Why is cereal a breakfast staple?

[RPD]

It's also relatively easy to seize the means of egg production as long as code allows it, thereby skipping the factory farm conditions.

Uhmm, OK? Not sure what this has to do with the conversation at hand.

 

[Torn Mind]

Uhmm, OK? Not sure what this has to do with the conversation at hand.

That guy, mike, has a cadence that suggests he is a vegetarian or vegan.

My feelings towards that movement is rather tepid, because it has some noble intentions but misses the mark; the "pop" foods like cereal and the Impossible burgers are also lolprocessed as hell. .

Kellogg was also a vegetarian as well, and the cereal legacy can be best described as "did not deliver" if it was to be better than the 19th century American diet it replacement.

 

[mike8675309]

I don't care if they can or can't be legally advertised as healthy. They are. Is that the bar, because of legal mumbo jumbo (again assuming this is even true) they aren't? You can claim almost ANYTHING is healthy by adding "part of a healthy breakfast". But hey, solid logic!
Can they claim water is healthy? Too much of anything isn't healthy.

Lol... On the basis of concerns from the American Heart Association and consumer groups, the Federal Trade Commission carried out successful legal action—upheld by the Supreme Court—to compel the egg industry to cease and desist from false and misleading advertising that eggs had no harmful effects on health.
But you go ahead, claim everything you like is healthy, everything you are afraid of is not healthy, and see how far that takes you. Perhaps you won the genetic lottery and will be like those people who live well over 100 years old smoking every day of their life.

 

[Torn Mind]

Lol... On the basis of concerns from the American Heart Association and consumer groups, the Federal Trade Commission carried out successful legal action—upheld by the Supreme Court—to compel the egg industry to cease and desist from false and misleading advertising that eggs had no harmful effects on health.
But you go ahead, claim everything you like is healthy, everything you are afraid of is not healthy, and see how far that takes you. Perhaps you won the genetic lottery and will be like those people who live well over 100 years old smoking every day of their life.

This making authority look stronger than it is by using tertiary distance. The argument boils down simply to appeal to authority. The reason eggs are not allowed to be advertised as healthy is simple and due to the fat and cholesterol content. Thus whatever supposed negatives are due to those substances. Substances that were successfully taboos by industries that stood to benefit from the more addicting and difficult to control alternatives. Eggs are stuffy and bland foods, which easily stuff the appetite of eaten alone. They are not that bad by the nature they are dentally neutral.

 

[RPD]

Lol... On the basis of concerns from the American Heart Association and consumer groups, the Federal Trade Commission carried out successful legal action—upheld by the Supreme Court—to compel the egg industry to cease and desist from false and misleading advertising that eggs had no harmful effects on health.
But you go ahead, claim everything you like is healthy, everything you are afraid of is not healthy, and see how far that takes you. Perhaps you won the genetic lottery and will be like those people who live well over 100 years old smoking every day of their life.

Wow jumping around a lot here, but hey you sound like you are in the one egg is equal to a cigarette type person based on this angry post. Anything you consume can have a harmful effect on health.

Calm down.

 

[Gardener]

Oh absolutely. And generally reinforced as a kid, where fun, sugary cereals hook you and it just becomes a habit. Don't get me wrong, I regularly have cereal for breakfast (usually a small portion on top of greek yogurt, similar to granola with yogurt) but slamming back 500 calories of pure carbohydrates in the morning is terrible.

Saturday morning cartoons selling sugar, to children, for breakfast. Save those cereal boxtops, 10 = 1 free type-2 diabetes.

 

[Torn Mind]

Saturday morning cartoons selling sugar, to children, for breakfast. Save those cereal boxtops, 10 = 1 free type-2 diabetes.

Cavities, blood vessel inflammation, P. gingvalis leading to Alzheimer's.
Raisin Bran seduced me. sometimes. lol

Thankfully, not that much because cereal is generally a shitty tasting food even with "frosted flakes", "cinnamon", or "honey nut". The cinna cereals are the most evil in making my palette want to eat them.

