Why is fluoride forced upon something so important as our water?

[nova2]

@EatS: right.

 

[RMich]

Preserve our essence. Our precious essence. Peace on Earth.

Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk...ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.

Sorry. This thread induced one of those pesky flashbacks.

 

[piasabird]

Check this out:

http://www.curezone.com/dental/fluoride.asp

Flouride has some hidden problems. In a study it was determined in rates that flouride with low levels of aluminum, which is found naturally in drinking water, can cause damage to the blood vessels in the rats brain.

I would not be so willing to accept the benefits of Flouride.

There has been some suggestions that just examining one chemical's affect on the body is a narrow way of studying chemicals. Often a chemical can combine with other chemicals and produce ill effects not thought about that can not be determined. Some pesticides did not have that many ill effects, because they were tested in large doses. But frogs were damaged by the pesticides in very minute quantities. Somehow when exposed to higher concentrations they could fight against them, but when exposed to a very low concentration somehow their bodies did not notice the chemicals and it slowly affected them. The problem is the present technique is often to expose test animals and subjects to larger concentrations and somehow that does not reflect how people and animals may be affected through normal exposure.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: moshquerade


i have read articles, journals, magazines, and attended many classes on the topic of fluoride. after compiling all those facts and all that data i still drink fluoridated water because it is beneficial.

So what did you do, totally ignore the countless articles critical of fluroide ingestion? Just google "fluoride" and see how many negative comments there are about it. What made you stand so firmly with the pro-fluroide camp, I'm wondering, when it is such a debated issue? My view is if there are so many people complaining about it thenit means it's either not very well understood or it really is dangeorus- and both situations are unecessary risks in my book. So I avoid fluoridated water as much as I can.

In my teens when I didn't care and didn't know better I had developed alot of cavities, and then I suddenly changed and stopped drinking tap water and avoided refined sugars. In the years since then I have not had any cavities, and I attribute it mostly to the lack of refined sugars in my diet. Fluroide makes no difference there

 

[cruzer]

An interesting fact: the original research on flouride benefits was sponsored by Carnegie Mellon University. The Mellon family made their riches by owning ALCOA, the number one aluminum company. At the turn of the century, ALCOA had a major(expensive) problem eliminating a toxic waste that was the byproduct of aluminum smelting. The chemical was... flouride. So they found a way to eliminate the chemical through the community kidney.
Today, the source of flouride is from the pollution scrubbers of the fertilizer industry! It is not pharmaceutical grade, it is industrial grade.

 

[nova2]

thanks.

interesting search results:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&...+University+alcoa+fluoride&btnG=Search

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: nova2
nah, swallowing (systemic) the fluoride is what I'd personally like to avoid. my choice. I can choose to get fluoride in my toothpaste. thanks, that's plenty.
i don't care to have Great Extra Protection! TM R for my teeth via fluoride, until I change my mind about it.

others who sip sugar richs drinks much or eat a lot of sodium rich foods, may want fluoride tablets. their choice.

making a choice for all people and putting it in something so important as water, is, imo, quite unfortunate. stick with the absolute essentials for clean water, please, and not your additives for dental health.

others who sip sugar richs drinks much or eat a lot of sodium rich foods,
In fact thats the choice of about 90 percent of Americans

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: moshquerade


i have read articles, journals, magazines, and attended many classes on the topic of fluoride. after compiling all those facts and all that data i still drink fluoridated water because it is beneficial.

So what did you do, totally ignore the countless articles critical of fluroide ingestion? Just google "fluoride" and see how many negative comments there are about it. What made you stand so firmly with the pro-fluroide camp, I'm wondering, when it is such a debated issue? My view is if there are so many people complaining about it thenit means it's either not very well understood or it really is dangeorus- and both situations are unecessary risks in my book. So I avoid fluoridated water as much as I can.

i am a dental healthcare professional. i didn't *google* any articles. it is all relevant to my career, my education, and my continuing education. i did not "ignore" the articles that show concern for fluoridation, but i have set my beliefs on the conglomerate of information i am presented with and came to the conclusion that i have. if i were concerned with drinking fluoridated water at all - i personally WOULD NOT be drinking it , but i do, and i will continue.

let's put it this way, amalgam fillings have come under fire. the tree hugger types have claimed that silver fillings are responsible for everything from allergies to MS. desperate people have come into our office thinking that having all their silver fillings replaced with plastic ones will solve their health woes. sadly, this does not happen.
i personally have 6 amalgam fillings in my mouth and i am at easy liberty to have them changed if i wished. i have not done so. my research and gathering of information does not support the alarmists.

In my teens when I didn't care and didn't know better I had developed alot of cavities, and then I suddenly changed and stopped drinking tap water and avoided refined sugars. In the years since then I have not had any cavities, and I attribute it mostly to the lack of refined sugars in my diet. Fluroide makes no difference there

you will acquire the bulk of your cavities when your teeth have just erupted into your mouth. so the teen years are your cavity years and that rate usually drops off naturally as you age. fluoride does make a difference in those years especially.

better oral hygiene and a lack of sugar (candy/soda that is more prevelant when we were younger and didn't know better or care) is the reason for your decrease in decay. also, the fluoride does help to better calcify our teeth over time.

 

[imported_Aelius]

flouride casues bone spurs (cancer).

Why do you think there's a label on your toothpaste that says "do not swallow toothpaste".

It's not because of the taste.

