Why is the FDA using swat teams on raw milk?

[Genx87]

And the cops can put suspected murderers in jail, and the judge doesn't have to set bail.
Doesn't violate due process.

Safety of the public comes first.

How does shutting down business that isnt producing contaminated food benefit public safety?

 

[AreaCode707]

And the cops can put suspected murderers in jail, and the judge doesn't have to set bail.
Doesn't violate due process.

Safety of the public comes first.

Safety measured how? We have established that hard aged cheeses cannot carry listeriosis but the FDA forced a recall and seized their product for possible listeria contamination anyway?

Give a straight answer to one question posed to you in this thread instead of starting more tangents.

Based on every safety standard out there, the hard aged cheeses on the market were no risk.
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/listeria.html

Eat hard cheeses instead of soft cheeses: The CDC has recommended that pregnant women avoid soft cheeses such as feta, Brie, Camembert, blue-veined cheeses and Mexican style cheeses such as queso fresco, queso blanco and panela that do not state they are pasteurized.
Hard cheeses such as cheddar and semi-soft cheeses such as mozzarella are safe to consume. Pasteurized processed cheese slices and spreads such as cream cheese and cottage cheese can also be safely consumed. The most important thing to do is read the labels!

So why do you support the FDA recalling a cheese that, by definition, could not have been contaminated?

 

[linuxboy]

And the cops can put suspected murderers in jail, and the judge doesn't have to set bail.
Doesn't violate due process.

Safety of the public comes first.

Legal rules for following criminal procedures DO NOT APPLY when the FDA takes action. The FDA's own rules apply. It's a different system, an administrative system of compliance, because they're been given broad administrative powers. And those rules are always subject to the interpretation of the field agent. There have been cases where an agent has ordered the dumping of tankers of milk only to have the FDA go "oops. shouldn't have done that". Without compensation.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Just make sure not to produce too much food.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Filburn

Doesn't apply if you're producing food that's banned from interstate commerce.

 

[DominionSeraph]

So why do you support the FDA recalling a cheese that, by definition, could not have been contaminated?

Methinks you don't know what "by definition" means.

 

[linuxboy]

Good on you for trolling the thread, mate

 

[linuxboy]

Doesn't apply if you're producing food that's banned from interstate commerce.

Actually, that's not a given. That issue has never been decided by the courts.

 

[AreaCode707]

Methinks you don't know what "by definition" means.

According to the CDC, it is not possible for a hard aged cheese to carry the listeria bacteria. Listeria cannot exist in the microbiological makeup of a hard aged cheese. Therefore, BY DEFINITION, these cheeses cannot be contaminated.

You also just refused to answer the question and started another tangent. If you seriously want to participate in this debate, answer a question directly.

 

[DominionSeraph]

We own a damn farm. And we cannot invite a friend over for a meal using the food we produce and eat every day because it would put us in legal violation.

And you're not prevented from eating it yourself, thus supporting that my recommendation is in fact a remedy.

 

[AreaCode707]

And you're not prevented from eating it yourself, thus supporting that my recommendation is in fact a remedy.

You also just refused to answer the question and started another tangent. If you seriously want to participate in this debate, answer a question directly.

 

[linuxboy]

And you're not prevented from eating it yourself, thus supporting that my recommendation is in fact a remedy.

Here's a hypothetical where it would be illegal.

- Wife has a few goats or a cow, milks the cow.
- Wife works, bought the animal with her own money, in a non-community-property state, and holds title to the animal as her separate estate, and does all upkeep and maintenance
- Wife milks the animals, and puts it in the fridge
- Kids and husband drink milk

Under this arrangement, they would be consuming milk illegally, and the wife could go to jail.

It is not a remedy when you need a lawyer to write contracts in order to feed your family.

 

[BoberFett]

Their role should be purely informational. When they go beyond education, and start dictating what consenting adults consume, they've overstepped their authority, and intrude on the liberty of the people they work for.

Bingo.

I'm all for government inspection, mandating truth in labeling, ensuring an even transaction between two uneven parties. But government telling adults how to live is the antithesis of freedom. It's disgusting that people can't recognize that.

Every time someone says "there oughta be a law" that person should be flogged publicly.

 

[linuxboy]

Hmm, good idea. We ought to have a law... to legalize flogging

 

[zinfamous]

Oh, here comes Dominion Seraph, further displaying he/she never knows wtf they are talking about.

color me surprised.

 

[zinfamous]

LOL, the argument just went over your head.

If I want to eat Martian soil, do the restrictions that the Universe places on me in regards to obtaining it violate my rights? No, because I have no fundamental right to consume Martian soil. So, restrictions of access are allowed. So, if the FDA places hurdles to you obtaining certain foods, it also does not violate your rights, for you have no fundamental right to have access to them.

