Why oh why would someone go to India as a tourist?

[madoka]

I don't give a shit if my crap gets stolen, I give a crap if my shit gets pushed in

Like this couple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

Christian and Newsom were leaving an apartment together to go to a friend's party when they were abducted from the apartment complex parking lot.

According to the testimony of the Knox County Acting Medical Examiner Dr. Darinka Mileusnic-Polchan at the subsequent trial of Eric Boyd, Newsom was repeatedly sodomized with an object and then blindfolded, gagged, arms and feet bound and his head covered. Barefoot, he was dragged outside the house to a set of nearby railroad tracks. He was shot in the back of his head, neck and back and his body was then set on fire.

According to the testimony of the medical examiner, Channon's death came after hours of torture, having suffered injuries to her vagina, anus and mouth. She was raped with an unidentified object and beaten in the head. It was also reported that her body was scrubbed with bleach which was also poured down her throat, in an attempt by her attackers to remove DNA evidence, while Channon was still alive. She was then bound with curtains and strips of bedding, her face covered with a bin liner and her body stashed within five large bin bags, before being placed inside a residential waste disposal unit and covered with sheets. The medical examiner said there was evidence that Channon slowly suffocated to death.

 

[Newbian]

India has many unique things to see and tasty food so I don't understand the hate.

I could never get into their food after trying it at a few places, both americanized and authentic, and never cared for 90% of it really.

I am not a big fan of curry and cottage cheese that while on it's own is ok but making sweets out of it was not to my tasting yet they use coconut that is great on sweet food in anything but it seems.

Not to mention not a huge fish fan unless it's been fried removes a lot also with some few exception.

However tandoori is one of the exceptions and is awesome.

 

[Agent11]

Like this couple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

Christian and Newsom were leaving an apartment together to go to a friend's party when they were abducted from the apartment complex parking lot.

According to the testimony of the Knox County Acting Medical Examiner Dr. Darinka Mileusnic-Polchan at the subsequent trial of Eric Boyd, Newsom was repeatedly sodomized with an object and then blindfolded, gagged, arms and feet bound and his head covered. Barefoot, he was dragged outside the house to a set of nearby railroad tracks. He was shot in the back of his head, neck and back and his body was then set on fire.

According to the testimony of the medical examiner, Channon's death came after hours of torture, having suffered injuries to her vagina, anus and mouth. She was raped with an unidentified object and beaten in the head. It was also reported that her body was scrubbed with bleach which was also poured down her throat, in an attempt by her attackers to remove DNA evidence, while Channon was still alive. She was then bound with curtains and strips of bedding, her face covered with a bin liner and her body stashed within five large bin bags, before being placed inside a residential waste disposal unit and covered with sheets. The medical examiner said there was evidence that Channon slowly suffocated to death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix1ZNe4Zrxw

 

[preslove]

I think it's pretty clear after even a minute of research that India is not a safe place to bike across. I'd totally jump at the chance to tour certain parts of India with hotels to sleep in.

If I wanted to bike a long distance with a tent as my main shelter, Europe would be my first choice. If I were European, the USA would be first choice.

It's unfortunate that India is so unsafe (esp. for women) and that this couple was dumb

 

[randomrogue]

I've spent quite a bit of time in India and just like the USA there are good parts and there are bad parts. The southern part of India is absolutely amazing and I would be comfortable camping there. The northern part is way more hostile and under no circumstances would I camp. Forget the rape for a moment, you're almost guaranteed to get robbed. In the south you're more likely to be invited home for dinner. It's basically like comparing the friendliness of New York City to Madison Wisconsin or Dallas Texas.

With that said it's still one of the most amazing places to visit. I always suggest that people start in the south. Fly into Mumbai and head to Kerala. This will give you a great first impression and by the time you get to places like Delhi, Agra, Varanasi, etc you'll be hardened and not so naive. Use the cabs, stay in hotels, and don't fall for the scams.

Camping was pretty normal in Southern Africa. You camp on the grounds of a hostel or hotel and it's safe. Don't jump to conclusions about the safety of a place by stereotypes.

