Why is fluoride forced upon something so important as our water?

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: Aelius
flouride casues bone spurs (cancer).

Why do you think there's a label on your toothpaste that says "do not swallow toothpaste".

It's not because of the taste.

Bone spurs are not cancer. Also, please do not post random information that is (highly) likely not true, or is true with conditions (i.e. ingesting 5 pounds of fluoride causes bone spurs), without noting them and posting links to references.

To OP regarding comparisons to other countries:

There is no way you can compare dental cavity rates between two entire countries and make conclusions about the fluoridation rates with ANY sort of validity.

1. As you noted, only some 67% of Americans use fluoride and I'm sure many in these other countries DO use it as well, so the sample is not well-defined between the two groups.

2. There are an infinitude of other factors to consider. For example, do Americans eat a ton more sugar in general? (yes, particularly soft drinks) Do Americans generally take better care of their teeth? Worse care? How were the people sampled (if in Africa, say, were the English-speakers more likely to be polled, those speaking English generally being better-off than otherwise and therefore having access to better dental care?)

As a side note, someone mentioned rat research: that sounds like complete hokiness. "Use of fluoridated water made the rats more likely to have damage to blood vessels in the brain...." You can probably come up with a study that proves feeding rats too much lettuce causes causes testicular cancer, but there are always so many different things happening in a system as complex as a biological, living organism that science as we know it is only scratching the surface of understanding the interaction between different bodily systems.

To sum it up: don't worry so much.

I'll look it up for you when I have more time later on in the week with research to back it up. That's where I got my info from about 4 years ago. Maybe they got further by now or got closed down. FDA ignored them outright that's all I recall.

Just to clarify it's Osteosarcoma which apparently can appear as bone spurs or look kind of like bone spurs on the X-Ray. I'll try to link an image later if I can find it again but basicly it looks like massive dark spots all over the skeletal structure.

As far as your summary you gota be naive to stick your head in the sand and hope for the best. You are however correct that you can start research with the intent to prove whatever point you wish and make things up to ensure your point is proven. Big pharam does it on a daily basis and the FDA eats it up until people are virtually dropping dead at their doorstep. If the FDA couldn't find the chemicals in Aspartame that turn into Formic Acid at body temperature they sure as heck aren't going to properly clear anything else. It's academic.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Thump553
When I was a kid playing Davey Crockett and hula hoops this debate was raging hot and heavy, with the John Birch Society foursquare against fluoridation.

Get over it. Have you ever noticed how many half-employed dentists there are? Cavities are way, way down-thanks to fluoride.

If it really bends you out of shape, move out to the country and use well water.

Every dentist I have ever met has been extremely well off. There was a minimum two week wait for a cleaning at my former family dentist.

Half employed. Don't know about that.

I could name at least a half dozen dentists, ranging from brand new to those who have practiced for years, who do not work full weeks because of lack of work. It's an overcrowded field. This is from personal knowledge and also from representing them.

 

[rbV5]

As a father and a professional operating Municipal Drinking Water treatment plants and water distribution systems for over 20 years I am certainly not opposed to flouride addition.

I've spoken at length with people in the health care field and my peers in Water Treament Industry and I've come to the conclusion that the health benefits far outweigh any supposed health risk from proper floiuride addition.

The biggest "realistic" risk is discoloring teeth from levels far above the 1.0 mg/L dose used in Drinking Water. Adding too little simply wastes the product and gives you no real benefit. Flouride addition has a cost effective, proven safe track record for many decades.

The facility that I currently work at does not add flouride to the water, but the community I live in does after our plant delivers it to their system.

Like virtually all aspects of water treatment, there is plenty of vocal opposition, but I remain convinced that flouride addition is overwhelmingly good for public health and I support it.

 

[NeoV]

Cavities are way down in parts of the USA that don't have fluoride in their water too - it's about toothbrush/toothpaste technology, not the water.

The entire idea of fluoride in water is idiotic anyway - how many times do you drink a glass of water and swish it around in your mouth? Most of what you drink goes right down your throat.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Cavities are way down in parts of the USA that don't have fluoride in their water too - it's about toothbrush/toothpaste technology, not the water.

The entire idea of fluoride in water is idiotic anyway - how many times do you drink a glass of water and swish it around in your mouth? Most of what you drink goes right down your throat.

