Why no one should consider voting for Jeb Bush.

[nickqt]

Both parties worship their politicians as ones who can do no wrong.

According to figures obtained from the Department of Defense, a total of 263 U.S. military personnel died in the Iraq war after 2008. Obama withdrew all U.S. forces from that country in December 2011.

Meanwhile, he increased the number of troops in Afghanistan, where 1,564 U.S. military men and women have died since 2008.

-- these numbers are accurate through Obama's first term only so I'm sure the death toll has risen.

The point isn't who killed more people.. It's that both parties are war hawks. I find it amusing that republicans think democrats want to "take their guns"... When they're just as violent.

How many more conflicts are we engaged in now compared to when bush was in office?

Did "honest Obama" close guantanamo?

And STFU republicans... You guys don't even pretend to care.

Edit : here-you'll like this. It vilifies bush properly but it also explains that Obama is "more of the same". I'll gladly list all of the Bush policies that Obama continued, if you like. And the ones he went even further with (like busting medicinal marijuana clinics)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/24/george-w-bushs-presidency-in-24-charts/

I can guarantee that we have substantially less ground troops in multiple countries occupying or fighting. And sure, Obama's DOJ busted medicinal marijuana clinics, but they don't do that now. And Obama didn't close Guantanamo because Congress didn't let him. Because the boogieman will show up if any of the prisoners end up on US soil.

That said, Obama is a socially liberal center-right politician.

No, BothSides™ aren't the same. One side is corrupt like all other political parties, and the other one is insane.

 

[Brian Stirling]

The spin to go back into Iraq started just weeks after 9/11 -- long before the fall of 2002. Many in the administration and still others outside of the administration were sent out to push the idea that Sadam was the real threat.

James Woolsey was on one of the talk shows, perhaps it was Larry King I just don't remember exactly, but I do remember this was the fall of 2001 and we had begun are involvement in Afghanistan and the interviewer was asking Woolsey about the progress in Afghanistan but he wasn't interested in that and instead kept talking about the need to go back to Iraq to deal with Sadam. My bull shit detector was going off big time as I listened to Woolsey keep changing the subject to Iraq. We had only begun our effort in Afghanistan and he was disinterested in it.

Woolsey was not alone as many of the neocons from the PNAC were similarly tasked with pushing the Iraq narrative. They cherry picked the intel and knowingly lied to the American public. The French laughed at our intel and frankly it bothers me that we were fed a line of shit while it was plain to many, including the French, that our intel was a croc.

Fast forward to a month or so ago and there were a number of that group including Turd Blossom once again pushing the narrative that Sadam was part of 9/11 and had WMD. It seems they are looking to latch onto Jeb and felt a need to play the revisionist game to insulate Jeb from the shame that was his brothers adimn. It wouldn't seem possible that they could manage that feat, but if Glen Beck can convince millions of drooling righties that Hitler was actually a lefty anything is possible with brain dead righties...


Brian

 

[ivwshane]

By all means tell me what I have wrong.

You'll be waiting a long time.

 

[mindmajick]

One side is corrupt like all other political parties, and the other one is insane.

OK. Now that's something i can agree with.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I can guarantee that we have substantially less ground troops in multiple countries occupying or fighting. And sure, Obama's DOJ busted medicinal marijuana clinics, but they don't do that now. And Obama didn't close Guantanamo because Congress didn't let him. Because the boogieman will show up if any of the prisoners end up on US soil.

That said, Obama is a socially liberal center-right politician.

No, BothSides™ aren't the same. One side is corrupt like all other political parties, and the other one is insane.

At least in California the feds continue to target dispensaries (especially larger ones like Harborside Health Center and Berkeley Patients Group).

Haven't run across info about the same actions in other states though. But the feds apparently think this family in Washington is bad news:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...l-marijuana-legalization-grow-trial/24321335/

and, in a bit of a catch 22 situation re the family:

"A federal judge won't allow a family of a medical marijuana patients from Washington state to defend themselves against drug trafficking charges by arguing their pot plants were for medical purposes."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/06/harvey-family-marijuana-court_n_5275806.html

At least the most dangerous/ridiculous of the charges have been beaten court.

 

[pcgeek11]

NVM

 

[trenchfoot]

In so many ways I like Jeb Bush. I like some of the things he had done for Florida while he was their governor.