 

[mike8675309]

This making authority look stronger than it is by using tertiary distance. The argument boils down simply to appeal to authority. The reason eggs are not allowed to be advertised as healthy is simple and due to the fat and cholesterol content. Thus whatever supposed negatives are due to those substances. Substances that were successfully taboos by industries that stood to benefit from the more addicting and difficult to control alternatives. Eggs are stuffy and bland foods, which easily stuff the appetite of eaten alone. They are not that bad by the nature they are dentally neutral.

Choose to believe what you will. The reality is that we have a health crisis in America caused in large part by our food systems and what we eat. As we continue to identify those foods which help the human body and those that hurt the human body we will continue to see pushback from existing industries threatened by our growing knowledge. I'm not going to try and say that eating one or two eggs is going to cause heart disease. But let's be intellectually honest, who is eating a 2 egg omelet? Eggs come in cartons of a dozen, most people I know are using 3 or 4 eggs in a meal, 4 to 7 days a week. Even egg industry-funded studies show that such a volume of eggs is unhealthy. Add processed meat products to that meal and the negative health risk dramatically increases.

You need to look further into why Eggs have a limitation on how they can be advertised. The Egg industry abused the advertising industry for years, paying doctors and scientists to say almost anything including life extension used in their advertising.

Wow jumping around a lot here, but hey you sound like you are in the one egg is equal to a cigarette type person based on this angry post. Anything you consume can have a harmful effect on health.

Calm down.

Always calm, the reality remains that you can't call eggs healthy. They simply are not, particularly in how they are used in most American homes today. If you eat a single hard-boiled egg every day for breakfast, most people have a body that will process that just fine. Eat 3 every day with some sausage or a steak, and the most genetically gifted body will increase their risk for heart disease.

Have you all seen the cadaver studies performed on Korean War soldiers and what was found? This was from a time when eggs and bacon and sausage were a primary breakfast meal in much of the country.

Autopsies performed on casualties of the Korean War revealed coronary artery involvement in 77.3% of the hearts studied, and data after the Vietnam War noted the presence of atherosclerosis in 45% of casualties with severe disease in 5%, suggesting a decline in the prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in young men.

Manifestations of coronary atherosclerosis in young trauma victims--an autopsy study - PubMed

The overall prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in a young, predominantly male study group was comparable with that noted after the Korean War. Left main or significant two- and three-vessel involvement was noted in 20% of the group studied and emphasizes the need for aggressive risk factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[maluckey1]

@mike8675309 (catchy tune that was BTW!!!)

Not sure what you have against eggs. Nutritional value of eggs varies widely based on the source and environment in which the chickens are raised. That being said....nobody is suggesting to eat 3-4 eggs every day, and nobody suggests eating 1 lb. of broccoli per day either. Homo Sapiens are not meant to be vegetarians, nor are we hypercarnivores. None of the great apes are. Anything in-between is likely not going to kill you rapidly.

I fail to see any relevance of a cardiac study of veterans to nutrition (I read it). The study is observational and generally without any variables being controlled, other than being a veteran. No rocket scientist needed to see that soldiers exposed to extreme stress show increased cardiovascular damage. Common sense.

This whole thread is commenting on food industries cultism, greed and lies. The industries and government lobbyists are not our friends any more than the manufacturers. It's a business, and business doesn't care about you so long as the business is legal. We know sheeple aren't thinking about proper diets because they find their food cult/food addiction and they almost religiously stick to it even up until death. Eat a wide variety of foods, avoid highly processed food (plant-based or otherwise) and it's likely that you'll not suffer for it.

As for the myriad of companies and individual exploiting fear and nutritional lies/fantasies? Business is seemingly good, and YouTubers are getting filthy rich.

 

[RPD]

Choose to believe what you will. The reality is that we have a health crisis in America caused in large part by our food systems and what we eat. As we continue to identify those foods which help the human body and those that hurt the human body we will continue to see pushback from existing industries threatened by our growing knowledge. I'm not going to try and say that eating one or two eggs is going to cause heart disease. But let's be intellectually honest, who is eating a 2 egg omelet? Eggs come in cartons of a dozen, most people I know are using 3 or 4 eggs in a meal, 4 to 7 days a week. Even egg industry-funded studies show that such a volume of eggs is unhealthy. Add processed meat products to that meal and the negative health risk dramatically increases.