The government can regulate commerce. Don't like that interfering with your food choices? Buy a farm.

wow, pony boy sounds just like the FDA argument in the court case posted earlier

"Historical precedence shows that no person has any fundamental right to consume whatever food they wish."

what the holy fuck.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Its a farce just like the SEC and DHS......This is big government wanting to control every aspect of everything.

 

[DominionSeraph]

According to the CDC, it is not possible for a hard aged cheese to carry the listeria bacteria. The microbiological makeup of a hard aged cheese cannot include listeria. Therefore, BY DEFINITION, these cheeses cannot be contaminated.

LOL, you're still completely clueless as to what "by definition" means.
It's not a metaphor. It actually means, "by definition."

Now learn the difference between a priori and a posteriori knowledge.

If you seriously want to participate in this debate, answer a question directly.

You couldn't think your way through a tautology as it stands. There's no point going into specifics when your framework is shit. That needs to be remedied first.
Once you've learned how to think logically, then we can actually put that logic to use.

 

[BoberFett]

Sure is tin-foil hat in here.

That's a good little Democrat. Government is there to protect you from the evils of food. Without the government to violently crush small farmers, you'd be dead by now.

 

[sao123]

Were these salmonella outbreaks a result of these farmers selling unpastuerized milk?

And the license issue is rather silly. This guy had been selling this for 6 years. Were there any complaints as the safety of his milk? If not, then what does paying a license fee bring to the table? I think people get the wrong idea that being licensed means you are safe. It just means you applied for, paid, and possibly passed an inspection at some point.

funny you should ask that... just today:
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/11216/1165184-100.stm

10 now sickened by milk from Beaver County dairy
Thursday, August 04, 2011
The Associated Press
State health officials say 10 people have been sickened by bacteria-tainted milk from a Beaver County dairy.
Officials with the Brunton Dairy in Aliquippa say they're cooperating with the Pennsylvania Department of Health investigation and are hoping to restart milk production once the problem is isolated.
Health officials updated The Associated Press on Thursday, saying a total of five men and five women from Allegheny and Beaver counties have been sickened by the Yersinia bacteria. Those affected range in age from 1 to 75.
The bacteria can cause fever, abdominal pain and diarrhea four to seven days after exposure to it. The symptoms can then last from one to three weeks and, in rare cases, the bacteria can enter the bloodstream and cause other complications.

 

[linuxboy]

Now learn the difference between a priori and a posteriori knowledge.

Actually, a priori, because of how bacteria interact with cheese, and because of how cheese rinds develop, a properly aged, hard cheese cannot have listeria. It's scientifically impossible. They all die, even if at some point the cheese was contaminated. Meaning just as I said, you don't even need a test. The only way it can be contaminated is somehow through handling or packaging.

 

[ElFenix]

thank you government for allowing me to eat this cheese.

 

[BoberFett]

Its a farce just like the SEC and DHS......This is big government wanting to control every aspect of everything.

Yep, and little wannabe fascists like this Japanimation loving fool lap it up.

 

[AreaCode707]

LOL, you're still completely clueless as to what "by definition" means.
It's not a metaphor. It actually means, "by definition."

Now learn the difference between a priori and a posteriori knowledge.

You don't know jack shit about cheesemaking, do you.

I am saying, "By definition, a human being cannot live by breathing chlorine gas."
You are saying, "You don't understand what by definition means!"
I am saying, "Breathing in chlorine gas means you die, therefore you are not living. So BY DEFINITION a living human being cannot live by breathing gas because they would not be alive."

Seriously, that is the conversation we are having here.

You couldn't think your way through a tautology as it stands. There's no point going into specifics when your framework is shit. That needs to be remedied first.
Once you've learned how to think logically, then we can actually put that logic to use.

You also just refused to answer the question and started another tangent. If you seriously want to participate in this debate, answer a question directly.

 

[Cogman]

How does shutting down business that isnt producing contaminated food benefit public safety?

Shut up! How dare you question big brother!

 

[zinfamous]

LOL, you're still completely clueless as to what "by definition" means.
It's not a metaphor. It actually means, "by definition."

Now learn the difference between a priori and a posteriori knowledge.



You couldn't think your way through a tautology as it stands. There's no point going into specifics when your framework is shit. That needs to be remedied first.
Once you've learned how to think logically, then we can actually put that logic to use.

you are a troll of epic proportions.

I have no idea why you are allowed to continue posting when you do nothing but insult and ignore every god damn question by spouting nonsense in retort.

We know that you have no clue what you are talking about. It's hilarious.
You're no biologist. you're no scientist, for sure.

You're a half-educated twit with a thesaurus, stroking his/her stuffed ponies in his/her mother's basement.
Go back to your ponies.