Why is it when you get close to the nub of an issue in PFI

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

The majority of the people on these forums abide by the Rules.
So what needs changing...NOTHING!!
The very few less than .005% keep asking for changes that will benefit who?
The ones who already abide by the rules and understand that when it comes to P&N...they allow a little leeway!
There needs to be no changes...the only thing that needs changing is the .005% who should be following the rules.

...
The thing that made me initially question the mods wasn't some punishment I received; it was the situation where Red Irish was banned for calling someone an "ass" while others have said worse in these very threads.

Red Irish was requested to cease and desist the way he was using the word ass. He chose to continue and was well rewarded for his efforts.

 

[Crono]

I thought the "two way street" thread was going to be left open as an ongoing discussion of user-moderator issues.
I think there should be at least one thread like that. Even if it's mostly the same users who have already exhausted their opinions, it's good to keep an open dialogue in one place that won't get archived into the inner reaches of the black hole of AT-FuseCrap.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

The majority of the people on these forums abide by the Rules.
So what needs changing...NOTHING!!
The very few less than .005% keep asking for changes that will benefit who?
The ones who already abide by the rules and understand that when it comes to P&N...they allow a little leeway!
There needs to be no changes...the only thing that needs changing is the .005% who should be following the rules.

...
The thing that made me initially question the mods wasn't some punishment I received; it was the situation where Red Irish was banned for calling someone an "ass" while others have said worse in these very threads.

Red Irish was requested to cease and desist the way he was using the word ass. He chose to continue and was well rewarded for his efforts.

cease and desist useing it the correct way then eh?

 

[EagleKeeper]

waggy

Read the P&N rules about personal attacks.

Red wanted to try to play semantics - he failed to convince me that his intentions were honorable

 

[DrPizza]

Interesting that people have pointed out the number of registered users on these forums. Any time I log in, I see anywhere from 300 to 500 or so members logged in at any given time. I don't know the exact number, but using that, I'd estimate several thousand different visitors each day. At least 2000. Of those 2000 daily visitors, look at how many are posting in this thread.

Also, as I start clicking on random people that I see logged in, and glancing at their notes, it's amazing to see how many people have been here 2, 3, even more years, and their user notes are blank. Ironically, if I click on people complaining in this thread (this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to quite a few of them), I see a list of user notes sometimes as long as a resume! In fact, I just started going through the user notes of people in this thread. Oddly, there were a couple of people with clean slates. Oddly, they were the ones not really complaining. But, there were a few people who have been complaining in these threads constantly - it's not quite ironic that several of them have rap sheets a mile long.

Makes me think, "hmmmmm." Of the 2000 who visit daily, there's about 10-15 dissatisfied people. I believe that as I went through people, I was on my 8th person & the total number of notes was approaching 60. But, as I randomly click on people who are logged in, the average person (not posting in these PFI threads) has roughly 1 note. How bizarre.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
...
The thing that made me initially question the mods wasn't some punishment I received; it was the situation where Red Irish was banned for calling someone an "ass" while others have said worse in these very threads.

Red Irish was requested to cease and desist the way he was using the word ass. He chose to continue and was well rewarded for his efforts.

I won't argue, Common Courtesy. As I said, I wasn't really asking for an explanation and I'm not here to fight Red Irish's battles, if they need be fought at all. It's just baffling to me that Harvey can call someone a "subhuman piece of shit" in a PFI thread (even if he feels justified based on their views), but Red Irish gets reprimanded for a completely tame jab like "ass" in P&N, a forum generally regarded as more lenient when it comes to language and member altercations.

I understand now that the rules don't apply the same way to Harvey because of his contributions to the community and status as defacto mod leader. I get that. But there are non-mod members who say far worse things than "ass" and receive no punishment, so the line still isn't clear to me. I also get that mods don't have time to read every single thread, but it seems obvious to me that obscenities and insults are widely used and go generally unpunished, up to a point.

That kind of selective mod action leaves me confused as to the actual meaning and enforcement of the rule, is all. Speaking generally, if each mod can have a widely differing interpretation of a rule, then perhaps the rule should be rewritten more plainly. If the rule is already clear and enforcement is widely differing, maybe the mods could stand to be a little more consistent on it.

Just a minor example and a humble suggestion.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Interesting that people have pointed out the number of registered users on these forums. Any time I log in, I see anywhere from 300 to 500 or so members logged in at any given time. I don't know the exact number, but using that, I'd estimate several thousand different visitors each day. At least 2000. Of those 2000 daily visitors, look at how many are posting in this thread.