You need to look further into why Eggs have a limitation on how they can be advertised. The Egg industry abused the advertising industry for years, paying doctors and scientists to say almost anything including life extension used in their advertising.



Always calm, the reality remains that you can't call eggs healthy. They simply are not, particularly in how they are used in most American homes today. If you eat a single hard-boiled egg every day for breakfast, most people have a body that will process that just fine. Eat 3 every day with some sausage or a steak, and the most genetically gifted body will increase their risk for heart disease.

Have you all seen the cadaver studies performed on Korean War soldiers and what was found? This was from a time when eggs and bacon and sausage were a primary breakfast meal in much of the country.

Manifestations of coronary atherosclerosis in young trauma victims--an autopsy study - PubMed

The overall prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in a young, predominantly male study group was comparable with that noted after the Korean War. Left main or significant two- and three-vessel involvement was noted in 20% of the group studied and emphasizes the need for aggressive risk factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pretty much what @maluckey1 said, but to add the nation was MUCH healthier when the breakfast of choice was some eggs and bacon, maybe some toast. Not today when it's a bowl of carbs and sugar topped with more liquid sugar (milk). Most people consume entirely waaaaaay too many carbs and sugar; but have become almost completely unaware they are doing it. If people cut their carbs(sugar) to a reasonable level, that alone would solve most weight issues.

 

[maluckey1]

To clarify if anyone is unclear.

I'm not against carbs, vegetables, meats, insects, eggs, fruit or ANY food. I'm saying that any food can be dangerous to one's health if you are irresponsible. It's a fact that eating a diet of fruits is likely OK for a day or two, as is eating hamburgers. The issue comes when people fail to react to their own bodies telling them that they're basically morons. Being overweight, diabetes, nutrient deficiencies, hormonal imbalances etc. are all telling signs that we are ignoring the facts that we are unhealthy.

Of course it's not all nutrition. Failure to be active is also very dangerous to ones health and also carries significant risk. Nobody is saying that running long distances/time everyday is healthy, but neither is sitting all day. Gray areas are generally our downfall, because nobody likes to use their brain and actually think about things when the marketing is sooooooooo good and entertaining. It often tells us what we want to hear, thus confirming our choices and removing any doubts. And could also kill us if we fail to react to our own bodies telling us that we are stupid.

 

[Torn Mind]

Choose to believe what you will. The reality is that we have a health crisis in America caused in large part by our food systems and what we eat. As we continue to identify those foods which help the human body and those that hurt the human body we will continue to see pushback from existing industries threatened by our growing knowledge. I'm not going to try and say that eating one or two eggs is going to cause heart disease. But let's be intellectually honest, who is eating a 2 egg omelet? Eggs come in cartons of a dozen, most people I know are using 3 or 4 eggs in a meal, 4 to 7 days a week. Even egg industry-funded studies show that such a volume of eggs is unhealthy. Add processed meat products to that meal and the negative health risk dramatically increases.

You need to look further into why Eggs have a limitation on how they can be advertised. The Egg industry abused the advertising industry for years, paying doctors and scientists to say almost anything including life extension used in their advertising.



Always calm, the reality remains that you can't call eggs healthy. They simply are not, particularly in how they are used in most American homes today. If you eat a single hard-boiled egg every day for breakfast, most people have a body that will process that just fine. Eat 3 every day with some sausage or a steak, and the most genetically gifted body will increase their risk for heart disease.

Have you all seen the cadaver studies performed on Korean War soldiers and what was found? This was from a time when eggs and bacon and sausage were a primary breakfast meal in much of the country.

