Originally posted by: DerekWilson
this is no different than any other ban we've lifted for members who were banned before public guidelines and moderation.
all permabans that have been properly instated for guideline violations since the middle of last year will NEVER be repealed.
I will certainly listen to someone who might say they've been banned unfairly under the current system, and because there are now guidelines in place I can make that determination.
This is not possible to do with bans instated before the changes. Thus we have been open to old members returning for a second chance. Lifting these bans is at our discretion. If members blow that chance then that's it.
if Rollo had done what he did before under the current system he would never get a second chance.
If any member we allowed back who did anything that violated any of our current guidelines violated the same guideline now they would not have gotten a second chance.
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But the fact is that AT made the decision to allow him to return just as we decided to allow other banned members to return.
Our probationary allowances in place state that he needs to disclose his relationship with NVIDIA. Many people have said they are unsatisfied with the clarity of his sig. As soon as I get done posting this, his sig will be changed to read:
As an NVIDIA Focus Group member, I am given free graphics cards and motherboards by NVIDIA Corp.
This will be the first thing in his sig and it will be bolded. This is accurate and complete.
To fill you guys in, members of the NVIDIA Focus Group evaluate software, hardware, etc. and provide NVIDIA feedback for the purpose of making their products better. This is in no way a viral marketing group. In fact, NVIDIA now requires focus group members identify themselves on forums and they actively discourage members from trying to sell nvidia products or lie in order to promote nvidia. Shilling damages NVIDIA's image, and they in no way support or encourage it. This is not what Rollo is telling us, this is straight from NVIDIA. We would never knowingly allow any viral marketer to come here and post. We will not encourage shilling.
I am confident that Rollo could post on how amazing the 3870x2 is without any kind of threat to his focus group work. NVIDIA does not expect or even want Rollo to post anything in particular about nvidia products. They don't monitor or require anything of his communications.
Rollo is not compensated to advocate for NVIDIA.
Whether or not he once was through AEG is a whole other issue. Honestly, it doesn't matter whether or not AEG did implement viral marketing schemes. Rollo lied about his involvement with them to the mods and people were banned for calling him out on something he denied that was true. He promoted NVIDIA products without fully disclosing his relationship to AEG or to NVIDIA.
But all that is in the past. Whether you think he was compensated to shill for NVIDIA in the past, this could no longer be the case based on his relationship with NVIDIA.
The reason we are requiring Rollo to disclose a relationship with NVIDIA that has nothing to do with PR, shilling, or selling products is because of his past. The condition of his return is full disclosure on all the aspects of his relationship with NVIDIA regardless of the fact that those relationships do not inherently mean he will be biased.
But this is again a special situation. Those who where here feel strongly that any relationship Rollo has with NVIDIA will imply a bias towards them because of how adamantly Rollo denied his relationships in the past and because of how he treated the membership who were only trying to protect themselves.
We are not willing to state unequivocally that Rollo is biased, but we realize that it would be wise to allude to a potential bias based on the situation.
therefore, henceforth shall Rollo be known as nRollo ... effective as soon as he gets back to me via PM or email so that I'm sure he knows his username is changing.
The mods and I feel this does a good job of relating to anyone at all familiar with graphics that Rollo has an NVIDIA association and people will be able to judge his words accordingly whether they have sigs turned off or not or are familiar with his past or not.
We debated giving him a new title, but decided against that as we feel titles are better suited as rewards for members rather than deterrents. We reserve the right to change that policy in the future, but for now that is where we stand.
Rollo is not here because of AnandTech's relationship with NVIDIA. We have long held the philosophy that every hardware maker can suck it if they think they can push us around with anything. AnandTech has been through times where we've been denied hardware. We've had people pull ad campaigns. We
DO NOT EVER let anything like that affect anything we do. If we aren't provided hardware we go out and buy it. If one manufacturer pulls an ad campaign, someone else will run one. No company has any leverage over AnandTech of any kind. Period. No matter what has been said about corruption in the industry, I am proud to be part of a company that has never and will never take part in any of that bullshit.
NVIDIA did not *want* Rollo to come back; they passed along to us his desire to return and asked us if we cared. As many have pointed out -- if NVIDIA wanted someone to promote them they could pick from any of thousands of other people. But the fact is that Rollo is not here to promote NVIDIA at all. If that was the case in the past, that's one thing, but it IS NOT the case now.
Now on to Creig's post ...
No matter what happened in the past, there is nothing Rollo needs to say to keep his free hardware rolling in.
while you may be right that online review sites receive hardware from many sources, you would be wrong if you thought all online review sites were unbiased. Rollo's defense is a poor one, especially considering issues like the ones surrounding Tom's Hardware and Gamespot.
but your assertion is just as invalid -- just because someone gives me something does not inherently mean i am going to be biased towards them.
none of this matters -- we are all personally responsible for all of our actions always. the decision as to whether the group was going to try to conceal anything might not have been his alone to make -- but his decision to aggressively lie to AT was his to make. He made the wrong choice. He was banned for it.
