Flipped Gazelle
Diamond Member
Because then the "people with spiritual questions" wouldn't be trolling...
Also, we would miss out on all the fun of reading the comments of the atheists and agnostics!
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Why is it that people who trust in God get nothing?
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Because then the "people with spiritual questions" wouldn't be trolling...
Also, we would miss out on all the fun of reading the comments of the atheists and agnostics!
Flipped Gazelle
Diamond Member
People don't agree 100% about the nature of each other, either. There could be 100 people who know you, DangerAardvark, and all have different opinions and (mis)conceptions about you, yet you are one person. The same can be true regarding a deity.
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
Let's say that these 100 people who "know" me are self-proclaimed experts on me, each representing a different faction, each with a different opinion about my specific properties. The first person dictates a manuscript in which he claims to possess knowledge that I am 7 feet tall, granted to him via personal revelation. Person two composes a treatise in which he professes knowledge that I am 5 feet tall, having had this fact revealed to him after a period of solemn prayer.
Now let's introduce person 3. He's not one of the original 100. In fact, he's never met me at all. But he has read both person 1 and 2's books. And he has a measuring tape. So he looks me up in the phone book and settles the question once and for all.
And that's the difference. The height of a DangerAardvark can be ascertained through objective, third-party, repeatable observation. What is the height of God?
rudeguy
Lifer
Of course. I respect those that come right out and say that they are atheist or agnostic. Those that pretend to be lost just to stir up the pot are worthless IMHO.
In other news, my fly shaped gel stress reliever ball with realistic maggots arrived yesterday from dealextreme. Its frickin awesome.
Interesting that you bring up the point of multiple perspectives subsequently, but completely ignore that you're bringing in your own particular subjectivity into this part which then generates your own negative reaction. You assume that I assume that the Devil exists, and you're wrong. The question can be looked at completely from a figurative or a second-party subjective point of view, without the necessary existence of the Devil or in the second case, even of God. It is a good question for a moral or theological novice, and perhaps more.
Sure they do, and to say otherwise is willfully ignorant. There are indeed billions of different interpretations of God, but for the most part, these perspectives believe they have the same referent. It is valid to discuss God as One or zero from different perspectives. It is not valid however to confuse a discussion of God as One with God as zero.
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
Willful ignorance is to conflate Vishnu with Yahweh with Quetzacoatl and say that they all refer to the same thing. No. Not even in the same ballpark.
As for the first part, "multiple perspectives" wasn't the point of what you quoted. The point was not "there are multiple interpretations of God and the Devil, therefor the question is meaningless", the point was that the OP has several unstated major premises in the title, and this post
was meant to present analogous, yet patently ridiculous situations in order to illustrate the ridiculousness of this thread. But apparently no one got it, because you guys are making me explain it in excruciating detail.
RoloMather
Golden Member
Same. I believe God has answered some of my prayers. 😀
Your own opinion is that these are all nothing, from that point of view, they're actually all the same, and for you to treat them as other than nothing is intellectually dishonest. You're not participating in the discussion meaningfully, you're just repeating your position that God doesn't exist. We got that.
Flipped Gazelle
Diamond Member
And person #3 proves #'s 1 & 2 are incorrect, but they are all nevertheless still worshiping what each perceives to be the same DangerAardvark. Person #1 says you were levitating, person #2 says you were seated upon your throne.
Your example really isn't that good for this particular topic, because you have chosen a measurable aspect. Characteristics which are not particularly measurable - compassion, cruelty, wisdom, etc. - can't be qualified. Person #4 can think you're a jerk because you "rub him the wrong way", person #5 thinks you are cool because you "tell it like it is". Both are aspects of the same person, interpreted differently.
AreaCode707
Lifer
How do I explain disinterest? I care about my friends, I care about the world about me, and I care about the currently-living who are in need. I have trouble caring about the species as an abstract. What is there to commend us? We have nothing to compare ourselves against; maybe there's alien life out there, and then we may have a benchmark to say whether we're worth surviving. 🙂
I dunno, if we end we end and there's no one to mourn our ending. If the Christians are right, the only sad thing about the ending is the lack of time to bring more to Christ. If the athiests are right, there's nothing sad because there's nobody left to be sad. If the religions believing in reincarnation is right there's nothing sad because we're all something else.
Flipped Gazelle
Diamond Member
Shouldn't "worth" be inherent, rather than a comparison?
AreaCode707
Lifer
Yeah, it should. I can't and won't argue that. 🙂 I just don't have a strong connection or response to the idea of species survival for its' own sake. No logical reason for it, I suppose.
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
Please quote the post where I said God doesn't exist. You do realize that my posts remain after I've posted them, right? So if you, for example... LIE about something I've posted, it's possible to go and check it... right? But hey, you keep right on dodging my points and arguing against that strawman you've set up for yourself.
Drekce
Golden Member
Alright, we all get that some priests have molested kids. I'm not Catholic and in no way want to make it seem like the guys that do that are anything less than evil, but there is a much higher rate of sexual crimes committed against kids by teachers in public schools than priests in Catholic Churches. That rarely gets press, and I don't hear about hundred million dollar payouts from school systems...
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
I don't believe either actually exists outside of our own mind's method of sorting out right from wrong as something that happened as an evolutionary and social trait. But I do think people that are able to look back at their own lives and see things as good generally are happier regardless of the possessions that they have or social standing. For many people being part of a church is a social outing in itself and can provide an emotional connection with people and a sense of community that they wouldn't get otherwise. Thus, they are happy with less.
However, your statement holds true partially because people heavily into religion also spend a lot of time and money on that religion whereas people who aren't religious tend to put that energy towards other things. And yes, often people put it towards less virtuous things (*cough*L Ron Hubbard*cough*).
I think the reason that you see more "religious poor" is that they are using the faith as a way of keeping a positive mindset and a straight life, which there is nothing wrong with, and is quite beneficial in itself.
However, your statement holds true partially because people heavily into religion also spend a lot of time and money on that religion whereas people who aren't religious tend to put that energy towards other things. And yes, often people put it towards less virtuous things (*cough*L Ron Hubbard*cough*).
I think the reason that you see more "religious poor" is that they are using the faith as a way of keeping a positive mindset and a straight life, which there is nothing wrong with, and is quite beneficial in itself.
Luke 18:25
"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Qur'an 7-40:
"For those who reject Our Signs and turn away from them in disdain, the gates of heaven will not be opened, and they will not enter Paradise until their pride and arrogance are so humbled and reduced that they can pass through the eye of a needle."
Trans., Muhammad Zafrulla Khan.
Two points:
1. A direct reference to the difficulty that wealth creates for spirituality.
2. A parallel reference from a different religion.
This is really not hard to understand, nor to see reflected in many religions. The difficulties one encounters are likely to be personal ones, where one asks, "Well, I was pretty good and made some money for my work, I might look like a camel perhaps, but why shouldn't I go to heaven?"
Edit: I'll leave the interpretation up to you for yourself.
"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Qur'an 7-40:
"For those who reject Our Signs and turn away from them in disdain, the gates of heaven will not be opened, and they will not enter Paradise until their pride and arrogance are so humbled and reduced that they can pass through the eye of a needle."
Trans., Muhammad Zafrulla Khan.
Two points:
1. A direct reference to the difficulty that wealth creates for spirituality.
2. A parallel reference from a different religion.
This is really not hard to understand, nor to see reflected in many religions. The difficulties one encounters are likely to be personal ones, where one asks, "Well, I was pretty good and made some money for my work, I might look like a camel perhaps, but why shouldn't I go to heaven?"
Edit: I'll leave the interpretation up to you for yourself.
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