Manifestations of coronary atherosclerosis in young trauma victims--an autopsy study - PubMed

The overall prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in a young, predominantly male study group was comparable with that noted after the Korean War. Left main or significant two- and three-vessel involvement was noted in 20% of the group studied and emphasizes the need for aggressive risk factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Don't try to make your statement more "authoritative" by obfuscating the original basis of ban, which is due to the fat and cholesterol content of the eggs. The basis has had counter momentum recently, paving the road back to what John Yudkin tried to inform the public back in the 70s, but he got shut down. Rather than point to the basis, you are trying through emotional manipulation that eggs are unhealthy because that can't be advertised as healthy. Nope. It just means they couldn't meet the definition by the FDA. There are other definitions of healthy that are not the same as

You say from a time, but did you get the actual dietary profile from the cadavers? Because sugar has also been a Western staple and the maladies it causes to teeth is why dentistry even exists as an occupation and is profitable as it is(sealants wouldn't be necessary if the right foods were eaten).

The scientific "proofs" in most nutritional advice do not match with the legal equivalent of beyond a reasonable doubt, but actually "reasonable grounds" or "preponderance of the evidence". Contrary to grade school education, not all science assertions has obtained "beyond a reasonable doubt", and nutrition is rife with such assertion.

Eggs themselves are sort of life-beneficial food. Food for the baby chicken had it been fertilized.

The Terrell Owens diet involves 12 eggs a day along with vegetables and meat. As far as bodies, his healing powers and athleticism was very good. Better than normal given he played on a broken leg in the Super Bowl.

The trans fats, sugars, and food pyramid of the 90s only exacerbated the problem? All in pursuit of low fat, or no fat. Saturated fat. And people don't always get the new news, so many who got that info in the 90s are still eating in a manner most conducive to developing diabetes, obesity, etc.
Your right, the system is designed to cause harm. By carbs and sugar. The stigmatization extended to fats and cholesterol based on correlation, not causation. The same is not extended to sugar-laden foods and drinks. Vitamins like the Flintstones are sweetened up, Muscle milk is loaded with sugar. IT's far easier to down four éclairs, a bag of potato chips, and then some pasta with sauce than an entire dozen eggs and repeat for lunch and dinner.



Really, you say eggs, bacon, and sausage as one variable when they are three different foods with different compositions. Don't blame the egg for the effects of the nitrates in the bacon and the colossal mess that is sausage.

The preservatives in bacon and processed meats are the likely major problem substances.

What you are parroting is the cookie cutter standard messaging that's been present since Keyes published his research.

 

[mike8675309]

Pretty much what @maluckey1 said, but to add the nation was MUCH healthier when the breakfast of choice was some eggs and bacon, maybe some toast. Not today when it's a bowl of carbs and sugar topped with more liquid sugar (milk). Most people consume entirely waaaaaay too many carbs and sugar; but have become almost completely unaware they are doing it. If people cut their carbs(sugar) to a reasonable level, that alone would solve most weight issues.

I lolled big on that one. The Korean War ended in July of 1953. The average life expectancy of Americans in 1955 was 68.71. That same number in 2015 was 78.94, dropping to 78.81 in 2020 Healthier people die sooner? If people were to cut out processed foods entirely, they would go a long way to helping their bodies.

...

You say from a time, but did you get the actual dietary profile from the cadavers? Because sugar has also been a Western staple and the maladies it causes to teeth is why dentistry even exists as an occupation and as profitable as it is(sealants wouldn't be necessary if the right foods were eaten).
...

Eggs themselves are a sort of life-beneficial food. Food for the baby chicken had it been fertilized.
...
The Terrell Owens diet involves 12 eggs a day along with vegetables and meat. As far as bodies, his healing powers and athleticism was very good. Better than normal given he played on a broken leg in the Super Bowl.
...
Really, you say eggs, bacon, and sausage as one variable when they are three different foods with different compositions. Don't blame the egg for the effects of the nitrates in the bacon and the colossal mess that is sausage.

The preservatives in bacon and processed meats are the likely major problem substances.

What you are parroting is the cookie-cutter standard messaging that's been present since Keyes published his research.

