Why is DisplayPort so rare on PC laptops?

[Infohawk]

My understanding is that HDMI cannot drive higher resolution external monitors. Even some of these high-end ultrabooks don't include DisplayPort. Why not?

 

[jpiniero]

It's kind of redundant to have both HDMI and DP. HDMI is more useful in consumer-y type machines since you can hook them up to TVs.

 

[beginner99]

My understanding is that HDMI cannot drive higher resolution external monitors. Even some of these high-end ultrabooks don't include DisplayPort. Why not?

hdmi 1.3 supports higher than 1080p resolution and AFAIK intel HD3000 and higher can support such higher resolutions using DP, not sure about HDMI.

It's kind of redundant to have both HDMI and DP. HDMI is more useful in consumer-y type machines since you can hook them up to TVs.

You can do that with DP too. my laptop has DP-only and I got a 5 meter long DP to hdmi cable for like $40 so I can easily hock it up to my TV. cool for watching hd youtube stuff or other streaming on your tv.

 

[Infohawk]

hdmi 1.3 supports higher than 1080p resolution and AFAIK intel HD3000 and higher can support such higher resolutions using DP, not sure about HDMI.

Isn't actually getting the software and monitor to do it unreliable?

 

[Throckmorton]

It's kind of redundant to have both HDMI and DP. HDMI is more useful in consumer-y type machines since you can hook them up to TVs.

How is it redundant when HDMI doesn't support any res over 1920x1200?

 

[Throckmorton]

hdmi 1.3 supports higher than 1080p resolution and AFAIK intel HD3000 and higher can support such higher resolutions using DP, not sure about HDMI.

In theory all kinds of magical things are possible on all kinds of port. In real life, you can't do 2560x1440 much less 2560x1600 with HDMI.

 

[paperwastage]

In theory all kinds of magical things are possible on all kinds of port. In real life, you can't do 2560x1440 much less 2560x1600 with HDMI.

with HDMI 1.4, sure

3840 × 2160p @ 24/25/30hz

that saying, I've seen a lot of (newer) laptops ditch VGA, and put a (mini)displayport there.... you can make connect to VGA/HDMI/DVI using dongles, but of course the dongle part is somewhat troublesome

 

[bunnyfubbles]

How is it redundant when HDMI doesn't support any res over 1920x1200?

because for every 1 person who might want what DP can offer that HDMI cannot, there might be 99+ that would do just fine with if not prefer the HDMI interface so that they don't have to deal with a special converter/chord

while it might suck, HDMI is deemed good enough and anything extra is deemed not worthwhile

kind of like how we're stuck with quadcore CPUs for the most part, or even for those wiling to pay a premium we're stuck with 6 core chips when there are 8+ core chips available (but aren't worthwhile because we can't overclock them and our overclocked 6 core chip is actually faster)

there's just not enough people or devices that demand DP over HDMI to make it commonplace

 

[KentState]

I've only seen the lack of DP on budget minded laptops. Ultrabooks are a mixed bag since they are designed for travel/portability and not being docked to monitor. You should be able to find a good laptop or ultrabook with DP.

 

[Infohawk]

I've only seen the lack of DP on budget minded laptops. Ultrabooks are a mixed bag since they are designed for travel/portability and not being docked to monitor. You should be able to find a good laptop or ultrabook with DP.

None of the recent haswell ultras like the Vaio pro or the S7 have DP. It's largely what is stopping me from purchasing a haswell notebook right now.

 

[Infohawk]

because for every 1 person who might want what DP can offer that HDMI cannot, there might be 99+ that would do just fine with if not prefer the HDMI interface so that they don't have to deal with a special converter/chord

while it might suck, HDMI is deemed good enough and anything extra is deemed not worthwhile

kind of like how we're stuck with quadcore CPUs for the most part, or even for those wiling to pay a premium we're stuck with 6 core chips when there are 8+ core chips available (but aren't worthwhile because we can't overclock them and our overclocked 6 core chip is actually faster)

there's just not enough people or devices that demand DP over HDMI to make it commonplace

If the average joe is the concern here I still don't get it. How often do casual users want to hook up a tv just to watch a movie. If its about legacy monitors why not just provide an adapter? I'm just a little surprised that some of these next gen notebooks don't seem to care about being fully compatible with good monitors. Apple seems to be making the right move here.

 

[jpiniero]

How often do casual users want to hook up a tv just to watch a movie

I'm sure it's a lot more than people who have a 4K monitor at this point.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm sure it's a lot more than people who have a 4K monitor at this point.

Except that in practice you're talking about people who want a resolution over 1920x1200 as Throckmorton said, which means basically anyone who wants to be able to use a new external monitor. It's not like higher resolutions are some uncertain path like phyX or something. Resolutions are going to get higher.

 

[Anteaus]

The bottom line is the HDMI has pretty much become the defacto standard for digital display inputs. Early on there was a tangeable benefit to having DP but now with HDMI 1.4 here and HDMI 2.0 set to neutralize DP's technical advantage I don't see DP ever growing legs.

By the time 4K becomes mainstream HDMI 2.0 will be here and everyone will have full 4096X2160p60 so the argument will become moot.

Now if I can just get Lenovo to stop shipping with a stupid VGA connector I'll be overjoyed.

 

[Throckmorton]

The bottom line is the HDMI has pretty much become the defacto standard for digital display inputs. Early on there was a tangeable benefit to having DP but now with HDMI 1.4 here and HDMI 2.0 set to neutralize DP's technical advantage I don't see DP ever growing legs.

By the time 4K becomes mainstream HDMI 2.0 will be here and everyone will have full 4096X2160p60 so the argument will become moot.

Now if I can just get Lenovo to stop shipping with a stupid VGA connector I'll be overjoyed.

