Why is the Holocaust so "special"?

[techs]

It seems all the rage lately to deny the Holocaust occured.
With mans inhumanity giving us other great losses of life why should the Holocaust be considered as unique or more important than any other?
After all didn't Stalins policies kill more millions in the Soviet Union?
The uniqueness of the Holocaust lies in its particular circumstances.
To begin with the Holocaust occured in the country that many considered to be the most enlightened and certainly the best educated in the world. Despite the German economy and national instability post WW1 they had almost universal literacy. Their universities were world leaders. In fact modern physics was essentially developed in Germany in the 1920's.
Germany was also the most egalitarian country in Europe, which in the 1930's was considered the center of civilization. In Germany Jews could hold civil service jobs, something they could do almost no place else. They could be university professors in great numbers.
So the first unique feature of the Holocaust is it happened in perhaps the most "advanced and enlightened" country in the world. And it happened to a group of people who had been discriminated against greatly in almost every other country but not in Germany.
Another unique feature of the Holocaust was the application of industrial technology to murder. This was no vodka induced pogrom. This was a 9-5 job of machine murder. And the people carrying it out did so with few reservations. The lesson of how easy it was to get good people to murder there neighbors is a unique lesson of the Holocaust.
The Holocaust also showed us how a group of people could be singled out with no proof nor evidence that they endangered society and that a majority of people could be convinced they were dangerous and then convinced they were subhuman.
It is these special circumstances that make the Holocaust unique. Not the number of people killed, not that the largest single group were Jews, it was that the most enlightened country could relatively easily turn to murdering monsters.
And that is why we should all remember that the Holocaust was not something that happened once a long time ago but that in Man there is a darkness that must be prevented from seeing the light of day, at all costs.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[glenn1]

Good post. If you look at it in strictly quantity then sure, it's not as bad as Stalin's purgues, Mao's "great leap forward" or Pol Pot's killing fields. Still, that's not the point. If anything, it's more horrifying than those (or even typical ethnic cleansings going on now in places like Rwanda, etc) because it was so completely pointless. It didn't even have the intelletual fig leaf of being for a higher cause. While it's an amazing exercise in double-think to be sure that sending millions to a Siberian slave labor camp, or de-populating Cambodia's cities in pursuit of an agrarian paradise were good ideas, it at least had an identifiable goal (however misguided). Ditto for hacking up a few thousand Hutus or Tutsis who you see as your mortal enemy and would kill you given the chance. The Holocaust doesn't even offer that, it had nothing, no higher goal than death for death's sake.

 

[TallBill]

Why dont you post your opinions in the thread that sparked your opinion? Creating a new thread every time is rediculous.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Good post.

Yes.

I still think Stalin and his minions deserve a special place in hell w/ Hitler and his minions. Starving all of the Ukraine in the early 1930's to death because he could and murdering repatriated Russian POW's only because they were captured by the Nazi's (and many other atrocities) is just as evil.

Edit for grammar

 

[her209]

What about the Japanese internment camps. No one ever mentions those. How about the indian "reservations"?

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: her209
What about the Japanese internment camps. No one ever mentions those.

They get mentioned A LOT, actually. Definetely wrong, but no gas chambers, either.

 

[WelshBloke]

My brain only goes up to total horror and hitler, pol pot, mao stalin et al all get there.

I dont think you can say one is 'worse' than another.

They all killed innocent people on massive scales and terrorised entire populations.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: Taggart

Originally posted by: her209
What about the Japanese internment camps. No one ever mentions those.

They get mentioned A LOT, actually. Definetely wrong, but no gas chambers, either.

rape of naking and that armenia thing is worse...

 

[Moonbeam]

Jews were Hitler's Liberals.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jews were Hitler's Liberals.

Actually liberals were Hitler's liberals.

Thanks for playing the partisan hack-attack game though!

 

[Strk]

Glenn1, Cambodia was around 1.7 million.

Which is worse? It's hard to say once the bodies start to pile up. They're all tragic and should all be taken equally seriously otherwise it only leaves room for more to occur. The best way to avoid it from happening is being well aware of those that did and how easily they occurred.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jews were Hitler's Liberals.

Actually liberals were Hitler's liberals.

Thanks for playing the partisan hack-attack game though!

Actually, fascism is far-right, but once you get to that point, it's not a whole lot different than communism.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jews were Hitler's Liberals.

Actually liberals were Hitler's liberals.

Thanks for playing the partisan hack-attack game though!

Actually, fascism is far-right, but once you get to that point, it's not a whole lot different than communism.

When the left and the right go too far in either direction - somehow they end up coming together in very bad ways...

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jews were Hitler's Liberals.

Actually liberals were Hitler's liberals.

Thanks for playing the partisan hack-attack game though!

Actually, fascism is far-right, but once you get to that point, it's not a whole lot different than communism.

Eh. Economically speaking,

Communism = state ownership of the means of production.

Facism = state control of the means of production.

 

[jackschmittusa]

The Holocaust gets special mention because it was genocide. It was aimed at particular "races" of people (Jews, Gypsies). Attempts to exterminate groups of people labeled as inferior is considered particularly heinous.

I have always found it interesting that Hitler and his henchmen could stand before crowds of thousands and extoll the superiority of the Arian Race. You know, the short guy with dark hair and eyes, the fat dopehead, the guy with coke bottle-bottom glasses, etc..