But our policy right now is to give members who were banned before the new guidelines and moderation policies were set in place as second chance whether or not they were appropriately banned in the first place.
The AEG situation no longer exists. Rollo is no longer working with some clandestine group. He is fully disclosing all his relationships that have to do with NVIDIA, and he is not receiving hardware to push NV products.
He is no longer hiding anything about his present arrangement -- and I wouldn't take his word for it either. This has NVIDIA confirmation and independent confirmation. We would not have let him come back if we didn't know exactly in what capacity he operates for NVIDIA.
He is not an NVIDIA representative. He's not paid or given hardware to operate in that capacity. What he does on these boards is on his own time and has nothing to do with NVIDIA. He does have access to information, and he will be able to share it with us. Really, it's almost better that we have suspicion -- members will be more thorough in their fact checking and it's likely that Rollo will be kept more honest than anyone else here. I seriously doubt anyone in Video would let him get away with anything.
His only option will be to post true information about NVIDIA. That's the only way he will ever reintegrate into the community. If he can't do it, members will call him out on it. If he consistently provides inaccurate information, the mods and I will assume it was on purpose based on his history and we will ban him once more.
those of you who want Rollo gone should hope he hasn't changed. if you are right he'll be out the door in an instant.
it is good to stay skeptical. i wouldn't say don't trust anything -- some of it will be true. rather i would say that it is wise to verify things for yourself. if we do that with Rollo, he won't be able to pull any wool over anything.
There is no doubt now that Rollo is sponsored by Nvidia.
not to post here he's not ...
You yourself said Nvidia asked to have Rollo reinstated.
it's a subtle difference -- they didn't request it, they passed on the fact that he was interested in asking to return. they didn't wake up one day and decide it was time to try to get Rollo back on AT. Rollo mentioned he'd like to come back if he could. NVIDIA merely directed the request to the proper authority.
That tells me Nvidia wants him here to continue steering customers towards Nvidia and away from ATI. THAT was Rollo's main function before he was banned and THAT'S why they asked specifically for him to return.
they don't want him to do that -- it makes them look bad. if that's how Rollo functioned before it was through AEG and not NVIDIA. They did not as specifically for Rollo to return. Rollo asked specifically for himself to be able to return. As I said, they just passed along the note.
[nvidia] don't want someone here to sell anything, and Rollo would be the worst chioce for such a job anyway because of his past. actually, Rollo being here to catalog problems and disseminate information is the best possible role for him: there's no way members would let him get away with anything else.
if we find anyone shilling they will be banned. if things hadn't changed with Rollo's situation we never would have given him the chance to come back. as I said, his current relationship with NVIDIA has nothing to do with pushing their products.
there will be viral marketers that get under the radar. it has happened and it will likely happen again, but we will keep our eyes out for it. certainly the last person that will ever be able to get away with it would be Rollo.
this is not what he is here to do, this is not what NVIDIA wants him to do, and this is not what he will do or he'll find himself banned faster than he can blink.
if i believed what you wrote, i would be disappointed too. the truth is, he won't stick around if he hasn't changed. he gets a second chance because other people got a second chance, and because he no longer is in a position where he is unwilling to disclose his relationships. he is no longer a viral marketer and his presence here is of no concern to NVIDIA other than that they passed along his request.
I appreciate second chances when I have them, and I'm glad to be able to offer them to others.
The neutrality of AnandTech is a top priority. Allowing Rollo to post has nothing to do with our neutrality. At all. In fact, it shows how unbiased we are in our policy of allowing long banned members to return -- even those who were banned for a really good reason.
We don't need or want an "in" with anyone.
I hope I have adequately shown that there is no underhandedness going on here on our part. I hope I've made it plain that AnandTech has done nothing we wouldn't have done for any other banned member. I hope it's clear that we have not been pushed by NVIDIA to allow Rollo to return.
I also hope it is clear that Rollo's capacity has changed and that he is not a viral marketer. I hope you guys can see how damaging it would be to NVIDIA to promote such behavior and that their confirmation of the fact that Rollo's posts are his own and they don't care what he says goes to show that there is no inherent bias in his position.
That said, based on the past, it is certainly wise to expect that there was some reason for him to conceal his relationship with NVIDIA and that he does have some personal bias towards them. I hope the sig requirement and the name change to nRollo will help alleviate at least some of the problems members have with him.
I honestly think I have talked this subject to death ... I just really want all of you to understand that we have operated completely above board on this and that we expect Rollo to do so as well. if he does not, he is gone. as other's have said, i hope he can show that he's has the ability to remain a useful part of the community now that his relationship with NVIDIA is fully disclosed.