 

[nova2]

moshquerade: i guess you aren't reading me.
what other method would there be to get the population to receive systemic fluoride?

tablets, if the parents desire. you have easy choice there.
stopping mass water fluoridation may save significant cash, and fix the problem of people not wanting it in their water, and products that contain water.

the babys/young kids benifet more from ingesting the stuff, as you yourself said.
tablets.


it wouldn't be forced upon you and the water you drink and shower in.

obviously fluoridating water isn't bloody impressive seeing the better (less) DMFT (Decayed, Missing & Filled teeth) rates of other countries that do not fluoridate their water.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/caries/who-dmft.html

 

[Thump553]

When I was a kid playing Davey Crockett and hula hoops this debate was raging hot and heavy, with the John Birch Society foursquare against fluoridation.

Get over it. Have you ever noticed how many half-employed dentists there are? Cavities are way, way down-thanks to fluoride.

If it really bends you out of shape, move out to the country and use well water.

 

[nova2]

apparently you didn't look at the DMFT figures. np man, i'll hook you up, yo

8 countries that do not fluoridate their water at all, have better (lower) DMFT rates, than the US.

"Cavities are way, way down-thanks to fluoride. "
this thread is specifically about fluoride being pumped into water. not fluoride in toothpaste, if that was what you meant.
please me more explicit.

"If it really bends you out of shape"
what should bend people out of shape is that they have no simple choice, and may not even be aware of the problems with fluoride, and that it is in their water.
they would need to go out of there way (or not, depending on your opinion) and buy non-fluoridated water. (make sure to call up the bottled water companys and ask if they fluoridate their water, if the bottle doesn't mention anything)

 

[blackllotus]

Don't we have more important things to worry about than flouride?

 

[nova2]

perspective eh?

everyone has different standards, and goals.
this is but one problem, but I chose to take some time aside from my other projects, and concentrate on this fascinating subject.

 

[tweakmm]

Shhhhhh!

Do not talk about flouride.

<-- Extremely glad to that I've been drinking reverse osmosis water pretty much since the day I was born.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Don't we have more important things to worry about than flouride?

If I was actually drinking city water I'd be pissed as hell that in order to drink I'd have to injest government mandated chemicals "to protect my teeth".

 

[LumbergTech]

flouride helps a lot of kids to not get cavities..maybe you dont give a crap but it makes a huge difference in cost to dental insurers etc

 

[nova2]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
flouride helps a lot of kids to not get cavities..maybe you dont give a crap but it makes a huge difference in cost to dental insurers etc

please be more explicit.

if you meant fluoride in water, see my and others previous posts.
make sure to check the DMFT rates, too, because you obviously skipped various things, leading to a flawed post.

now, fluoride in toothpaste, this topic wasn't meant to deal with that much. just fluoride in water, which you drink, wash your clothes in, bath in, whatever.
there are dangers with fluoride that have already been mentioned or linked to, like in my starting post of this topic.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Thump553
When I was a kid playing Davey Crockett and hula hoops this debate was raging hot and heavy, with the John Birch Society foursquare against fluoridation.

Get over it. Have you ever noticed how many half-employed dentists there are? Cavities are way, way down-thanks to fluoride.

If it really bends you out of shape, move out to the country and use well water.

Every dentist I have ever met has been extremely well off. There was a minimum two week wait for a cleaning at my former family dentist.

Half employed. Don't know about that.

 

[sandmanwake]

Fluoride makes people more submissive to those in power and less likely to question what is going on around them. It's a form of mind control that's implemented by the US government and those who actually control the government.

 

[morkinva]

Originally posted by: sandmanwake
Fluoride makes people more submissive to those in power and less likely to question what is going on around them. It's a form of mind control that's implemented by the US government and those who actually control the government.

Actually, I believe the nazi's were the first to use sodium fluoride to implement docility.

 

[NeoV]

It doesn't belong in our drinking water, period.

It's an ingredient in rat poison.

Toothbrush technology, better toothpaste, and more awareness of the importance of dental care are all we need.

 

[nova2]

So I find this:
http://www.just-think-it.com/no-f.htm (search for: (2) Avoid it )

supposedly these methods do not remove any fluoride from water.
bah.

maybe active alumina works somewhat?

posted in highly technical:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=50&threadid=1871575&enterthread=y

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: Aelius
flouride casues bone spurs (cancer).

Why do you think there's a label on your toothpaste that says "do not swallow toothpaste".

It's not because of the taste.

Bone spurs are not cancer. Also, please do not post random information that is (highly) likely not true, or is true with conditions (i.e. ingesting 5 pounds of fluoride causes bone spurs), without noting them and posting links to references.

To OP regarding comparisons to other countries:

There is no way you can compare dental cavity rates between two entire countries and make conclusions about the fluoridation rates with ANY sort of validity.

1. As you noted, only some 67% of Americans use fluoride and I'm sure many in these other countries DO use it as well, so the sample is not well-defined between the two groups.

2. There are an infinitude of other factors to consider. For example, do Americans eat a ton more sugar in general? (yes, particularly soft drinks) Do Americans generally take better care of their teeth? Worse care? How were the people sampled (if in Africa, say, were the English-speakers more likely to be polled, those speaking English generally being better-off than otherwise and therefore having access to better dental care?)

As a side note, someone mentioned rat research: that sounds like complete hokiness. "Use of fluoridated water made the rats more likely to have damage to blood vessels in the brain...." You can probably come up with a study that proves feeding rats too much lettuce causes causes testicular cancer, but there are always so many different things happening in a system as complex as a biological, living organism that science as we know it is only scratching the surface of understanding the interaction between different bodily systems.

To sum it up: don't worry so much.

 

[TheBeast]

To sum it up: don't worry so much.

How can you say that when the government continues to poinson us w/ lethal mind controlling cancer causing fluoride!

Seriously, I think the fluoride and vaccine hating people should all move to an island, let their teeth rot out of their heads and die from preventable disease. Then we won't have to listen to this crap all the time.

Or we could just working on improving our education system