The existence of HDMI 2.0 is irrelevant unless high res screens start including that input, and computers start including the output.

Those monitors do have DP now, but laptops don't have the port. Why? Because for Windows laptops, mediocre is good enough.

 

[Mushkins]

If the average joe is the concern here I still don't get it. How often do casual users want to hook up a tv just to watch a movie. If its about legacy monitors why not just provide an adapter? I'm just a little surprised that some of these next gen notebooks don't seem to care about being fully compatible with good monitors. Apple seems to be making the right move here.

It's not about Average Joe home user, it's about Average Joe Business.

Tons of laptops still have a VGA port on the side. Why? Conference room projectors. This is the same thing, you're not seeing conference rooms with the latest projectors and TVs that are using displayport, and IT departments don't have boxes of displayport cables sitting around. HDMI insures maximum compatibility with whatever is in the conference room these days, and if Joe Businessman forgets his HDMI cable, odds are he can stop by IT on his way to the meeting and borrow one. It has nothing to do with what the standards support or 4k monitors or whatever, its all about business.

 

[nitromullet]

The whole video output thing for Haswell motherboards doesn't make any sense to me either. My board has HDMI, DVI, and DP; but the only one of these that can output a resolution higher than 1920x1200 is the DP. So, DP is a must for anyone with a larger screen.

As an aside, why wouldn't they make the DVI a dual link DVI? DVI is still pretty ubiquitous on displays, dual link technology has been around for a long time, and the Haswell iGPU has no problems with resolutions above 1920x1200.

 

[nitromullet]

It's not about Average Joe home user, it's about Average Joe Business.

Tons of laptops still have a VGA port on the side. Why? Conference room projectors. This is the same thing, you're not seeing conference rooms with the latest projectors and TVs that are using displayport, and IT departments don't have boxes of displayport cables sitting around. HDMI insures maximum compatibility with whatever is in the conference room these days, and if Joe Businessman forgets his HDMI cable, odds are he can stop by IT on his way to the meeting and borrow one. It has nothing to do with what the standards support or 4k monitors or whatever, its all about business.

Funny that you say this. It's true, but at most of the companies I've worked at anyone above Director level in management is using Apple. Macbook Pro, iPad, and an iPhone. You can always pick out the important folks because they are gilded with brushed aluminum.

 

[Infohawk]

Funny that you say this. It's true, but at most of the companies I've worked at anyone above Director level in management is using Apple. Macbook Pro, iPad, and an iPhone. You can always pick out the important folks because they are gilded with brushed aluminum.

And also the fact that it seems to be a lot of the business laptops that are offering DisplayPort suggests business actually wants it. Also, aren't business users more likely to want to attach external monitors?

 

[corkyg]

Your premise is backed up by the premier business line, Lenovo T430, T530, and W530 all have mini Displayport with Audio. And for legacy connections, VGA ports. No HDMI. As for the last question, my experience is maybe. The most likely connection I have used is a projector.

Anyway, perhaps display port is not as rare as you initially contended.

 

[Remobz]

I wish my laptop had a DP

 

[Anteaus]

The existence of HDMI 2.0 is irrelevant unless high res screens start including that input, and computers start including the output.

Those monitors do have DP now, but laptops don't have the port. Why? Because for Windows laptops, mediocre is good enough.

Well once 2.0 is officially released it will be quickly adopted as it offers something critical tv makers need...1.4 only does 30 FPS at 4K which is inadequate for 3D...with 2.0 they can do the full 30/30 needed for current 3D.

You make a good point though.

 

[holden j caufield]

almost all business laptops I have had come with displayport.

 

[alexruiz]

In theory all kinds of magical things are possible on all kinds of port. In real life, you can't do 2560x1440 much less 2560x1600 with HDMI.

I can tell you that the current crop of video cads can do 1440p through HDMI, I have seen it. The kicker? The cable! I had a a supposedly "hdmi 1.3" cable that was never able to drive the monitor above 1920 x 1080, so I always got on the mindset that HDMI wasn't capable. One day, by accident, I tried a cheapo monoprice cable, and boom, here it goes, 2560 x 1440.

For laptops, I would imagine anything sporting a Trinity or Richland APU will be able to drive 2560 x 1440 fully through HDMI. I am not so sure about older machines, or Intel ones

Edit: Back on topic, business class laptops usually have DP instead of HDMI. My HP Probook 6475b (A10-4600m) has DP, and drives the 2560 x 1440 beautifully!

 

[Infohawk]

I can tell you that the current crop of video cads can do 1440p through HDMI, I have seen it. The kicker? The cable! I had a a supposedly "hdmi 1.3" cable that was never able to drive the monitor above 1920 x 1080, so I always got on the mindset that HDMI wasn't capable. One day, by accident, I tried a cheapo monoprice cable, and boom, here it goes, 2560 x 1440.

For laptops, I would imagine anything sporting a Trinity or Richland APU will be able to drive 2560 x 1440 fully through HDMI. I am not so sure about older machines, or Intel ones

Edit: Back on topic, business class laptops usually have DP instead of HDMI. My HP Probook 6475b (A10-4600m) has DP, and drives the 2560 x 1440 beautifully!

From what I have seen in these newly released Haslweel ultrabooks, even if they have HDMI, the laptop will limit the resolution (I forget which one did, but it admitted so in the specifications). I think throckmorton is right in most cases. At best it seems like a hit-or-miss proposition. I imagine that this is one reason Apple includes it. You don't want customers having to hack together solutions to get a modern resolution. Also, doesn't DP have other benefits like being able to chain monitors?

Right now I'm waiting for a 13" or 14" Haswell touchscreen PC laptop that can be used with a new external monitor. I haven't seen any, but let me know if you have. I'm hoping they will be out in September.