Also, as I start clicking on random people that I see logged in, and glancing at their notes, it's amazing to see how many people have been here 2, 3, even more years, and their user notes are blank. Ironically, if I click on people complaining in this thread (this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to quite a few of them), I see a list of user notes sometimes as long as a resume! In fact, I just started going through the user notes of people in this thread. Oddly, there were a couple of people with clean slates. Oddly, they were the ones not really complaining. But, there were a few people who have been complaining in these threads constantly - it's not quite ironic that several of them have rap sheets a mile long.

Makes me think, "hmmmmm." Of the 2000 who visit daily, there's about 10-15 dissatisfied people. I believe that as I went through people, I was on my 8th person & the total number of notes was approaching 60. But, as I randomly click on people who are logged in, the average person (not posting in these PFI threads) has roughly 1 note. How bizarre.

I have one vacation for an alleged parody thread that was not a parody. It was inspired by a thread, but it was not a parody of it in the slightest.

My second was vacation for an alleged "Unwarranted attack" after being called a "dic" by a particular member, which was the last straw in a long line of attacks by the person and I still consider the response warranted.

I received my most recent vacation after being harassed by the same particular member and responding in kind.

Anything I missed? (Feel free to confidentially PM me the notes on my account.)

If not, then I would not consider myself a troublemaker. In fact, if the moderation was consistent, then this particular member who I keep having to defend myself against would have received the vacation after vacation he deserved well before he ever got around to harassing me.

In addition, as is obvious, you present a spurious argument since the main complaint is that people are being punished unfairly/unevenly. Accordingly those who do not have any "infractions" do not have any reason to complain. As in my case(s), the complaints involve the claim that some of the "infractions" were unfairly punished.

Of course, if you lump me in with the real "troublemakers", that is a good way to try to attack my credibility. However, regardless of the messenger, the message still remains the truth: Moderation consistency IS a problem.

MotionMan

 

[DrPizza]

I wasn't referring to you, Motionman. However, I'll point out that sometimes when two people start going back and forth with personal attacks, sometimes it isn't the person who started it, but rather the person who seems to cross the line with a much more offensive attack, who gets vacationed. I don't know the details of your cases specifically, but next time, rather than attack back & risk a vacation yourself, learn to ignore them or simply PM the moderator account for one of us to take a closer look.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I wasn't referring to you, Motionman. However, I'll point out that sometimes when two people start going back and forth with personal attacks, sometimes it isn't the person who started it, but rather the person who seems to cross the line with a much more offensive attack, who gets vacationed. I don't know the details of your cases specifically, but next time, rather than attack back & risk a vacation yourself, learn to ignore them or simply PM the moderator account for one of us to take a closer look.

If I PM'd a mod about this person, it would be ignored.

I guess he found the cure for cancer, because he gets away with almost as much as Harvey appears to.

MotionMan

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Interesting that people have pointed out the number of registered users on these forums. Any time I log in, I see anywhere from 300 to 500 or so members logged in at any given time. I don't know the exact number, but using that, I'd estimate several thousand different visitors each day. At least 2000. Of those 2000 daily visitors, look at how many are posting in this thread.

Also, as I start clicking on random people that I see logged in, and glancing at their notes, it's amazing to see how many people have been here 2, 3, even more years, and their user notes are blank. Ironically, if I click on people complaining in this thread (this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to quite a few of them), I see a list of user notes sometimes as long as a resume! In fact, I just started going through the user notes of people in this thread. Oddly, there were a couple of people with clean slates. Oddly, they were the ones not really complaining. But, there were a few people who have been complaining in these threads constantly - it's not quite ironic that several of them have rap sheets a mile long.

Makes me think, "hmmmmm." Of the 2000 who visit daily, there's about 10-15 dissatisfied people. I believe that as I went through people, I was on my 8th person & the total number of notes was approaching 60. But, as I randomly click on people who are logged in, the average person (not posting in these PFI threads) has roughly 1 note. How bizarre.

You seem to completely ignore the true problems while making your point. Of COURSE most people aren't going to have notes on their account. Of COURSE most people aren't going to complain about the Mods. Of COURSE not many people are going to view PFI. Nobody is DENYING that. Yet you CONTINUE to IGNORE the FACTS that people point out here.

HOW can you justify Harvey going off on an Anti-Bush Administration rant and calling me a SUB-HUMAN PIECE OF SHIT in the PFI forum? I NEVER brought up P&N in that thread, I NEVER insulted Harvey in that thread. I NEVER brought up ANYTHING political in that thread. Explain to me how on ANY level that is even REMOTELY acceptable for a moderator to do? Yet Harvey does it.. REPEATEDLY.. He crosses the line REPEATEDLY.. And YOU say NOTHING about it.. and choose to attack the people who point it out as crossing the line.