Its not idiotic at all. It provides a low cost, effective way to reduce cavities with little risk. Tooth decay and tooth loss is an insidious result of improper hygene.

Sure, someone who get access to the proper health care, proper equipment, and proper education will likely never need flouride addition to maintain good dental health, however with most of the births in this country coming from unwed mothers, and the lack of proper education, training ect, less and less folks with health care benefits and access to proper dental care it only makes sense, both from a fiscal as well as from a public health standpoint.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Cavities are way down in parts of the USA that don't have fluoride in their water too - it's about toothbrush/toothpaste technology, not the water.

The entire idea of fluoride in water is idiotic anyway - how many times do you drink a glass of water and swish it around in your mouth? Most of what you drink goes right down your throat.

i'd be interested in knowing where you got your statistics noting that "cavities are way down in parts of the USA that don't have fluoride in their water too."

and obviously you haven't read this thread if you think fluoride in the water only has a benefit topically.

 

[OutHouse]

if flouride is so great then why are we still getting cavities? I see no need to polute my drinking water with a chemical byproduct made from Florida phosphate fertilizer smokestacks.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Citrix
if flouride is so great then why are we still getting cavities? I see no need to polute my drinking water with a chemical byproduct made from Florida phosphate fertilizer smokestacks.

fluoride can help lessen the amount of cavitites, but it can't eliminate cavities amongst those who don't brush/floss properly or who often bathe their enamel in sugary, starchy foods.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: NeoV
It doesn't belong in our drinking water, period.

It's an ingredient in rat poison.

Toothbrush technology, better toothpaste, and more awareness of the importance of dental care are all we need.

i agree, i just want PLAIN WATER to drink. stop adding chemicals to it!!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Thump553
I could name at least a half dozen dentists, ranging from brand new to those who have practiced for years, who do not work full weeks because of lack of work.

It's an overcrowded field.

This is from personal knowledge and also from representing them.

It may be "overcrowded" in your particular area which is the fault of those particular Dentists but everywhere else I have been, the Dentist's are backed up for a month or more with work that you cannot get an appointment for a month or more out.

Try again with the BS.

 

[techs]

I am under the impression that in parts of the country flouride levels are naturally occuring at the same concentrations as are added to water in areas without flouride.
And people have been drinking naturally flouridated water for hundreds of years with no ill effects.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: NeoV
It doesn't belong in our drinking water, period.

It's an ingredient in rat poison.

Toothbrush technology, better toothpaste, and more awareness of the importance of dental care are all we need.

i agree, i just want PLAIN WATER to drink. stop adding chemicals to it!!

Rat poison? Your logic is entirely flawed.

Rat poison also contains carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Your body is 93% carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may99/927309210.An.r.html

By your logic, we should avoid carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen since they exist in rat poison.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: techs
I am under the impression that in parts of the country flouride levels are naturally occuring at the same concentrations as are added to water in areas without flouride.
And people have been drinking naturally flouridated water for hundreds of years with no ill effects.

Perhaps but does flouride naturally occur in water? What makes it occur if it does? I'm curious.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: NeoV
It doesn't belong in our drinking water, period.

It's an ingredient in rat poison.

Toothbrush technology, better toothpaste, and more awareness of the importance of dental care are all we need.

That's a nice fallacy, but it doesn't prove anything. If you claim fluoride is bad then prove it. The health benefits have been listed and proven time after time. Give a reputable source that says fluoride is bad and shouldn't be used.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Perhaps but does flouride naturally occur in water? What makes it occur if it does? I'm curious.

Its a mineral in some rocks, so in the right areas it naturally happens to disolve in the water.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: techs
I am under the impression that in parts of the country flouride levels are naturally occuring at the same concentrations as are added to water in areas without flouride.
And people have been drinking naturally flouridated water for hundreds of years with no ill effects.

bingo.

most water has some naturally occurring fluoride in it. so those crying about the "government putting chemicals" in their water have been consuming it all along anyway regardless.

What is fluoridated water?

Virtually all water contains some amount of fluoride. Water fluoridation is the process of adding fluoride to the water supply so that the level reaches approximately 1 part fluoride per million parts water (ppm) or 1 milligram fluoride per liter of water (mg/L); this is the optimal level for preventing tooth decay (1).

