Why is ID an issue?

[Pohemi]

lulz screaming so silly. you already proved it for me, you said its proven .1% Why should i double prove it?

this whole time im laughing and only called names when the ole, 'prove it or its false" bs keeps rolling.. you said its proven again and again .1% so boom i dont even care about any of this just wasting my time getting 50 bux a hour to laugh at you.

Hey. Retard. Nobody said that. I said you wouldn't find anything more than, as in, up to. It was a fucking example. Keep running with that wrong ball though, dumbass.

Another imagined "gotchya" comment from the idiot. You're all the same. You, Taj, s0me0ne, etc. You all come crashing into threads with some kind of half-ass herp derp gotchya comments, thinking you look clever. You come across like a special 12 year old who forgot his Ritalin.

edit: Apologies to any special 12 year olds...on ritalin. That was insulting to you.

 

[woolfe9998]

yes it has to be a meaningful scale to matter right? Anything that is .1% we should just let it go.. like rape child porn etc hey we dont need to crack down or worry about it.. just .1% (OF easily proven INSTANCES Just imagine the real number)

Pure demagoguery here. Comparing a single fraudulent vote to child porn is a bad faith argument.

While every case of child porn involves a victimized child, the number of fraudulent votes is negligible and will not affect election outcomes. So far as we can tell from evidence gathered by Heritage Foundation, if we generously assume that 100 people get away with it for every 1 who gets caught, fraudulent votes are on the order of 1 in ~500,000 votes cast. So not .1% as that would be 1 in 1000. More like .000002%.

I'll show my work here. Heritage found ~40 actual fraudulent votes cast examining all court filings and records pertaining to all elections in the United States - federal, state and local - since 1982. Based on the national turnout in even numbered election years, plus a guestimated amount for off year elections, it comes to about 2 billion votes. If we add 2 zero's to the number of people caught doing it, that is 4000 fraudulent votes out of 2 billion. Or roughly 1 in 500,000.

And it's not as if there isn't a cost for being a purist about this. If 1% of people otherwise inclined to vote are deterred by these laws, that is 10,000 people not voting out of every million in order to deter 2 fraudulent votes.

 

[Moonbeam]

Pure demagoguery here. Comparing a single fraudulent vote to child porn is a bad faith argument.

While every case of child porn involves a victimized child, the number of fraudulent votes is negligible and will not affect election outcomes. So far as we can tell from evidence gathered by Heritage Foundation, if we generously assume that 100 people get away with it for every 1 who gets caught, fraudulent votes are on the order of 1 in ~500,000 votes cast. So not .1% as that would be 1 in 1000. More like .000002%.

I'll show my work here. Heritage found ~40 actual fraudulent votes cast examining all court filings and records pertaining to all elections in the United States - federal, state and local - since 1982. Based on the national turnout in even numbered election years, plus a guestimated amount for off year elections, it comes to about 2 billion votes. If we add 2 zero's to the number of people caught doing it, that is 4000 fraudulent votes out of 2 billion. Or roughly 1 in 500,000.

And it's not as if there isn't a cost for being a purist about this. If 1% of people otherwise inclined to vote are deterred by these laws, that is 10,000 people not voting out of every million in order to deter 2 fraudulent votes.

The truth just can't be based on math and examination of data. It is based on how I feel and as a moral person who isn't serious about examining the nature of true morality, I insist that my motivation for insisting that voter ID isn't a big issue and easy for all to get is because I just don't want to know that I am a bigot and asshole. I mean, can you blame me. Who wants to see they are a shit. Just do me a favor and keep those Ns away from the poles. They always vote for evil.

 

[mikeymikec]

how about you prove there has never been a case of fraud with voting?

YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST YOU MORON!

 

[ivwshane]

Lol

“I care about voter fraud!”

“I know people who have committed voter fraud but I won’t turn them in!”

“I don’t vote”

As if the lack of using capital letters wasn’t enough of a give away that we are dealing with an idiot, he goes on to prove it with absurd and inconsistent thinking.

 

[Zorba]

Hate to break it to you, but everything has a "cost".

In lieu of showing ID, how do you propose we determine that a person who walks into the polls is in fact eligible to vote? Or are you proposing that we let anyone walk in and vote without proof of age or citizenship?