 

[Farang]

I've spent quite a bit of time in India and just like the USA there are good parts and there are bad parts. The southern part of India is absolutely amazing and I would be comfortable camping there. The northern part is way more hostile and under no circumstances would I camp. Forget the rape for a moment, you're almost guaranteed to get robbed. In the south you're more likely to be invited home for dinner. It's basically like comparing the friendliness of New York City to Madison Wisconsin or Dallas Texas.

With that said it's still one of the most amazing places to visit. I always suggest that people start in the south. Fly into Mumbai and head to Kerala. This will give you a great first impression and by the time you get to places like Delhi, Agra, Varanasi, etc you'll be hardened and not so naive. Use the cabs, stay in hotels, and don't fall for the scams.

Camping was pretty normal in Southern Africa. You camp on the grounds of a hostel or hotel and it's safe. Don't jump to conclusions about the safety of a place by stereotypes.

Is it really? I hadn't heard that. I thought camping was pretty common up with Rajastan and I'd think people do it regular in the Himalayan regions.

I always thought of India as like Southeast Asia (very unlikely to get robbed, feel fine camping nearly anywhere) with more danger from political violence

 

[randomrogue]

Is it really? I hadn't heard that. I thought camping was pretty common up with Rajastan and I'd think people do it regular in the Himalayan regions.

I always thought of India as like Southeast Asia (very unlikely to get robbed, feel fine camping nearly anywhere) with more danger from political violence

Been to Punjab and I could potentially see camping there being ok. Not sure about Rajastan. Camping in the Himalayas isn't necessary unless you're way up top since they have tea houses that are either free if you eat there or cost $1 per night. Too damn cold for camping unless you have no other choice while at a basecamp. I can say that camping anywhere near Varanasi, Agra, or Delhi is bordering on crazy. This couple was biking towards Agra and raped south of Delhi.

 

[MagickMan]

I have to agree, went to India and aside from a few wealthy areas in Bombay, it was like an open sewer. Millions of square miles of open sewer. Want to go to a great place that's what you imagine India should be like? Visit Jakarta.

 

[Farang]

Been to Punjab and I could potentially see camping there being ok. Not sure about Rajastan. Camping in the Himalayas isn't necessary unless you're way up top since they have tea houses that are either free if you eat there or cost $1 per night. Too damn cold for camping unless you have no other choice while at a basecamp. I can say that camping anywhere near Varanasi, Agra, or Delhi is bordering on crazy. This couple was biking towards Agra and raped south of Delhi.

I could see Delhi being sketchy. I don't think tea houses are necessarily everywhere but I didn't do much trekking when I went overland to Ladakh through Manali Shimla etc.. In the summer it would be just fine to camp in the Himalayas.

I sort of lucked out and ended up getting drunk with my American friends and a bunch of young lawyers in Delhi at their apartment. Met one guy in a bar who invited us over. Usually I would have been a bit sketched out (but still gone), but I left my SLR at the bar and as I was going out the door he chased me down and gave it to me. I figured had he wanted to rob me he would've been happy enough with the camera.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/India/United-States/Crime

Acc to the UN's take on rapes across the world, including their estimate of unreported ones, a woman is 17 times more likely to be raped in USA than in India.

Infact USA is the country with the most criminal activities in the world.

I had read the UN thing in some other article online. The above is just per capita using the UN figures.

 

[Farang]

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/India/United-States/Crime

Acc to the UN's take on rapes across the world, including their estimate of unreported ones, a woman is 17 times more likely to be raped in USA than in India.

Infact USA is the country with the most criminal activities in the world.

I had read the UN thing in some other article online. The above is just per capita using the UN figures.

I'm not trying to be patriotically biased but I wonder if cultural differences and corruption mean in India it is much less likely to go to the police about being raped. Especially in the Muslim areas.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

The UN reports make an extrapolated estimation including the number of unreported cases.

So the number of rapes in USA per capita is 10-20 times more.

If you only compare reported vs reported cases then USA probably has 50+ reported cases for every one case reported in India.