If a 'Head Moderator' cannot even control himself in the PFI forum - How can you POSSIBLY expect them to act professionally, reasonably, and in an unbiased fashion in other forums? Certain moderators have absolutely abused their power, its been proven here, and its not being addressed in this thread other than to insult and threaten those who bring it up.

 

[LunarRay]

Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good thing the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?

MotionMan

 

[newnameman]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Interesting that people have pointed out the number of registered users on these forums. Any time I log in, I see anywhere from 300 to 500 or so members logged in at any given time. I don't know the exact number, but using that, I'd estimate several thousand different visitors each day. At least 2000. Of those 2000 daily visitors, look at how many are posting in this thread.

Also, as I start clicking on random people that I see logged in, and glancing at their notes, it's amazing to see how many people have been here 2, 3, even more years, and their user notes are blank. Ironically, if I click on people complaining in this thread (this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to quite a few of them), I see a list of user notes sometimes as long as a resume! In fact, I just started going through the user notes of people in this thread. Oddly, there were a couple of people with clean slates. Oddly, they were the ones not really complaining. But, there were a few people who have been complaining in these threads constantly - it's not quite ironic that several of them have rap sheets a mile long.

Makes me think, "hmmmmm." Of the 2000 who visit daily, there's about 10-15 dissatisfied people. I believe that as I went through people, I was on my 8th person & the total number of notes was approaching 60. But, as I randomly click on people who are logged in, the average person (not posting in these PFI threads) has roughly 1 note. How bizarre.

You seem to completely ignore the true problems while making your point. Of COURSE most people aren't going to have notes on their account. Of COURSE most people aren't going to complain about the Mods. Of COURSE not many people are going to view PFI. Nobody is DENYING that. Yet you CONTINUE to IGNORE the FACTS that people point out here.

HOW can you justify Harvey going off on an Anti-Bush Administration rant and calling me a SUB-HUMAN PIECE OF SHIT in the PFI forum? I NEVER brought up P&N in that thread, I NEVER insulted Harvey in that thread. I NEVER brought up ANYTHING political in that thread. Explain to me how on ANY level that is even REMOTELY acceptable for a moderator to do? Yet Harvey does it.. REPEATEDLY.. He crosses the line REPEATEDLY.. And YOU say NOTHING about it.. and choose to attack the people who point it out as crossing the line.

If a 'Head Moderator' cannot even control himself in the PFI forum - How can you POSSIBLY expect them to act professionally, reasonably, and in an unbiased fashion in other forums? Certain moderators have absolutely abused their power, its been proven here, and its not being addressed in this thread other than to insult and threaten those who bring it up.

The mods already admitted in the last thread that they give Harvey a free pass; I don't think you're going to get any more justification then that.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

You know better than that...that is hardly ever the case.....
You need to seriously get over yourself....

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

You know better than that...that is hardly ever the case.....
You need to seriously get over yourself....

I have seen it. Little girl reaches out to pet the baby goat and next thing you know, the little girl is yelling and her finger is bleeding.

Seen it with my own eyes.

Not every kid who gets bit deserves it.

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

No.. humans in human enclosures are LIKE chimps in chimp enclosures.

The balance of your comment suggests a challenge and indicates your confidence supported by what might be called the minor gorilla pounding on his chest to attract attention to his adulthood. The only one who'd care is the Ole Grey Back and he'd not care a twit... He was a minor ape once too.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

No.. humans in human enclosures are LIKE chimps in chimp enclosures.

So you are saying that the Alpha Chimps will do as they wish and there is nothing the other chimps can do about it so they should not even bother to complain?

Is that how you believe the mods see the AT forums?

The balance of your comment suggests a challenge and indicates your confidence supported by what might be called the minor gorilla pounding on his chest to attract attention to his adulthood. The only one who'd care is the Ole Grey Back and he'd not care a twit... He was a minor ape once too.

Um, OK.

MotionMan

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Interesting that people have pointed out the number of registered users on these forums. Any time I log in, I see anywhere from 300 to 500 or so members logged in at any given time. I don't know the exact number, but using that, I'd estimate several thousand different visitors each day. At least 2000. Of those 2000 daily visitors, look at how many are posting in this thread.

Also, as I start clicking on random people that I see logged in, and glancing at their notes, it's amazing to see how many people have been here 2, 3, even more years, and their user notes are blank. Ironically, if I click on people complaining in this thread (this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to quite a few of them), I see a list of user notes sometimes as long as a resume! In fact, I just started going through the user notes of people in this thread. Oddly, there were a couple of people with clean slates. Oddly, they were the ones not really complaining. But, there were a few people who have been complaining in these threads constantly - it's not quite ironic that several of them have rap sheets a mile long.