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/fluoridated-water

 

[nova2]

well EPA's Vice President of the scientist union, and its personnel do not think fluoridation should stay as it currently is.
he and the union voted to oppose it.

Vice President of EPA's Scientist Union Testifies Against Fluoridation
http://www.fluoridealert.org/testimony.htm

that's easily some legit and heavy weight.

i'm pretty busy recently, if someone could find the results of what he requested (back in 2000), that'd be cool.

also:

Harvard Study:
Strong Link Between Fluoridated Water and Bone Cancer in Boys
http://www.ewg.org/issues/fluoride/20060405/index.php

punches you with some of the best info they have on the front page.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/

so, it seems clear that fluoridation of city water is getting pushed off its vast mountain, and with good reason.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: nova2
well EPA's Vice President of the scientist union, and its personnel do not think fluoridation should stay as it currently is.
he and the union voted to oppose it.

Vice President of EPA's Scientist Union Testifies Against Fluoridation
http://www.fluoridealert.org/testimony.htm

that's easily some legit and heavy weight.

i'm pretty busy recently, if someone could find the results of what he requested (back in 2000), that'd be cool.

also:

Harvard Study:
Strong Link Between Fluoridated Water and Bone Cancer in Boys
http://www.ewg.org/issues/fluoride/20060405/index.php

punches you with some of the best info they have on the front page.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/

so, it seems clear that fluoridation of city water is getting pushed off its vast mountain, and with good reason.

i could find a site that panders and that prints propaganda that says koolaid will give you cancer, but that doesn't mean i'll jump into bed with them.

in other words, research and research some more, and then draw your conclusions.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: Thump553
When I was a kid playing Davey Crockett and hula hoops this debate was raging hot and heavy, with the John Birch Society foursquare against fluoridation.

Get over it. Have you ever noticed how many half-employed dentists there are? Cavities are way, way down-thanks to fluoride.

If it really bends you out of shape, move out to the country and use well water.

I remember the John Birch Society claiming that water fluoridation was a communist plot. But I thought that a generation growing up with significantly lower incidents of tooth decay had resolve the issue.

 

[NeoV]

guys, I'm not some conspiricy nutjob here..Oswald killed JFK, a plane really hit the pentagon on 9/11, and we did in fact land on the moon.

This fluoride thing is different though. There was an article in TIME magazine a few months ago about this as well - parts of the USA ( I want to say it was Oregon, but I'm not sure) have experienced an almost identical cavity rate decrease as the rest of the USA, and they don't have fluoride in their drinking water - better toothpaste is the reason for decreased cavity rates, not fluoride in your drinking water!

This is a growing and I believe important health issue..

more info here LINK

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: NeoV
more info here LINK

Someone will be along shortly to declare Mothering Magazine to be propaganda because it doesn't agree with her world view.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: EatSpam


Why should the government be concerned with what I do with my teeth? That's my question. I don't like some government beaurocrat making decisions involving my health.

Those who want or need flouride can use topical gels, ingest flouride tablets, and whatever else their dentist recommends - the dentist being the proper person to advise people on their dental health, not the government.

Why should the government be concerned with water quality at all - for all they care , your local water company could supply you with the waste water from a galvanizing plant, right.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: EatSpam


Why should the government be concerned with what I do with my teeth? That's my question. I don't like some government beaurocrat making decisions involving my health.

Those who want or need flouride can use topical gels, ingest flouride tablets, and whatever else their dentist recommends - the dentist being the proper person to advise people on their dental health, not the government.

Why should the government be concerned with water quality at all - for all they care , your local water company could supply you with the waste water from a galvanizing plant, right.

There's a difference between mandating product standards and mandating medical additives that have nothing to do with that product standard. Should we start adding calcium and vitamin supplements to the water, too, since some people just might be deficient? Why is flouride special in that regard?

I'm all for the government mandating clean water standards, but leave the dental additives to the dentists.

 

[BW86]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
Shhhhhh!

Do not talk about flouride.

<-- Extremely glad to that I've been drinking reverse osmosis water pretty much since the day I was born.

you and me both

 

[SP33Demon]

Will a Brita filter out the fluoride?