Why my Mom thinks "No child left behind" is a bad idea.

[conjur]

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

She is very upset about the "No child left behind" program. This is why;

No child left behind requires regular standardized testing to fascilitate an accountability mechanism.

The N.C.L.B. ends up forcing Teachers to teach to a test. They are given no freedom to teach creatively or to adapt their lesson plans themselves.

Their ability to be effective through creativity is destroyed.

Teachers will become less and less enthusistic as they are , annualy, forced to teach the same standardized material through standardized teaching methods.

On N.C.L.B teachers CAN receive Bonus's and Raises based directly on the test scores. For teachers in many situations, (resource students for example), acheiving regular overall positive scores on these tests is impossible.

This plan basically destroys many teachers incentive to teach. They are turned into mindless robots who teach directly from a book for a specific test.


Just a teacher's opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter ?

My sister works with Exceptional Needs Children in the local school system here. She's been doing it for years. NCLB comes around and she hates it. So does every other teacher she knows.

They are required to give the same tests to the students who lack the mental capacity to score at the same levels as normal children. This requires more of her time to coach these kids to take this test. Schools that fail to do so suffer accordingly.

It's an unfair punishment on our school systems.

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Interesting. I needed a topic for an imagination essay. Think I found it

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

:laugh:

I was wondering when somebody else would call that.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

And yet I'm the one being accused of bashing "the OP's mother"...

CsG

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

yea the open case on whether or not Polm can spell has been closed !

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

yea the open case on whether or not Polm can spell has been closed !

Teached --> taught is more of a grammar thing.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

Case closed.

yea the open case on whether or not Polm can spell has been closed !

Teached --> taught is more of a grammar thing.

I typed a "d" instead of an "s" (gimme a break, they are right next to each other) , not an "eached" instead of an "aught".

 

[ReiAyanami]

every choice in life can be answered with a bubble and a #2 pencil

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

She is very upset about the "No child left behind" program. This is why;

No child left behind requires regular standardized testing to fascilitate an accountability mechanism.

The N.C.L.B. ends up forcing Teachers to teach to a test. They are given no freedom to teach creatively or to adapt their lesson plans themselves.

Their ability to be effective through creativity is destroyed.

Teachers will become less and less enthusistic as they are , annualy, forced to teach the same standardized material through standardized teaching methods.

On N.C.L.B teachers CAN receive Bonus's and Raises based directly on the test scores. For teachers in many situations, (resource students for example), acheiving regular overall positive scores on these tests is impossible.

This plan basically destroys many teachers incentive to teach. They are turned into mindless robots who teach directly from a book for a specific test.


Just a teacher's opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter ?

My sister works with Exceptional Needs Children in the local school system here. She's been doing it for years. NCLB comes around and she hates it. So does every other teacher she knows.

They are required to give the same tests to the students who lack the mental capacity to score at the same levels as normal children. This requires more of her time to coach these kids to take this test. Schools that fail to do so suffer accordingly.

It's an unfair punishment on our school systems.

This is about the only "issue" I have with NCLB -because it doesn't force the system to change how "special needs" kids are dealt with so it lumps them all in with the "mainstream". Now as to the fix? Test them all, but make sure those that are FULL special needs aren't figured into the tally. This however does leave room for those that will return to the "mainstream" will be counted and assessed on the same level as their peers. (this assumes we keep the failed school system structure we currently have).

However the easiest way to take care of this issue is to have a progress based school system. Sure - you won't always be with the same age kids - but you will be with the same level off learning. That way - when you get to these tests - you either pass or you don't for each subject. If you pass one portion(math) - you don't have to redo it - even if you fail a different portion(reading). See how simple that is? Ofcourse that would toss our current system onto it's head....so it won't be implemented - too many entrenched interest groups...

CsG

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
When more parents take active roles in their childrens education then the system will work. Until then no special program or plan devised by anybody will work.

Do you ever get tired of being right?
As a matter of fact, why don't you run for office? I'll vote for you.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
When more parents take active roles in their childrens education then the system will work. Until then no special program or plan devised by anybody will work.

True, this is a necessary though not sufficient prerequisite.

We also need to reverse the court decisions that make disciplining students so difficult.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
When more parents take active roles in their childrens education then the system will work. Until then no special program or plan devised by anybody will work.

Well, that kinda falls under that big "Well, duh!" umbrella, now doesn't it?