The figure of 17 times is the real estimate by UN agencies, not the reported figure.

 

[Farang]

The UN reports make an extrapolated estimation including the number of unreported cases.

So the number of rapes in USA per capita is 10-20 times more.

If you only compare reported vs reported cases then USA probably has 50+ reported cases for every one case reported in India.

The figure of 17 times is the real estimate by UN agencies, not the reported figure.

Interesting. I think we'd at least have to agree estimating unreported rapes in a country of 1 billion+ is not going to be extremely accurate. However 17x is quite a figure

 

[aaksheytalwar]

But 25% of rapes in India are rumored/supposedly happening in just Delhi/NCR alone, the population of which is around 15 million, not 1 billion. There are very specific places where rapes are common.

And I have never heard of a upper middle class or affluent girl being raped, even if that does happen, it is still probably very rare. Usually it is the poor or lower middle class who don't live in safe areas.

I do agree that my female peers won't go walk city main roads at 9 pm at night, but then again there is little need to actually walk on foot and even smaller chance of anything actually happening except at most somebody staring at you. But rape is certainly not common like it is in South Africa,

Also, in India 96% rapes were committed by friends, peers or relatives of the female victims. So walking of the road doesn't seem like an ideal way for that to happen. Besides majority of the crime commuters have been drunk according to various surveys, again, drinking is not people do daily in India.

 

[nehalem256]

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/India/United-States/Crime

Acc to the UN's take on rapes across the world, including their estimate of unreported ones, a woman is 17 times more likely to be raped in USA than in India.

Infact USA is the country with the most criminal activities in the world.

I had read the UN thing in some other article online. The above is just per capita using the UN figures.

Read your own link

DEFINITION: Number of sexual assaults recorded by police in that country per 100,000 population.

Or look at the robberies. Do you really think you are 91 times more likely to be robbed in the US?

Essentially the numbers appear to say that India is essentially a crime-free utopia.

 

[Ancalagon44]

But 25% of rapes in India are rumored/supposedly happening in just Delhi/NCR alone, the population of which is around 15 million, not 1 billion. There are very specific places where rapes are common.

And I have never heard of a upper middle class or affluent girl being raped, even if that does happen, it is still probably very rare. Usually it is the poor or lower middle class who don't live in safe areas.

I do agree that my female peers won't go walk city main roads at 9 pm at night, but then again there is little need to actually walk on foot and even smaller chance of anything actually happening except at most somebody staring at you. But rape is certainly not common like it is in South Africa,

Also, in India 96% rapes were committed by friends, peers or relatives of the female victims. So walking of the road doesn't seem like an ideal way for that to happen. Besides majority of the crime commuters have been drunk according to various surveys, again, drinking is not people do daily in India.

South Africa is still the rape capital of the world, much to our shame, but events like this, and articles like this, make me nervous about ever bringing female company with me to India.

 

[randomrogue]

Rape statistics are complicated. I believe the rape capital of the world is Lesotho followed by Sweden. Clearly something is amiss. You cannot compare rape statistics between countries because of the way they are legally dealt with and reported in each one. If you have underage sex in the USA and get convicted of rape it counts as one count of Rape. In Sweden each separate incident of sex would be a separate count. So considering the average sexually active high school student there has sex 83 times a year you can expect rape statistics to be way worse there than in the USA.

 

[randomrogue]

I could see Delhi being sketchy. I don't think tea houses are necessarily everywhere but I didn't do much trekking when I went overland to Ladakh through Manali Shimla etc.. In the summer it would be just fine to camp in the Himalayas.

I sort of lucked out and ended up getting drunk with my American friends and a bunch of young lawyers in Delhi at their apartment. Met one guy in a bar who invited us over. Usually I would have been a bit sketched out (but still gone), but I left my SLR at the bar and as I was going out the door he chased me down and gave it to me. I figured had he wanted to rob me he would've been happy enough with the camera.