Let's go through the only interesting things one by one. If you read the abstract, you didn't go far enough. That study is free to read in PDF format. In it they show they found actual coronary artery blockage in the coronary arteries of the young soldiers all under 35years old, with many under 25. They include stained sections of the artery showing the fatty deposits building inside the artery wall. That's something that builds up over time. As reported in that study for most children who die, those over 3 years old, they will see fatty streaks in the arteries, which was in the 80's. Vascular disease is not something that happens overnight, it is something that builds up over time.

Are you trying to say that your metabolic system operates similar to that of a baby chicken?

Are you now trying to say that your metabolic system is equivalent to that of Terrel Owens? have you had your metabolic stats checked? (bp, cholesterol, a1c)

when I mention that bacon and sausage make eggs even less healthful it is due to the saturated fat in bacon and sausage. Dietary cholesterol on its own is self-controlled for the most part (and in most humans), but when you add saturated fat along with the cholesterol intake, something else happens to cause serum cholesterol to increase in a way it wouldn't without the saturated fat. One or two eggs by themselves don't have enough saturated fat alone to trigger the response.

Just because everyone is saying it, doesn't make it cookie-cutter. It just might make it something worth listening to. the current egg science is well described in this post from Harvard education. Personally if it is between cutting out fast food, processed food and eating eggs, I would say eat the eggs. Processed food by far is responsible for the greatest health risk today. But that still doesn't mean eggs are a health food.
Are eggs risky for heart health? - Harvard Health

 

[Gardener]

Cavities, blood vessel inflammation, P. gingvalis leading to Alzheimer's.
Raisin Bran seduced me. sometimes. lol

Thankfully, not that much because cereal is generally a shitty tasting food even with "frosted flakes", "cinnamon", or "honey nut". The cinna cereals are the most evil in making my palette want to eat them.

I think it is accurate to call refined sugar a drug, has all the hallmarks of an addictive substance. We did not evolve with it as a part of our regular diet.

 

[RPD]

I lolled big on that one. The Korean War ended in July of 1953. The average life expectancy of Americans in 1955 was 68.71. That same number in 2015 was 78.94, dropping to 78.81 in 2020 Healthier people die sooner? If people were to cut out processed foods entirely, they would go a long way to helping their bodies.

Haha really? Because that was the only change that happened? Are you always this intellectually dishonest? No other medical advancements, just people started eating less eggs and bam, they lived longer?

 

[herm0016]

every morning, i eat 2 eggs laid in the last 3 or 4 days by the chickens in my backyard that free range almost every day, sometimes with a slab of traditionally cured country ham. The ingredients are time, salt, and porky the pig. and a cup of strong black coffee.

y'all make it sound like ill die young. haha.

 

[Gardener]

The Harvard study Mike quoted says eating 2 eggs, 2-3 times a week, shows no increase in coronary artery disease. That works for me.

 

[mike8675309]

every morning, i eat 2 eggs laid in the last 3 or 4 days by the chickens in my backyard that free range almost every day, sometimes with a slab of traditionally cured country ham. The ingredients are time, salt, and porky the pig. and a cup of strong black coffee.

y'all make it sound like ill die young. haha.

It's not about when anyone dies. This entire discussion was started when someone claimed that their meal of eggs was more healthy than one of cereal. I simply pointed out that eggs are not a health food. Why people wish to argue that they are health foods I do not comprehend other than they have some money in egg stocks.

Fat people die every day of coronary artery disease, skinny people die every day of coronary artery disease, rich people, poor people. it's the one disease that crosses all socioeconomic boundaries. It's the number one killer of Americans. Keep your cholesterol low, keep your blood pressure low, and keep your A1C low, and exercise regularly and you have a better chance of living a long time than if you have high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or high a1c.

 

[Torn Mind]

every morning, i eat 2 eggs laid in the last 3 or 4 days by the chickens in my backyard that free range almost every day, sometimes with a slab of traditionally cured country ham. The ingredients are time, salt, and porky the pig. and a cup of strong black coffee.

y'all make it sound like ill die young. haha.

Even in NY, chickens are allowed by code.