So what's the answer to the fact that parents aren't taking as active a role as they used to or as they should be? I know I'm doing my part with my kids. Should the goverment "force" other parents to seemingly care about and participate in their kid's education as I do with mine? Of course not, as it is pointed out in these forums repeatedly, the government should not be in the habit of legislating its 'values' upon its citizens.

So what's the answer? No offense, but it's pretty easy to dole out sage advice about how things should be or where the problems lie, but the real trick is finding someone who can actually address the issue and volunteer workable solutions. That's the kind of people who are in short supply, yet are needed desperately.

Maybe our schools need to become segregated - not by race, but by "willingness" to learn. Of course, everyone will want thier kids to be in the best classes, so there might have to be some demonstratable 'parental involvement level' criteria. But what about the kids who have single parents who can't be as involved as required, but their kid is very self-directed and motivated. Should the kid be thrown into the "destined for manual labor or food service" class because thier parent(s) are very busy? Of course not.

It's a very intriguing problem and one that I've spend some time thinking about previously. Maybe it's time to look at this again. My mom (an elementary teacher) is visiting for Thanksgiving and maybe I could bounce some ideas off her.

 

[judasmachine]

If some of my teachers hadn't been creative, and gone out of the boundries sometimes, I would have never become as interested in science, history, and how the world really works. The state shouldn't dictate how children are taught, the state has no right.

Besides, not all children learn in the same manner, I always scored in the top percentile on the state tests, but just listening to the teacher drone on about mundane subjects bored me to tears. Many times I would cut class, just because I knew it was the same thing over and over again. I later in high school had teachers that went above and beyond the call, that got me interested in school again. I do have a rather rare personality type (INFP) which pretty much dictates how I learn, and it isn't what helps most people learn. It is my belief that teachers (much to their dismay) have to teach to the lowest common denominator. Us here at AT P&N are more than likely a little more intelligent than the average, as geeks are usually pretty savvy types. But some of us do not need to be taught the same thing every day and every year, just because we share the classroom with idiots, and lower IQs.

Here is a little reference to what I am talking about.

 

[Rogue]

Here's my opinion. In the public school system, as large as it is and as varied as the student body is, there simply MUST be standards of education and standard knowledge that kids leaving those institutions should absolutely know. As a trainer for a long time I'm here to tell you that you can teach to standard and still own the training. At my previous employer we had standardized training standards that employees had to adhere to and yet every single trainer was extremely varied in the way they came across, but the end result was that everyone knew the same REQUIRED material when they left.

Now, post secondary educational institutions are where education should be as open and free as anyone wants it to be, because people are paying for that themselves. To me it is unacceptable that a student from Tennessee should be able to say things like, " My Mom teached 2nd grade" while somewhere else they use proper grammar and punctuation and are held to that standard. Public education should be the basic education required for anyone and should therefore be standardized. To simply sit back and say, "It doesn't work" is setting up the process for failure. There will always be a way to customize or add to the standard given, always. It's a matter of accepting it and moving forward, something most of these teachers I hear espousing this rhetoric have yet to do I think.

 

[piasabird]

Too much credence is given to test scores. Test scores are often related to the amount of involvement in the child's education by the parents. It can probably also be realated to economic stability and other factors. Anyone wishing for better testscores is going to have to start in the homes of the students. If the parents arent motivated by education, then it is hard for the student to be motivated to succeed in school.

A student has to beleive they can succeed in school and that the success in school will actually be to their benefit. If everyone they see around them is of a low education level they may not have a good role model to emulate.

 

[ReiAyanami]

Bush believes leaving your mom's child behind is not such a bad idea.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dissipate
I think your mom needs to quit her job and get off the taxpayer dole. Who cares about the "No Child Left Behind Act." The truth of the matter is your mother is participating in a government racket of epic proportions.

:roll:
Welfare is the taxpayer dole. Corporate subsidies are the taxpayer dole. Public education is necessary to ensure an informed, educated electorate, and is crucial to the stability of any representative form of government.

I agree. You are correct, public education is crucial to the "stablity" of the current plutocracy. How else could the Establishment sell their system to millions of kids?

 

[Isla]

I am a teacher at an A+ school that attracts the best teachers in the county. We have awesome community support. And yet not a single on of my colleagues thinks NCLB is a good idea.

Mostly I think it is amusing how laymen will argue for it, when they don't know the realities of teaching every day.

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

She is very upset about the "No child left behind" program. This is why;

No child left behind requires regular standardized testing to fascilitate an accountability mechanism.