In so many other ways I despise the ideology he represents, an ideology that somehow along the way got hijacked and perverted into an agenda that exclusively serves the very rich while dividing the rest of the nation along religious/atheistic and ethnic lines in order to keep the middle class and the poor "in their place" and not become a threat to their corruptive influence over our leaders in government.

So sad that Jeb has to tow the party line in order to get on the ticket. I'd seriously consider him if he ran as an independent and promised to heal and unify the nation, rather than be a stooge for those that are running our country without being elected to do it.

 

[sportage]

No one would vote for Jeb Bush simply because...
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its a Bush.
Jeb is just another Rand Paul, but with a wealthier family.
Jeb says nonsense crap that he has to deny or take back 24 hours later.
All of Jeb's BFF's are the same old GW BFF's.
And besides, I thought Dick Cheney wasn't allowed to run for a third term?

 

[trenchfoot]

No one would vote for Jeb Bush simply because...
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its a Bush.
Jeb is just another Rand Paul, but with a wealthier family.
Jeb says nonsense crap that he has to deny or take back 24 hours later.
All of Jeb's BFF's are the same old GW BFF's.
And besides, I thought Dick Cheney wasn't allowed to run for a third term?

Well, seeing as if he ran the presidency de facto from the second chair, I'm of the opinion that given the chance, he'd run the presidency out of office from his living room while waiting around for his sixth heart attack.

The guy is, simply put, a train wreck hoping to cause a chain reaction of more train wrecks just out of spite. His blatant attempts at re-writing history to put a spit shine on his legacy is disgustingly pathetic to say the least.

I hope one sunny day while he's recovering from another seizure he'll finally have an epiphany of sorts, snaps out of that exceptional state of denial he's in, fully realizes and accepts personal responsibility for the untold thousands of deaths that is directly attributed to his actions and for the wide ranging scope of destruction and mayhem he caused simply because he thought "he knew he was doing the right thing for the nation".

 

[1prophet]

What is truly sad is having to potentially choose between Bush or Clinton and the wedge issues while the country continues to spiral downward economically.

 

[boomerang]

Republican hater proselytizes against a Republican. Shocking.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Republican hater proselytizes against a Republican. Shocking.

But...but...Obama is going to throw Bush and his "criminal cabal" in jail any day now! ANY DAY NOW!!!!!

 

[rudeguy]

Just curious:

Did Hillary Clinton vote to approve the war?

 

[Genx87]

Just curious:

Did Hillary Clinton vote to approve the war?

Yes but the excuse is a Bush lied to her. Poor poor Hillary.

 

[PokerGuy]

lol Hiliarious. OP's inability to logically process information is amazing. So one should not even consider voting for Jeb because he would have authorized the war -- even though he didn't actually do so. However, we should vote for someone who not only "would have" authorized the war -- but actually did so. Brilliant!

Oh, and don't bother with the BS about what information poor Hillary was "spoon fed" (pretending she's a mushroom in the dark), there were plenty of people (myself included) who understood exactly what was going on, including most in her own party. Don't try to pretend now that she was just misled by the evil Bush, unless you want to accept that she was so incredibly stupid and naive that she was easily misled while most others in her party were not.

Funny stuff

 

[PokerGuy]

Yes but the excuse is a Bush lied to her. Poor poor Hillary.

Yep, she's just such a naive little flower, so easily misled by the evil cabal. That's the kind of leader we need. Err..... wait a second

 

[rudeguy]

So Jeb would:

Follow the previous administration's policy, follow the vote of Congress, follow the vote of the United Nations, follow the advice of the intelligence community and follow the advice of his advisers?

You mean instead of being a tyrannical leader who says he doesn't need Congress? The kind of leader who disregards the law? The kind of leader who kills Americans without a trial? The kind who ignores the people who say pulling our troops out of Iraq will lead to unrest and more war?

The fact that democrats still froth at the mouth over W is scary. The fact that they ignore all the intentional wrong doings of Obama is even scarier. If you do just a little bit of research on the Nazi party, this is exactly the kind of mindset of late 1930's Nazis. Seriously guys...look at what you are doing and look at how that kind of thinking has worked out in the past.

If left unchecked, you guys would lead our country into ruin.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yep. That was when Hillary Clinton was a Senator and, like most of the rest of Congress, knew only what his brother's administratoin spoon fed them.