Edit: I dont really see voting twice, which seems to be the only thing people are talking about in this thread, as the biggest problem. How do you determine eligibility if you dont have some way of determining age and citizenship, especially a metric that doesnt involve some "cost"?

Let's see, we make the person register to vote. Then when they come in they state their name and address, sign the rolls. If they don't give a name or address in the rolls, no vote. If they pick their neighbor's name and address they are committing a felony that runs a high risk of being caught on, especially if that neighborhood had already voted.

 

[Zorba]

Wow, I guess my Credit Union can stop locking up their money now, since no one has robbed it lately.

A bank somewhere is robbed all the time, in person voter fraud almost never happens.

 

[soulcougher73]

Classic moron reply, if i cant prove 1 million cases that means that it doesn't exist.. i love how people always make some big "PROVE IT OR ELSE YOUR ...." comments.

i dont give a shit about anyone's feelings, but obviously you think peoples feelings are more important than the integrity of the system... right? If you don't have a ID what kind of citizen are you? sounds like a non productive one that doesn't pay taxes,

Imagine how great the world would be if everyone shared responsibilities. Oh but that might hurt someone's feelings right. DOWN WITH AMERICA lets make a new nation called Freeica everything free for everyone, we can go back to dirt roads and everyone self policing. oh wait how would all your friends get welfare then? ugh

Aaaannnndddd he went full retard.

 

[soulcougher73]

yes it has to be a meaningful scale to matter right? Anything that is .1% we should just let it go.. like rape child porn etc hey we dont need to crack down or worry about it.. just .1% (OF easily proven INSTANCES Just imagine the real number)

Clearly you haven't read this tread. Here. Try post #36
.1% is being VERY generous. Its more like .000015%.

 

[Moonbeam]

Aaaannnndddd he went full retard.

When facts presented by other people hurt his feelings that means ‘what he thinks pass for facts’ have hurt their feelings. ‘Real people”, conservatives, live in a constant state of butt hurt because they were abused as children if they showed any. The only safe place is emotionally dead.

 

[Pohemi]

YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST YOU MORON!

He also still refuses to show evidence of his claims of widespread fraud of any meaningful level.

Lol

“I care about voter fraud!”

“I know people who have committed voter fraud but I won’t turn them in!”

“I don’t vote”

As if the lack of using capital letters wasn’t enough of a give away that we are dealing with an idiot, he goes on to prove it with absurd and inconsistent thinking.

Him- "There's widespread fraud! We must demand ID to vote!"
others- "There is no evidence of that. Stop being dumb."
him- "Show me the evidence of there NOT being fraud, even though I'll show nothing to back up my bullshit claims! HURRDURR"

He's a fucking idiot just trolling others.

Clearly you haven't read this tread. Here. Try post #36
.1% is being VERY generous. Its more like .000015%.

You're ruining his imagined fantasy "gotchya" moment though, based on his absence of reading comprehension.

him- "fraud is a problem we must address"
others- "No, it isn't. At least nothing adding up to anything more than .1%"...(an example)
him- "BUT .1% IS PROVEN AND IT'S TOO MUCH WAHHHHHHHH!!!1"

He's a fucking clown with no real debate or honest argument, he's just being a dipshit.

 

[HomerJS]

hahahahahhahaha so funny, ok lets not worry about it then, its already fuct lets just leave it as is guess there is fraud then if you wouldnt bet.. oops

You are advocating cutting off your arm to trim your nails. You won't have to worry about your nails but...

Handle voter fraud like we do arsenic in drinking water. We don't get the level to absolute zero because it's cost prohibitive. We do get it down to a level where is has no ill effects on people. Right now we don't have a widespread fraud problem where is has ANY effect on outcome.

BTW - Why haven't you advocated for more laws on handling ballots after they are cast? We already had Republicans found guilty in court of fraud with cast ballots. I can only conclude you have no real interest in the integrity of the vote.

 

[soundforbjt]

how would you know how much fraud was conducted? oh wait thats right everyone on this site is psychic! no fraud ever happens with voting.. /eye rolls over and over

Perhaps you can link some of these frauds regularly occurring then since you believe it’s occurring.

 

[feralkid]

I know first hand people who have committed fraud voting! will i throw them under the bus? nah.. but its not that complicated to vote for someone that you know is not going to vote to begin with. LIke me! ive never voted once hahahahahha

Truly a great American; a model of civic responsibility!