I have family friends in Delhi. The poor in Delhi are destitute. The rich are sultans. My friends were richer than I could possibly imagine. Incredible to see. So between spending time with them, going to country clubs, living in a hotel, and doing all the touristy things I simply cannot imagine why ANYONE would camp in that area by choice. I also can't imagine why anyone would bike there. The road conditions in India are terrible. This is just a lack of common sense much like people going to demonstrations in foreign countries.

I was in the Himalayas in October and November so it was really cold. I was dressed for it but still. There were enough tea houses where I was at that I can't imagine camping being viable. Maybe in India. Nepal had very well developed treks going up towards all the peaks and passes.

 

[MagickMan]

I'm not trying to be patriotically biased but I wonder if cultural differences and corruption mean in India it is much less likely to go to the police about being raped. Especially in the Muslim areas.

I'd say fewer than 1/10th get reported, if that many.

 

[Farang]

I have family friends in Delhi. The poor in Delhi are destitute. The rich are sultans. My friends were richer than I could possibly imagine. Incredible to see. So between spending time with them, going to country clubs, living in a hotel, and doing all the touristy things I simply cannot imagine why ANYONE would camp in that area by choice. I also can't imagine why anyone would bike there. The road conditions in India are terrible. This is just a lack of common sense much like people going to demonstrations in foreign countries.

I was in the Himalayas in October and November so it was really cold. I was dressed for it but still. There were enough tea houses where I was at that I can't imagine camping being viable. Maybe in India. Nepal had very well developed treks going up towards all the peaks and passes.

Yea I can't say it is an ideal camping destination. But for major overland trips you may end up there. Some people have specific itineraries in mind (i.e. to bike overland and camp the entire journey) so they may want to do it even if more practical options exist (I agree camping in northern India when accommodations are so cheap is silly for the average tourist).

I don't think this changes my impression that India is a generally safe country to visit. It's countries with cultural violence issues (Central and South America) that worry me more because it seems they opt to rob you at gunpoint rather than pickpocket

 

[Imp]

I think it's pretty clear after even a minute of research that India is not a safe place to bike across. I'd totally jump at the chance to tour certain parts of India with hotels to sleep in.

If I wanted to bike a long distance with a tent as my main shelter, Europe would be my first choice. If I were European, the USA would be first choice.

It's unfortunate that India is so unsafe (esp. for women) and that this couple was dumb

Maybe they've been watching too many travel shows... Those shows never show the team of 5 big men accompanying the female traveler.

 

[iGas]

Why oh why would someone go to India USA as a tourist?

http://www.news24.com/World/News/US-teen-gets-life-for-killing-UK-tourists-20120329

 

[KlokWyze]

If you're curious.. as someone who traveled there for 3 months this was spot on for me:

https://sites.google.com/a/mitty.com/amlit/short-stores/india

I noticed elsewhere that comments from Indians found this to be a really shitty insulting article, but I don't think they understood it just comes from the frustrations of a Western tourist who isn't used to living there.

I just read that whole article and basically confirmed my assumptions. Good writing!

I suppose I could call on Lord Shiva to destroy all the roaches. Or the phlegm. But instead I just call on Lord Ativan, destroyer of consciousness.

:biggrin:

 

[Dr. Detroit]

The only people who will defend that shithole of a country is an Indian.

As I work in Silicon Valley -I've heard the horror stories and the #1 goal of every Indian is to GTFO and move to someplace nice like 'Murica, UK, Dubai, NZ.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/17/world/asia/india-open-toilets-udas

Nearly 60% of the people in the world who defecate in the open belong to India, we should be ashamed of this," he said.

According to the World Health Organization, open areas are the only toilet option for an estimated 625 million Indians. A recent government census showed nearly half of India's households do not have a toilet, but more people own a mobile phone -- 53.2% of Indians have a mobile phone compared to 46.9% with lavatories

 

[KlokWyze]

The only people who will defend that shithole of a country is an Indian.

As I work in Silicon Valley -I've heard the horror stories and the #1 goal of every Indian is to GTFO and move to someplace nice like 'Murica, UK, Dubai, NZ.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/17/world/asia/india-open-toilets-udas

boof