Is he saying that, knowing what his cohorts knew, then, he would have committed the same crimes to mislead us into war in Iraq and every crime and act of stupidity that followed?

The stupid gene runs deep and dominant in this family. :hmm:

Jeb isn't stupid at all. He knows what his brother knew back then, that 9/11 meant the public could be misled into war and that the public will now accept justifications leading them to believe that they never were chumped. America isn't ready to cop to that, to man-up, and he knows it.

9/11 was the greatest political windfall since Pearl Harbor which the Bushistas fashioned into a bludgeon against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They showed ruthless & utterly unprincipled command of the art of propaganda & lies to achieve their pre-existing goals, one of which was the invasion of Iraq. Early on, long before 9/11, GWB supposedly told his cabinet to find a way to invade Iraq. 9/11 was the way.

Like Jeb said, if you want more of the same, vote for him.

 

[boomerang]

The fact that democrats still froth at the mouth over W is scary. The fact that they ignore all the intentional wrong doings of Obama is even scarier. If you do just a little bit of research on the Nazi party, this is exactly the kind of mindset of late 1930's Nazis. Seriously guys...look at what you are doing and look at how that kind of thinking has worked out in the past.

There will always be a percentage of wackos but what's truly concerning is the revisionist history that is taught in schools. Ignoring what actually occurred in favor of an agenda that the U.S. was and is bad. What do young empty minds absorb but what they are spoon fed? We've got a President right now who was taught in this manner and we're reaping the 'rewards' of that.

That's why from time to time I like to suggest to people that they get their children out of the public school system or into one that teaches actual history without an agenda behind it. We need to get our youth back on track.

 

[Jhhnn]

There will always be a percentage of wackos but what's truly concerning is the revisionist history that is taught in schools. Ignoring what actually occurred in favor of an agenda that the U.S. was and is bad. What do young empty minds absorb but what they are spoon fed? We've got a President right now who was taught in this manner and we're reaping the 'rewards' of that.

That's why from time to time I like to suggest to people that they get their children out of the public school system or into one that teaches actual history without an agenda behind it. We need to get our youth back on track.

Double down on the hate-um Obama routine as if Jeb isn't the one currently spouting revisionist history.

Oh, yeh- he went to the finest private schools, too.

The notion that the invasion of Iraq was an intelligence failure is absurd. It's what GWB wanted, and his minions were more than happy to give him what he needed to justify it.

 

[fskimospy]

There will always be a percentage of wackos but what's truly concerning is the revisionist history that is taught in schools. Ignoring what actually occurred in favor of an agenda that the U.S. was and is bad. What do young empty minds absorb but what they are spoon fed? We've got a President right now who was taught in this manner and we're reaping the 'rewards' of that.

That's why from time to time I like to suggest to people that they get their children out of the public school system or into one that teaches actual history without an agenda behind it. We need to get our youth back on track.

It's kind of awesome that you are so lacking in self awareness that you are complaining about liberals engaging in revisionist history in a thread about Jeb Bush engaging in revisionist history.

 

[glenn1]

Is anyone surprised? Jeb is also bringing along the clown car of fuckwits that pushed going into Iraq.

y'know, Iraq, the country that was the base of the 911 attackers....

Yeah, much better when you elect the Dems to start your ill-advised wars. When GOP starts a war 4k people die, when Dems do (say Vietnam) it's an order or magnitude higher. But please do explain how the Iraq War was somehow "worse" than Vietnam. You say "yellowcake," I say "Gulf of Tonkin."

 

[rudeguy]

Yeah, much better when you elect the Dems to start your ill-advised wars. When GOP starts a war 4k people die, when Dems do (say Vietnam) it's an order or magnitude higher. But please do explain how the Iraq War was somehow "worse" than Vietnam. You say "yellowcake," I say "Gulf of Tonkin."

I already did the math for you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2340103

6,088,003 American deaths from Democrat wars
668,716 American deaths from Republican wars

 

[fskimospy]

I already did the math for you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2340103

6,088,003 American deaths from Democrat wars
668,716 American deaths from Republican wars

Where on earth did you get the 6 million number from?

Edit: if you count the confederacy as Americans roughly as many American soldiers died in the Civil War as in all other American wars combined. This doesn't account for changes in population either, so in reality casualties as a proportion of population were much higher.

 

[rudeguy]

Where on earth did you get the 6 million number from?

My calculator when I totaled up the deaths.