why is murder not okay?

[pelov]

I also stated that most species do not "kill" their own for food and have a pack mentality, this also goes for humans.

You sure about that? Then how do we account for pecking order in a pack mentality? Do they call all call it quits before someone gets seriously injured? Hell, some of them don't even do it for food. Male lion's kill the helpless young of the pride when they defeat the pride leader, and that's not even for food but just a matter of genetics. There are also slavemaker ants and dolphins can actually take sex slaves (and they murder too, btw).

Oh, I didn't say religion doesn't kill people, however religion "preaches" not to, unless it's for an OK reason.

It seems the bible disagrees with you. Either that or you've got to change the way you think to coincide with the bible. Killing homosexuals has to be "okay" with you, otherwise you're being hypocritical. This extends past the bible and pops up in quite a few holy texts.

People will do many things to survive, murder is just one of those things.

This is true, though, but you need to extend that beyond people. Also religion has no say in the matter, it just serves its purpose in proving that murder will happen (in the name of religion, for example). Relative ethics and morals aside, murder is just a natural aspect of nature and survival. We can decrease its occurrence and we can punish those who commit such acts based on whatever we want to believe (and I emphasize believe), but it's ultimately an act that happens because it will happen because it's unavoidable.

Sounds evil...

 

[ImpulsE69]

You sure about that? Then how do we account for pecking order in a pack mentality? Do they call all call it quits before someone gets seriously injured? Hell, some of them don't even do it for food. Male lion's kill the helpless young of the pride when they defeat the pride leader, and that's not even for food but just a matter of genetics. There are also slavemaker ants and dolphins can actually take sex slaves (and they murder too, btw).


.

I covered that in my first post. I agree with you. I was replying to his response to it. Pecking order tends to say it's OK to kill if necessary. Food, and pecking order are for the most part separate things. It's a very multi layered topic if you allow your personal emotions to stay out of it.

 

[pelov]

So you agree with me, dolphins are assholes?

Back in the late nineties, marine biologists began to find lots of porpoise carcasses that had seemingly been punched in the gut until they died. After rounding up the suspects, putting them in the line up, the porpoise widow pointed at the guilty party: asshole bottle-nose dolphins.
Porpoises don't attack dolphins. They don't even eat the same food, so they can't be fighting because they hog all the good fish. And the fight is not for territory, since porpoises are't just chased away but actually stalked and then killed.
There are only two explanations left: either "Because dolphins think killing is freaking hilarious" or because "Dolphins kill porpoises as training for when they have to kill baby dolphins."


Read more: The 6 Biggest Assholes in the Animal Kingdom | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_16762_the-6-biggest-assholes-in-animal-kingdom_p2.html#ixzz24aoBVQAg

It turns out porpoises aren't the only animals turning up floating in the sea after meeting dolphins; the other ones being baby dolphins themselves. Some marine biologists believe adult dolphins kill babies for the same reasons lions do, to bang dolphin moms, except that there are reports of female dolphins also killing dolphin babies, which either destroys the theory or makes it much, much sexier.
To make matters sound even worse, scientist say dolphins use their sonar to pinpoint their victims' vital organs so that they can cause the most damage when they hit them.
Now, there aren't many cases of dolphins attacking humans, so at least there's that. But dolphins violently humping humans? Hell yeah!


Read more: The 6 Biggest Assholes in the Animal Kingdom | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_16762_the-6-biggest-assholes-in-animal-kingdom_p2.html#ixzz24aoJ9X5o

Not to mention gang rape!

--Dolphin sex can be violent and coercive. Gangs of two or three male bottlenose dolphins isolate a single female from the pod and forcibly mate with her, sometimes for weeks at a time. To keep her in line, they make aggressive noises, threatening movements, and even smack her around with their tails. And if she tries to swim away, they chase her down. Horny dolphins have also been known to target human swimmers -Demi Moore is rumored to have had a close encounter of the finny kind.

This thread is now about dolphin rape. Post extremely graphic pictures.

 

[Craig234]

Why can your sarge tell you in war to go wipe out a village (woman and children)? Why is that not murder? Why is murder OK during war? Can you not go to war with your neighbor or enemy? Since the people elect the president who declares war, and we are the people, why can't we declare war on an individual? What if we wanted to go to war on a inexact term like terrorism? What about pornography? What about Racism? Where does it end?

Why is "war" any more than a word which means "ignore some or all morals and pretend that murder is a good thing"? Kill one you're a murderer, kill a million get a statue of you.

 

[Craig234]

Cooperation is genetically favored. Since our genes are so similar. In the past humans had a "bottleneck" and we are all very much alike, and thus cooperation is favored.

Notice how we don't cooperate with people we think are "different".

This is true - and it's why the military has learned it has to use conditioning in basic training to get soldiers to bypass the rational part of the brain making them hesitate to kill.

There is a theory that that conditioning is a major contributor to the increase in PTSD, as soldiers deal with the effects of the conditioning and killing.

 

[Craig234]

my take: because it deprives the other person of free will.



1/10 for out-trolling the OP.

Is pointing out that someone is an idiot allowed in this forum?

Probably better to just let it speak for itself.

 

[CPA]

You planning on living past 100 + your age now?

Doh!, I was thinking more along the lines that everyone will be dead and the planet will be uninhabited.

 

[HeXen]

We could make a lot of pies. Wouldn't want good meat going to waste.

i'm inclined to agree :thumbsup:

 

[Pia]

This is true - and it's why the military has learned it has to use conditioning in basic training to get soldiers to bypass the rational part of the brain making them hesitate to kill.

There is a theory that that conditioning is a major contributor to the increase in PTSD, as soldiers deal with the effects of the conditioning and killing.

The increased killing is sufficient to explain increased PTSD, so by Occam's razor I'm inclined to assume the conditioning itself does not cause PTSD.

A minority of people are substantially more capable of fighting and killing before conditioning. Probably a combination of genetics and worldview. They have sufficient mental detachment and/or acceptance of violence to be able to withstand it, and do not suffer so easily from PTSD since they are fundamentally OK with what they do. "Natural soldiers" and some violent criminals both fall in this group.

Surface conditioning as performed by armies everywhere can push the majority to kill under pressure. After the situation is over, they have to come to terms with their actions and the situation. Most can't fully do that and the result is PTSD.

In several traditional martial arts there is an effort to do deep conditioning, building the capability for mental detachment from the violence not just during action but after. I don't think modern armies attempt to do much of this.