My mom actually had chickens in Shanghai way back when. Then the code changed thanks to the commies and such livestock well...were no longer permitted. So she had to slay them. She still mentions she knows the technique of chicken slaying.

 

[Torn Mind]

I lolled big on that one. The Korean War ended in July of 1953. The average life expectancy of Americans in 1955 was 68.71. That same number in 2015 was 78.94, dropping to 78.81 in 2020 Healthier people die sooner? If people were to cut out processed foods entirely, they would go a long way to helping their bodies.




Let's go through the only interesting things one by one. If you read the abstract, you didn't go far enough. That study is free to read in PDF format. In it they show they found actual coronary artery blockage in the coronary arteries of the young soldiers all under 35years old, with many under 25. They include stained sections of the artery showing the fatty deposits building inside the artery wall. That's something that builds up over time. As reported in that study for most children who die, those over 3 years old, they will see fatty streaks in the arteries, which was in the 80's. Vascular disease is not something that happens overnight, it is something that builds up over time.

Five of the 100 had cholesterol greater than 200mg/dl.

The conclusions of the study do not support your assertions simply because the scope of the study never went that far. In the conclusion, it is stated smoking and a family history of heart disease were observed risk factors while BMI was not. The entirety of the actual conclusion is about as blasé and noncontroversial as it gets.

It's clear the scope of the study itself is does not have a logical link to your various conclusions you are trying to pass.

Then there's the matter of sampling. A representative population would involved taking a few thousand living college students and killing them all to examine their hearts(with all bloodwork, diet, etc taken prior). What has been selected as those who went to war, put through rigorous exercise, and got killed in combat.

Sure, plaque builds up in the arteries early; that's all that the study established. Along with letting the world know "Difference in methodology have made it impractical to assess whether differences in the incidence of coronary artery disease in the young represent a real decrease in coronary atherosclerosis."

The risk factors for coronary atherosclerosis section lists the point out numerous correlated variables established by other studies. But that is all it is. Risk factors are not synonymous with causal variables. No established mechanism of cause is proposed in this study. More like, since there is a correlation, manipulating variable X may reduce variable Y despite not knowing the cause. This standard of proof is indeed on the level of "reasonable grounds" or "preponderance of the evidence", not even "clear and convincing" and definitely not "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

[mike8675309]

Five of the 100 had cholesterol greater than 200mg/dl.

The conclusions of the study do not support your assertions simply because the scope of the study never went that far. In the conclusion, it is stated smoking and a family history of heart disease were observed risk factors while BMI was not. The entirety of the actual conclusion is about as blasé and noncontroversial as it gets.

It's clear the scope of the study itself is does not have a logical link to your various conclusions you are trying to pass.

Then there's the matter of sampling. A representative population would involved taking a few thousand living college students and killing them all to examine their hearts(with all bloodwork, diet, etc taken prior). What has been selected as those who went to war, put through rigorous exercise, and got killed in combat.

Sure, plaque builds up in the arteries early; that's all that the study established. Along with letting the world know "Difference in methodology have made it impractical to assess whether differences in the incidence of coronary artery disease in the young represent a real decrease in coronary atherosclerosis."

The risk factors for coronary atherosclerosis section lists the point out numerous correlated variables established by other studies. But that is all it is. Risk factors are not synonymous with causal variables. No established mechanism of cause is proposed in this study. More like, since there is a correlation, manipulating variable X may reduce variable Y despite not knowing the cause. This standard of proof is indeed on the level of "reasonable grounds" or "preponderance of the evidence", not even "clear and convincing" and definitely not "beyond a reasonable doubt".

What the study allowed the medical community to understand is that seeing the growth of coronary artery disease in the population isn't an overnight thing. Our arteries don't become blocked because of a single meal, a single choice. As you may know, our body is tremendously powerful at keeping itself alive (in most people). There are metabolic systems to help keep our arteries clear. Thus a single choice generally doesn't add additional health risks. But the ongoing, day after day, meal after meal choices that Americans make overwhelms our bodies systems. This results in increased risk for Type 2 Diabetes, and increased risk for heart attack.
Remember, we already know that a plant predominant diet promotes long life by looking at the studies in the blue zones of the world. Places before they were touched by western diets where the longest-lived people reside. Diet isn't the only environmental factor in a long life, yet it is one of the easiest for many of us to control.