Makes me think, "hmmmmm." Of the 2000 who visit daily, there's about 10-15 dissatisfied people. I believe that as I went through people, I was on my 8th person & the total number of notes was approaching 60. But, as I randomly click on people who are logged in, the average person (not posting in these PFI threads) has roughly 1 note. How bizarre.

So, don't change anything. Users will continue to leave in droves so that the "300-500" people becomes 10-20, the smaller forums become extinct rather than just jaundiced like they are now. It will be great as you'll have way less to do. In fact with almost 80 of you there will be plenty of time for fun in the cave. Because you'll be on your own.

I came to AT originally for knowledge. I learned a great deal. I passed on my knowledge, and still do in GG&P and occasionally the Garage, but these are becoming very slow, with GG&P almost molasses-like.

I don't know if you are getting the message. The attitude some of the mods display is extremely dismissive. For example, in the post above, you deride based upon ban record and try to use weak statistics to further destroy any discussion by those you don't agree with. It's tantamount to trolling your users.

If people with clean slates are the only ones to suggest anything in here maybe you should post that message as a sticky so we all know where we stand?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

No.. humans in human enclosures are LIKE chimps in chimp enclosures.

So you are saying that the Alpha Chimps will do as they wish and there is nothing the other chimps can do about it so they should not even bother to complain?

Is that how you believe the mods see the AT forums?

The balance of your comment suggests a challenge and indicates your confidence supported by what might be called the minor gorilla pounding on his chest to attract attention to his adulthood. The only one who'd care is the Ole Grey Back and he'd not care a twit... He was a minor ape once too.

Um, OK.

MotionMan

I think if I were a chimp (in a chimp enclosure) or a member in say, AnandTech forums, I'd try real hard to find a way I could enjoy being there. IF fairness was my issue, I'd try to change what I could and accept what I couldn't and hope I could tell the difference. Unlike the chimp, I can move on if the effort to change or accept is greater than the enjoyment I might get staying. But, like most folks, I love to read and opine. The irony for me is that I don't often post in what might be my forte. I enjoy what others know.
As you'd know, the bar has its own rules and some of the members are judges. How long would an attorney last arguing with a sitting judge about his last decision in the case. He'd tell you where the nearest appeals court is and if you continued on he'd hold you in contempt. Sound familiar? Different judges different temperament while they all should be similar they are not... Remember Judge Ito... interesting guy. Went to school with my wife. But he is not at all like any Federal Judge or Magistrate Judge I've ever seen...
Mods (and I'm not trying to preach to the choir) are like Judges. The attorney seeks to advocate his cause with in the rules to the maximum possible. Decorum is the order of the day. Is the P&N forum [no idea about the other ones] not like a court room? Are we not all like the advocate? Why do we absent the decorum in our advocating?... It is like a chimp tossing poop at the taunting few. Which one is really the ape?

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

No.. humans in human enclosures are LIKE chimps in chimp enclosures.

So you are saying that the Alpha Chimps will do as they wish and there is nothing the other chimps can do about it so they should not even bother to complain?

Is that how you believe the mods see the AT forums?

The balance of your comment suggests a challenge and indicates your confidence supported by what might be called the minor gorilla pounding on his chest to attract attention to his adulthood. The only one who'd care is the Ole Grey Back and he'd not care a twit... He was a minor ape once too.

Um, OK.

MotionMan

I think if I were a chimp (in a chimp enclosure) or a member in say, AnandTech forums, I'd try real hard to find a way I could enjoy being there. IF fairness was my issue, I'd try to change what I could and accept what I couldn't and hope I could tell the difference. Unlike the chimp, I can move on if the effort to change or accept is greater than the enjoyment I might get staying. But, like most folks, I love to read and opine. The irony for me is that I don't often post in what might be my forte. I enjoy what others know.
As you'd know, the bar has its own rules and some of the members are judges. How long would an attorney last arguing with a sitting judge about his last decision in the case. He'd tell you where the nearest appeals court is and if you continued on he'd hold you in contempt. Sound familiar? Different judges different temperament while they all should be similar they are not... Remember Judge Ito... interesting guy. Went to school with my wife. But he is not at all like any Federal Judge or Magistrate Judge I've ever seen...
Mods (and I'm not trying to preach to the choir) are like Judges. The attorney seeks to advocate his cause with in the rules to the maximum possible. Decorum is the order of the day. Is the P&N forum [no idea about the other ones] not like a court room? Are we not all like the advocate? Why do we absent the decorum in our advocating?... It is like a chimp tossing poop at the taunting few. Which one is really the ape?

