKIN' HAMMER!! A GOD DAMN BAN HAMMER NONE THE LESS!!!! :awe::awe::awe: :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

you're the last person in the world that should be calling anyone "bitch". please refrain from doing so in the future. thx.

 

[meltdown75]

Most certainly. His would be too damn hilarious to pass up.

yeah... hilarious, like the "Laughter is the Best Medicine" section of Reader's Digest. D:

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Things naturally go into a state of less order and decay, not increased order.

This claim is simply false on its face. Look up Ilya Prigogine and the work for which he was awarded a Nobel Prize. He showed that organized dissipative structures can form that enhance the overall increase in entropy in a thermodynamic system.

The idea of blowing up something big and somehow making galaxies is retarded.

The inaptly-named Big Bang was not an explosion.

The idea that stuff has gotten more complex by itself is retarded. Totally goes against the laws of thermodynamics.

The universe is not known to be a thermodynamic system for these reasons: It does not appear to have boundaries, and it is not evident that the total energy of the universe is finite. Therefore, any conclusions about the universe itself that you try to extrapolate from the behavioral descriptions of things within the universe will be necessarily invalid.

But never mind all that. It doesn't fit what you guys want to believe, so you'll find some way to ignore it or attempt to discredit it

I think you should reflect on the egregious errors in fact which you have perpetrated, and then read this sentence with yourself in mind.

 

[nerp]

The inaptly-named Big Bang was not an explosion.

Not only that, the "thing" that was that "banged" wasn't really big, either.

 

[Gibsons]

Not only that, the "thing" that was that "banged" wasn't really big, either.

 

[Juddog]

 

[disappoint]

OMG you said he doesn't exist so I reject your reality and substitute my own. /thread.

 

[DrPizza]

How can people not believe in God?

Turn that question around - Look at all the Gods the Romans and Greeks worshipped. If you're a Christian, you'll happily point out that the Romans & Greeks were wrong. But you completely ignore that they believe that their gods interacted with them on a daily basis & they could see all the signs of what their gods did.

It sort of works like this:
"Bob's sick! Quick everyone, let's pray to Zeus to make Bob feel better!"
Bob gets better.
"Zeus answered our prayers!"
Or Bob dies: "Zeus had other plans for Bob."
1000 years later:
"Those Romans sure were dumb for believing in multiple gods. Hey, Bob's sick. Quick everyone, let's pray to God to make Bob feel better!"
Bob gets better.
"Good thing we're praying to the right God."
or Bob gets worse.
"Bob's in a better place now."

Of course, the odds of Bob getting better are drastically better now than they were in the days of the Romans. You don't have God & prayers to thank for that - you have modern medicine to thank - medicine based on evolutionary principles.

 

[zinfamous]

How can people not believe in God?

rationality, education, etc....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Things naturally go into a state of less order and decay, not increased order. The idea of blowing up something big and somehow making galaxies is retarded. The idea that stuff has gotten more complex by itself is retarded. Totally goes against the laws of thermodynamics.

But never mind all that. It doesn't fit what you guys want to believe, so you'll find some way to ignore it or attempt to discredit it

I was somewhat reluctant to bump this thread back up but I had a nagging déja vu-like feeling about this post by SparkyJJO after I crafted my response to it.

So, after I did some searching I found this post by me which is essentially composed of the same refutations I had to repeat in my response to him in this thread.

I think it stands as a powerful commentary about the mentality of Creationists like SparkyJJO, and their disinterest in truth. Notice how prescient my final comments in that post are after considering SparkyJJO's appearance in this thread parroting the same refuted canards as before.

I'd offer dollars to doughnuts that this won't be the last time we see them either.

 

[Herbot]

rationality, education, etc....

Yeah, guys like Decartes and Aquinas certainly weren't educated, much less rational...

Postmodern thought has destroyed your minds.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, guys like Decartes and Aquinas certainly weren't educated, much less rational...

Postmodern thought has destroyed your minds.

You're talking about two men that lived centuries before the sciences of evolution and abiogenesis were developed.

We don't need bronze age mythology to explain these things anymore. I'm fairly certain that if these two men were alive today they would either be atheists or have a very different understanding of God than traditional Christianity.

 

[TridenT]

rationality, education, etc....

I believe the etc entails being awesome too, right? :biggrin::awe:

 

[Jeff7]

This claim is simply false on its face. Look up Ilya Prigogine and the work for which he was awarded a Nobel Prize. He showed that organized dissipative structures can form that enhance the overall increase in entropy in a thermodynamic system.

Wikipedia just sucked up another decent chunk of my time.

 

[Herbot]

You're talking about two men that lived centuries before the sciences of evolution and abiogenesis were developed.

We don't need bronze age mythology to explain these things anymore. I'm fairly certain that if these two men were alive today they would either be atheists or have a very different understanding of God than traditional Christianity.

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't somehow magically make it more true.