Why PC has never had a racing game even close to Gran Turismo or Forza?

[XavierMace]

Any PC gamer who actually gets into playing racing games is not going to do it on KB/M...not even for playing casual games like NFS.

This.

I haven't played a racing game on keyboard and mouse since like NFS 2 SE.

 

[fourdegrees11]

The point of a GT/Forza type game is that you can take basically any real car you can think of new/old and hot-rod/pimp/rice it out any way you want, and then race it. That's what's missing from PC. You guys are completely missing the point.

 

[Sulaco]

I don't think the demand was really there, although that may be changing. The PC has always had access to arguably more accurate racing sims. Forza and GT fall into the "if it feels real, it must be real" category in spite of the fact that the race physics are quite dumb compared to PC-centric race sims such as Race 07 just to name one. In racing, many gamers equate difficulty with realism which is silly.

I think what you are asking for is all the fluff that comes with games like Forza and GT that is more about busy work and collecting than actual racing...like painting cars and showcases. While I think everyone would enjoy driving their favorite cars in these games, I've never bought into the aspect of having so many licensed cars because the list of cars that are actually competitive in most circumstances in game tends to be quite small.

With racing games, less is more when it comes to realism. We tend to see the most realistic modeling when the develop has few or one car type to replicate. 500 licensed cars means inflating the budget and diluting the time spent on each car. Forza might have fewer cars than GT, but they have a solid release every two years, GT has a much more sparse release pattern that has recently been plagued by underwhelming delivery. Whats the point of having 500 cars when only a fraction of them are modeled top to bottom, inside and out. Including hundreds of PS2/PS3 era "standard" cars and calling it good is hardly awe inspiring.

I disagree. Define "competitive". Because each car, like in the SCCA, is designated into a particular class. And within each class are a number of similarly performing cars separated by varying degrees. So saying "only a few are competitive" completely misses the point of class competition; no one is racing a 458 against a GTI (although you could). But it can be just as much fun to race a GTI against, say, a Focus RS. Or any of the other half dozen cars in that class. Yes, they're not all Ferraris, but therein lies the fun.

The point of a GT/Forza type game is that you can take basically any real car you can think of new/old and hot-rod/pimp/rice it out any way you want, and then race it. That's what's missing from PC. You guys are completely missing the point.

Exactly. They are two different experiences. Personally, I would rather sacrifice a small measure of the "hardcore sim realism", for the flexibility and sheer fun of a tremendously robust car roster.
If all you want to do is race the latest and greatest super cars you will never own, that's fine and I understand that. But the appeal of games like GT and Forza is precisely opposite; it's rosters of cars you can (and very likely might) actually own and drive, and that is its own genre of fun and satisfaction.

 

[futurefields]

The point of a GT/Forza type game is that you can take basically any real car you can think of new/old and hot-rod/pimp/rice it out any way you want, and then race it. That's what's missing from PC. You guys are completely missing the point.

Of course they are missing the point. It's a FF thread. They would rather find ways to attack me personally, like the guy who told me I need to hit the gym, than consider the topic in any kind of realistic manner.

 

[Stringjam]

Is it just too expensive for a pc-centric company to do this type of game with 500 licensed cars realistically modeled?

I do believe I read some dev comments from Project CARS staff that the expense of licensing the cars was prohibitive.

This is the same developer that created Shift2:Unleashed, which had a lot of the attributes you're describing (lots of production cars - obviously not GT amounts, modifications, ability to modify finish).

Biggest problem with Shift2 was the handling. It was just bad.

 

[ronbo613]

Forza and GT have a lot of money behind them, it would be difficult for an independent developer to come up with the cash to pay for all the franchise licensing. Also, those are marquee games for those consoles to showcase the console's abilities, they might be losing money on them. Remember that much of the promo for Forza 5 was made with computers that were far more powerful than the XBone.

I am a person who likes cars and video games, in that order(as opposed to somebody who like video games that happen to have cars in them). The only place I'll ever own a Ferrari or McLaren is a video game. Generally speaking, I think a person who buys a racing or flight sim is going to be a little older than the average gamer, that market is probably smaller than the mainstream gamer. No matter what driving game it is, public multiplayer racing is pretty much a demo derby with twelve year olds, it may be a lost cause.

After Forza 4 and Horizon, I now have Project Cars and Dirt Rally. Still using an Xbox 360 controller, I find Project Cars pretty similar to Forza 4 without some cars and vehicle customization. I like Dirt Rally because it gives me the "feeling" of driving. It may not be as technically complex as other driving sims or semi-sims, but it's fun to drive. That's the most important thing for driving games as well as in real life driving.

 

[Stringjam]

I like Dirt Rally because it gives me the "feeling" of driving. It may not be as technically complex as other driving sims or semi-sims, but it's fun to drive. That's the most important thing for driving games as well as in real life driving.

Indeed. By far the best game in the Dirt series, and a much closer approach to "Sim" than previous games.

Always keeps me on the edge of my seat, because when you're pushing for a good time, all it takes is one little mistake to end up on your lid.

 

[Midwayman]

There isn't one because GT/Forza have console money backing them. A PC one would be a new IP (always risky) selling a genre the PC isn't well known for (risky again). It would have to go multiplatform to be able to do it and then compete against the giants doing what they are good at. Where there is room to succeed is by doing something different. Normally that means arcade/flashy instead of 'pseudo-sim'. Maybe attaching a story to it.