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'm a well off white dude living in suburbia and to get my driver's license renewed it took me 3 months to get an appointment, and then 6 weeks to receive it in the mail. To get the ID I had to have two forms of other ID, and at least 2 utility bills. This is a barrier to voting and just ridiculous in general.

Of course I had no idea they had changed thing process, so I went to get a new ID 2 weeks before it expired, just like normal and I was told about the new process. I called 10 different tag offices to get an appointment only 3 months out and I had to take time off work to do it.

Also, checking IDs makes the lines go significantly slower.

Thanks for this example.

 

[himkhan]

Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Colt, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Sam Morse, Robert Fulton, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth...
Do you know what these Great Americans have in common...

 

[MtnMan]

The people who vote ain't the problem. Perhaps a few people out of millions of voters should not have voted.

The real threat is the people that want to throw out millions of ballots after the fact because they are loosing, and employ every whack job lawyer in an attempt to do so.

 

[pauldun170]

Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Colt, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Sam Morse, Robert Fulton, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth...
Do you know what these Great Americans have in common...

Raging drunks.
Each one a raging drunk.

 

[himkhan]

Raging drunks.
Each one a raging drunk.

Well you have me there! A few of them may have had an STD too!

Not one of them ever had to show an ID to vote. There are hundreds of millions of other dead Americans that can make this claim too.
*were they not dead and voting 4x a piece for the democrat candidate of their choice like the GOP would have you believe.)

 

[feralkid]

Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Colt, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Sam Morse, Robert Fulton, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth...
Do you know what these Great Americans have in common...

A pair of testicles?

 

[mect]

yes it has to be a meaningful scale to matter right? Anything that is .1% we should just let it go.. like rape child porn etc hey we dont need to crack down or worry about it.. just .1% (OF easily proven INSTANCES Just imagine the real number)

Voter fraud is very different from rape and child porn. Voter fraud is a victimless crime until it rises to the point of changing the outcome of an election. So in other words, its not good, but also not worth suppressing other votes unless it rises to the point of impacting elections. And right now, we are orders of magnitude below that point. On the other hand, with rape and child pornography, every single instance has a direct impact on an individual.

However, dealing with voter fraud and rape both share some commonalities. For example, you make sure that the cure is not worse than the disease. You don't turn the country into a surveillance state in order to prevent rape. You don't disenfranchise millions of voters to prevent a handful of fraudulent votes.

 

[mikeymikec]

yes it has to be a meaningful scale to matter right? Anything that is .1% we should just let it go.. like rape child porn etc hey we dont need to crack down or worry about it.. just .1% (OF easily proven INSTANCES Just imagine the real number)

I know first hand people who have committed fraud voting! will i throw them under the bus? nah.. but its not that complicated to vote for someone that you know is not going to vote to begin with. LIke me! ive never voted once hahahahahha

It's kinda scary that you liken these crimes while exhibiting a couldnt-care-less attitude about them.

 

[Moonbeam]

Word on the street which is infallible is that the Republican party has been infected by Russian a biologically engineered brain worm that destroys rational analysis and that the only cure is extermination. How unhappy conservatives would be if Democrats fought fire with fire.

 

[Zorba]

Classic moron reply, if i cant prove 1 million cases that means that it doesn't exist.. i love how people always make some big "PROVE IT OR ELSE YOUR ...." comments.

i dont give a shit about anyone's feelings, but obviously you think peoples feelings are more important than the integrity of the system... right? If you don't have a ID what kind of citizen are you? sounds like a non productive one that doesn't pay taxes,

Imagine how great the world would be if everyone shared responsibilities. Oh but that might hurt someone's feelings right. DOWN WITH AMERICA lets make a new nation called Freeica everything free for everyone, we can go back to dirt roads and everyone self policing. oh wait how would all your friends get welfare then? ugh

When you want to restrict people's rights, infact their most fundamental right, the burden is on you to show the benefits outweigh the burdens.

 

[Zorba]

your only argument is that everyone doesnt do it.. so everyone doesnt rape either.. so we shouldnt try to stop them with any extra measures right.. wouldnt want to hurt feelings

What rights am I giving up to prevent rape? I can still have sex with any willing, legal partner. You are however proposing preventing millions of people from voting, due to a small handful of fraud cases.

That'd be like requiring men to get a license before they can have sex to prevent rape. Except a far higher percentage of men will commit rape than voter fraud.