 

[Torn Mind]

What the study allowed the medical community to understand is that seeing the growth of coronary artery disease in the population isn't an overnight thing. Our arteries don't become blocked because of a single meal, a single choice. As you may know, our body is tremendously powerful at keeping itself alive (in most people). There are metabolic systems to help keep our arteries clear. Thus a single choice generally doesn't add additional health risks. But the ongoing, day after day, meal after meal choices that Americans make overwhelms our bodies systems. This results in increased risk for Type 2 Diabetes, and increased risk for heart attack.
Remember, we already know that a plant predominant diet promotes long life by looking at the studies in the blue zones of the world. Places before they were touched by western diets where the longest-lived people reside. Diet isn't the only environmental factor in a long life, yet it is one of the easiest for many of us to control.

It's extremely simplistic to classify foods based solely on the Kingdom they are in, as if there is no variety in chemical composition. Something like ground elk is far better food than most of the stuff in the store.


You are not talking to a lay person with no scientific education. The studies you toss out to make your quasi-scripture-like statements for your plant-favoring and anti-meat biases do not actually support the numerous bold utterances you have tossed out in this thread. Furthermore, you are constantly omitting information and throwing out other acts of sophistry in an attempt to make your points seem grander than they actually are. Nuances and specifics foods are not mentioned.

Even if the "blue zones" have people with long life, the definitive variable behind their longevity may very well be the avoidance of the sugary foods and processed and that integration of more "well raised meat" like elk will not cause a statistically significant different in longevity.

7 Science-Backed Lessons We Learned From the Real Mediterranean Diet

The real Mediterranean Diet was first studied on the Greek island of Crete. We took a closer look at the research to find out why it was so healthy and how you can make it work for you at home. Here are 7 important takeaways from the islanders diet and lifestyle.

www.eatingwell.com

Real greens and miserable tasting food, reflective of the austerity of real, environmentally forced vegetarianism rather than whatever "Impossible Burgers", American processed soytoys, other "luxury vegan" options. Trans fats and sugar also should be considered by plant-based since that is where they are sourced. If one wants to think that generally that all plants are worth eating, then there is no logical basis for exceptions.


Even Healthline's Mediterranean diet recomendations include eggs, yougurt, and even a Mediterranean pizza. I mention this because you brought up "blue zone" diets. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/mediterranean-diet-meal-plan#eating-out

What I take from the "Mediterranean diet" is that it's good because the food is unprocessed and holistically has a useful nutrient profile. It is a diet lacking in "pleasurable eating", which makes sense as vegatables do not please the taste buds. SO the researchers had to make the recommendations more "general" than say "adopt the Cretan diet in toto"; not many Americans eat dandelion like the article mentions.

Mediterranean Diet Month: The Diet of the Cretan Great Grandmother who lived to be 99.

Manolis Manolarakis, Dietitian and President of the Union of Dietitians and Nutritionists of Greece, describes the diet of his great-grandmother from Crete who lived to be 99 years old. My beloved great-grandmother (in Greek pro-yiayia) Aristea and my great-grandfather were two of the many...

www.olivetomato.com

Now this is probably an article as close to primary source as it gets, as the author talks about the diet of his 99-year grandmother. Yes, it is predmoinantly plants but what does he mentions as a protein source? Chickens, and their eggs. The diet also did include milk in the diet, although since they raised goats, it's goat milk.

Their source of meat and animal protein were the chickens and their eggs (even today there are several chickens that provide eggs and meat for my children). There were 4-5 goats and through breeding provided red meat and milk for children. They also consumed fish often, and rarely ate beef or other red meat.

The stronger, more probable takeaway from going truly Mediterranean is that less refined shit and whole foods from both Kingdom Plantae and Animalia likely can go a long way.

 

[MrSquished]

Eggs and bacon for breakfast. Marketing.