The N.C.L.B. ends up forcing Teachers to teach to a test. They are given no freedom to teach creatively or to adapt their lesson plans themselves.

Their ability to be effective through creativity is destroyed.

Teachers will become less and less enthusistic as they are , annualy, forced to teach the same standardized material through standardized teaching methods.

On N.C.L.B teachers CAN receive Bonus's and Raises based directly on the test scores. For teachers in many situations, (resource students for example), acheiving regular overall positive scores on these tests is impossible.

This plan basically destroys many teachers incentive to teach. They are turned into mindless robots who teach directly from a book for a specific test.


Just a teacher's opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter ?

My sister works with Exceptional Needs Children in the local school system here. She's been doing it for years. NCLB comes around and she hates it. So does every other teacher she knows.

They are required to give the same tests to the students who lack the mental capacity to score at the same levels as normal children. This requires more of her time to coach these kids to take this test. Schools that fail to do so suffer accordingly.

It's an unfair punishment on our school systems.

VERY WELL PUT.

<certified regular ed and special ed

 

[Isla]

BTW, some of us suspect it is a way to eventually privatize the school system.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: polm
My Mom teached 2nd grade here in lovely Tennessee.

She is very upset about the "No child left behind" program. This is why;

No child left behind requires regular standardized testing to fascilitate an accountability mechanism.

The N.C.L.B. ends up forcing Teachers to teach to a test. They are given no freedom to teach creatively or to adapt their lesson plans themselves.

Their ability to be effective through creativity is destroyed.

Teachers will become less and less enthusistic as they are , annualy, forced to teach the same standardized material through standardized teaching methods.

On N.C.L.B teachers CAN receive Bonus's and Raises based directly on the test scores. For teachers in many situations, (resource students for example), acheiving regular overall positive scores on these tests is impossible.

This plan basically destroys many teachers incentive to teach. They are turned into mindless robots who teach directly from a book for a specific test.


Just a teacher's opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter ?

My sister works with Exceptional Needs Children in the local school system here. She's been doing it for years. NCLB comes around and she hates it. So does every other teacher she knows.

They are required to give the same tests to the students who lack the mental capacity to score at the same levels as normal children. This requires more of her time to coach these kids to take this test. Schools that fail to do so suffer accordingly.

It's an unfair punishment on our school systems.

This is about the only "issue" I have with NCLB -because it doesn't force the system to change how "special needs" kids are dealt with so it lumps them all in with the "mainstream". Now as to the fix? Test them all, but make sure those that are FULL special needs aren't figured into the tally. This however does leave room for those that will return to the "mainstream" will be counted and assessed on the same level as their peers. (this assumes we keep the failed school system structure we currently have).

However the easiest way to take care of this issue is to have a progress based school system. Sure - you won't always be with the same age kids - but you will be with the same level off learning. That way - when you get to these tests - you either pass or you don't for each subject. If you pass one portion(math) - you don't have to redo it - even if you fail a different portion(reading). See how simple that is? Ofcourse that would toss our current system onto it's head....so it won't be implemented - too many entrenched interest groups...

CsG

Have to be careful with that latter proposal. If a child falls too far behind in age group, they tend to drop out.

 

[Isla]

One of the huge problems with the tests in FL (FCAT) is that each year, a different group of children is tested.

So you aren't tracking progress at all. You are simply testing one group of children... and then another, and then another. Think of all the potential factors that could effect each group! One year, your school could have a little baby boom of geniuses, and the next year test a pocket of less than averages. Comparing the scores from year to year IS literally apples to oranges.

What is that supposed to improve?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Isla
I am a teacher at an A+ school that attracts the best teachers in the county. We have awesome community support. And yet not a single on of my colleagues thinks NCLB is a good idea.

Mostly I think it is amusing how laymen will argue for it, when they don't know the realities of teaching every day.

Then why don't the teachers and the NEA get together and get rid of NCLB? Protest to your Senators and Congress-critters. Write letters. (give up on the singing) Get the parents involved and informed. Show that it doesn't work. Show that it is harmful or that it is a waste, supported by research, statistics and other evidence. You guys are teachers for Pete's sake. Show us that education matters! If everyone involved believes that it doesn't work, what's the holdup? Most of you guys get 3 months off a year - use that time to protest! (sorry Mom!)

 

[Taejin]

Lol. No Child Left Behind is being implemented by a man who was Left Behind in School. How would someone so far down at the bottom even be qualified to suggest that a program like this be implemented..haha.