So you're saying that the mods are like judges and should equally enforce the laws/rules handed down by the law/rule writing authorities and, like every other citizen, the laws/rules should, in general, be applied to the mods/judges, too?

MotionMan

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Last time I was at the zoo I noticed something interesting at the Chimp enclosure. Chimps are fond of tossing their 'poop' at the humans but it seems they only toss 'poop' at the folks who taunt them in some way. God knows what they think of as being a taunt but I found just standing to the side observing them - which is what one should do at the zoo - allows me to enjoy the zoo and not have to wash my clothes.
The Gorilla enclosure is a bit different... IF you taunt them they'll wait for you to get close enough and try to rip your arm off.
Guess we did evolve from common ancestors.

Good think the chimps and gorillas don't run the zoo...

...Or do they?
MotionMan

I don't know but I've not seen anyone who pets the ducks or marvels at the swan loose an arm or two. I think it depends even there, though. I've seen a duck chomp on a visitor who sought to pull its feathers and a swan make life miserable for a wise guy who sprayed pepsi on it... I guess visitors should obey the rules and not try to incite the the residents to show their stuff, so to speak.

And I have seen children who were doing absolutely nothing wrong get bit in the petting zoo while petting an animal.

I guess, even when you think you are following the rules, you can still get hurt.

MotionMan

Had to walk my doggies... ehhehe

Yep, there should be better trained animals where kids play. I don't think the nice Bamby is being anything but a deer. A human and a deer... I don't think Bamby can read the rules. Bamby sort of just bees a deer. Need parental supervision for sure.

I think the most interesting thing about a zoo that folks don't often take away from it is that there are enclosures where the chimps and gorilla and lion and tiger live. Sorta like the ones humans have. We have enclosures too.. AT is an enclosure of sorts and like the Ole Grey Back runs his enclosure and the Alpha Chimp his, AT has that same sorta set up.. Us humans can meander amongst lots of enclosures but the one constant in these human enclosures is akin to the Chimp enclosure, the chimp that keeps on being a pain ends up being in pain.

We went form the humans mocking the chimps from outside the cage to everyone being the chimps in the cage?

Let me know when you work out your analogy and get back to me so I can show you why THAT one does not support your position, too.

MotionMan

No.. humans in human enclosures are LIKE chimps in chimp enclosures.

So you are saying that the Alpha Chimps will do as they wish and there is nothing the other chimps can do about it so they should not even bother to complain?

Is that how you believe the mods see the AT forums?

The balance of your comment suggests a challenge and indicates your confidence supported by what might be called the minor gorilla pounding on his chest to attract attention to his adulthood. The only one who'd care is the Ole Grey Back and he'd not care a twit... He was a minor ape once too.

Um, OK.

MotionMan

I think if I were a chimp (in a chimp enclosure) or a member in say, AnandTech forums, I'd try real hard to find a way I could enjoy being there. IF fairness was my issue, I'd try to change what I could and accept what I couldn't and hope I could tell the difference. Unlike the chimp, I can move on if the effort to change or accept is greater than the enjoyment I might get staying. But, like most folks, I love to read and opine. The irony for me is that I don't often post in what might be my forte. I enjoy what others know.
As you'd know, the bar has its own rules and some of the members are judges. How long would an attorney last arguing with a sitting judge about his last decision in the case. He'd tell you where the nearest appeals court is and if you continued on he'd hold you in contempt. Sound familiar? Different judges different temperament while they all should be similar they are not... Remember Judge Ito... interesting guy. Went to school with my wife. But he is not at all like any Federal Judge or Magistrate Judge I've ever seen...
Mods (and I'm not trying to preach to the choir) are like Judges. The attorney seeks to advocate his cause with in the rules to the maximum possible. Decorum is the order of the day. Is the P&N forum [no idea about the other ones] not like a court room? Are we not all like the advocate? Why do we absent the decorum in our advocating?... It is like a chimp tossing poop at the taunting few. Which one is really the ape?

So you're saying that the mods are like judges and should equally enforce the laws/rules handed down by the law/rule writing authorities and, like every other citizen, the laws/rules should, in general, be applied to the mods/judges, too?

MotionMan

I think in the society of AT we have rules and laws and judges and lawyers. No one is above the law cuz the law says that. And I've said that often enough in the two threads that enable me to say it... However Punishment is the element that is subjected to mitigating and extenuation factors... and there in lies the issue. Assuming we are all under the law and part of the law deal with punishment and that is mitigatable etc. one considers those factors. Giving a pass as I read is mitigation.