Now if you want a racing game instead of a car collecting game the PC delivers. A lot of the other types of games from 3rd parties make their way to PC as well.

I'm not really a console gamer, but is there anything that really competes with gt/forza on the same platform on console? I don't ever really remember that being the case when I did have one.

 

[jlee]

lol.

None? Really?

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

http://il2sturmovik.com/

...and all those are just the sims. Not even counting the arcadey ones on PC like Wings of Prey and War Thunder.

...how have I not heard of DCS yet?

 

[tential]

Pc gamers don't own an Xbox controller? Thatsbodd to me

 

[Anteaus]

...how have I not heard of DCS yet?

You are late to the game (pun?). DCS Warthog + TM Warthog HOTAS = awesome.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Pc gamers don't own an Xbox controller? Thatsbodd to me

No. I don't.

Also, PC's could easily have those games, however the 2 that started that mess were exclusives. Chances are they wouldn't sell nearly as well (much like sports games in general). The way things are progressing though, unless the companies force them to be exclusive going forward, they most likely will not be.

I really don't even know how GT ever got popular, it is a slog that never felt like a racing game and I've tried many times to get into it but then I fall into liking the more arcade style racing than flat out sims.

 

[cmdrdredd]

No. I don't.

Also, PC's could easily have those games, however the 2 that started that mess were exclusives. Chances are they wouldn't sell nearly as well (much like sports games in general). The way things are progressing though, unless the companies force them to be exclusive going forward, they most likely will not be.

I really don't even know how GT ever got popular, it is a slog that never felt like a racing game and I've tried many times to get into it but then I fall into liking the more arcade style racing than flat out sims.

You have to go back to 1997 and compare Gran Turismo to the other so called racing games on consoles. There was nothing like it.

 

[Sulaco]

I really don't even know how GT ever got popular, it is a slog that never felt like a racing game and I've tried many times to get into it but then I fall into liking the more arcade style racing than flat out sims.

GT is going to have to evolve in its gameplay model if its going to continue to compete with the likes of Forza and others.
Its model of forcing a slog through boring and uninteresting cars and races just to be able to sniff the fun cars and events is going to have to change, at least for folks like me, who don't have endless hours to devote to mundane racing of every early '90s Japanese beater just to have some fun with other sports cars.

They'll also need to learn that having 30 different variants of said '90s Japanese beaters rendered in previous gen quality graphics does not allow you to claim a car roster of billions.

 

[futurefields]

I do believe I read some dev comments from Project CARS staff that the expense of licensing the cars was prohibitive.

This is the same developer that created Shift2:Unleashed, which had a lot of the attributes you're describing (lots of production cars - obviously not GT amounts, modifications, ability to modify finish).

Biggest problem with Shift2 was the handling. It was just bad.

Shift 2 came close. Not as many cars but a really good selection. But like you say the handling sucks, its frustrating to play when you are literally fighting your car to keep it in the road.

 

[futurefields]

Im gona spend some more time with Grid Autosport, though first impressions were bad. Seemed like a rush job by Codemasters.

 

[ronbo613]

You are late to the game (pun?). DCS Warthog + TM Warthog HOTAS = awesome.

You have to admit that DCS is definitely not a game. If you think you are going to have a couple beers, hop in an A-10 and fly around shooting up the place, not going to happen. If you are really interested in flying and are willing to learn how, it's top of the heap.

Indeed. By far the best game in the Dirt series, and a much closer approach to "Sim" than previous games.

Always keeps me on the edge of my seat, because when you're pushing for a good time, all it takes is one little mistake to end up on your lid.

I'm one mistake per race away from being great.

Im gona spend some more time with Grid Autosport, though first impressions were bad. Seemed like a rush job by Codemasters.

I thought it was a very arcadey feeling racing game, but still pretty fun overall.

 

[BSim500]

I love racing games but would probably never buy a wheel. Never been quite that nerdy. If it doesn't play well on a gamepad it's a bad game. Wheels are prohibitive. Lol, like I'm going to have one of those on my desk. So much space taken up. Or what, take it down and set back up every time I want to play? Lol...

I used to own one. In comparison gamepads are only slightly less rubbish than K&M for many racing games. Many of them have a rapid-release clamp that takes all of 2 seconds to hinge / unhinge the steering wheel whilst the pedals just sit on the floor. I only got rid of mine because I went off racing games. It worked very well for everything from Formula 1 to Monster Truck Madness 2.

 

[Stringjam]

I used to own one. In comparison gamepads are only slightly less rubbish than K&M for many racing games. Many of them have a rapid-release clamp that takes all of 2 seconds to hinge / unhinge the steering wheel whilst the pedals just sit on the floor. I only got rid of mine because I went off racing games. It worked very well for everything from Formula 1 to Monster Truck Madness 2.

I use the joysticks and rudder pedals I have for flight games for racing games because I don't have a wheel yet.

Not quite as immersive as a wheel, except for being able to use my off-hand stick as the e-brake.

 

[Oyeve]

Keyboard and mice are the standard controllers for PC.

Not many people have analog controllers.

What decade are you living in? I've been PC gaming since PC gaming began and I have always had controllers other than the KB and mouse.