 

[Agrooreo]

Suprised no one alse picked up and ran with the indian reservations/ smallpox comment.

Either way, nice post.

 

[sandorski]

Yup. It doesn't matter which atrocity was worse, the Holocaust took tacit approval by a seemingly enlightened population. This wasn't the simple act of a Madman who went on a Rampage, it was how People enthusiastically gave power to a Madman and how those People willingly turned a blind eye towards atrocity. It shows that not only are Madmen to be feared, but even ourselves should be feared. The German People felt a guilt that others involved in similar acts never feel, that's because Germans understood their part in the Holocaust, they recognized their own Responsibility.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
The Holocaust gets special mention because it was genocide. It was aimed at particular "races" of people (Jews, Gypsies). Attempts to exterminate groups of people labeled as inferior is considered particularly heinous.

I have always found it interesting that Hitler and his henchmen could stand before crowds of thousands and extoll the superiority of the Arian Race. You know, the short guy with dark hair and eyes, the fat dopehead, the guy with coke bottle-bottom glasses, etc..

All the other atrocities mentioned in this thread were genocide as well. What stands the Holocaust apart was that it was the creation of death as an industry. An entire population of Jews, gypsies, "enemies of the Reich" were sent to their deaths as if they were cattle. To implement the ideals of Ford with his production line and apply it to the extinction of a human race is utter evil. That is why the holocaust gets special mention.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup. It doesn't matter which atrocity was worse, the Holocaust took tacit approval by a seemingly enlightened population. This wasn't the simple act of a Madman who went on a Rampage, it was how People enthusiastically gave power to a Madman and how those People willingly turned a blind eye towards atrocity. It shows that not only are Madmen to be feared, but even ourselves should be feared. The German People felt a guilt that others involved in similar acts never feel, that's because Germans understood their part in the Holocaust, they recognized their own Responsibility.

Actually the german people knew it was happrining and turned a blind eye to it.
In order to get the german people to own up to it the Allied forces forced the germasn who were living around the death camps to go to the death camps to see first hand...
Its interesting you say the german people felt guilt yet if you go visit germany and you are Jeweish or Polish or even Czech you will not feel welcomed at all- why?

Becuase of guilt? I think not...

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
My brain only goes up to total horror and hitler, pol pot, mao stalin et al all get there.

I dont think you can say one is 'worse' than another.

They all killed innocent people on massive scales and terrorised entire populations.

I don't think this is about Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, it's about the ordinary citizens' people we think of as 'basically good' and how easily they became involved in exterminating their fellow human beings.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
My brain only goes up to total horror and hitler, pol pot, mao stalin et al all get there.

I dont think you can say one is 'worse' than another.

They all killed innocent people on massive scales and terrorised entire populations.

I don't think this is about Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, it's about the ordinary citizens' people we think of as 'basically good' and how easily they became involved in exterminating their fellow human beings.

I think Stalin attained absolute power through his use of the police state? I don't think everyday Russians were complicit to his crimes like Germans were to the Nazis.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
My brain only goes up to total horror and hitler, pol pot, mao stalin et al all get there.

I dont think you can say one is 'worse' than another.

They all killed innocent people on massive scales and terrorised entire populations.

I don't think this is about Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, it's about the ordinary citizens' people we think of as 'basically good' and how easily they became involved in exterminating their fellow human beings.

I agree.

I was just making the point that you cant really rate mass killings on those scales as being better or worse than others. They were all horriffic and shame us all as human beings.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Attempts to exterminate groups of people labeled as inferior is considered particularly heinous.

I may be misremembering my history, but as I recall, Hitler singled out the Jews not because he thought they were inferior, but because he considered them to be the opposite: too smart, too accomplished, and too much of a threat to the "superiority" of the Arian race.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Attempts to exterminate groups of people labeled as inferior is considered particularly heinous.

I may be misremembering my history, but as I recall, Hitler singled out the Jews not because he thought they were inferior, but because he considered them to be the opposite: too smart, too accomplished, and too much of a threat to the "superiority" of the Arian race.

He thought they were inferior and everything you mentioned. He definetely believed in a global Jewish conspiracy. They were keeping Aryans 'down.'

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup. It doesn't matter which atrocity was worse, the Holocaust took tacit approval by a seemingly enlightened population. This wasn't the simple act of a Madman who went on a Rampage, it was how People enthusiastically gave power to a Madman and how those People willingly turned a blind eye towards atrocity. It shows that not only are Madmen to be feared, but even ourselves should be feared. The German People felt a guilt that others involved in similar acts never feel, that's because Germans understood their part in the Holocaust, they recognized their own Responsibility.

Actually the german people knew it was happrining and turned a blind eye to it.
In order to get the german people to own up to it the Allied forces forced the germasn who were living around the death camps to go to the death camps to see first hand...
Its interesting you say the german people felt guilt yet if you go visit germany and you are Jeweish or Polish or even Czech you will not feel welcomed at all- why?

Becuase of guilt? I think not...

Germans knew part of what was going on. They saw and welcomed Jews being removed from their midst, but it was not public knowledge what the fate of the Jews was. There were some rumours, but for the most part the common German had no idea.