Why is Anesthesiology median salary so high?

[dafatha00]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Oohhh my bad I misunderstood you

No problem.

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Specialized nursing huh?

:roll:

Yeah. Its why healthcare is unaffordable. You can blame the insurance companies, the lawyers, whatever. I blame ridiculous salaries.

Physicians spend 4 years in medical school and 4-5 years in residency depending on their specialization. The process is extremely intense. If they weren't paid high salaries, who would ever think about going to med school?

You have a point. How about 75k, plus student loan reimbursement and pooled insurance risk for all health care employees.

Ever heard of the concept of a free market economy? If we implemented your suggestion into society, I guarantee you we would have a huge shortage of physicians.

Well a very large part of a physician's salary goes towards paying off all of those student loans and also insurance coverage. If they were reimbursed for their student loans and malpractice lawsuits were capped, they would take a significant paycut and still be coming out with a similar net income.

Using the figures provided above, the average Anesthesiologist is paid about 250k a year. Please provide statistics showing that Anesthesiologists pay 175k a year for student loans and insurance coverage.

Well from just talking to the physicians at work, most of them come out of medical school/internship/residency with anywhere from 100-200K+ in debt. Factor in cost of living, car, food, etc etc. It does add up. As someone who works in a hospital I think they are paid what they deserve, probably a biased opinion on wages but I see what they do every day.

You're misconstruing my point. I'm advocating that physicians are indeed paid what they deserve. However, I don't believe that their net income after paying off their student loans and covering their insurance costs is a mere 75k. On a side note, cost of living is a moot point because all people have to pay that.

I also agree with you that they net more than 75k. I was just trying to say a very large chunk is loans and insurance.

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Very good points BUrassler.

Thank you!

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
What is the difference between an anesthetist and an anasthesiologist??

Never heard of an anesthetist...

EDIT: apparently it is a british anasthesiologist.

Heh, ok.
I was just wondering because there was a girl back in high school who wanted specifically to be an anesthetist, rather than an anethesiologist.

 

[hdeck]

bc they are messing w/ ppl's spines and stuff. dangerous stuff.

 

[dafatha00]

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Specialized nursing huh?

:roll:

Yeah. Its why healthcare is unaffordable. You can blame the insurance companies, the lawyers, whatever. I blame ridiculous salaries.

Physicians spend 4 years in medical school and 4-5 years in residency depending on their specialization. The process is extremely intense. If they weren't paid high salaries, who would ever think about going to med school?

You have a point. How about 75k, plus student loan reimbursement and pooled insurance risk for all health care employees.

Ever heard of the concept of a free market economy? If we implemented your suggestion into society, I guarantee you we would have a huge shortage of physicians.

Well a very large part of a physician's salary goes towards paying off all of those student loans and also insurance coverage. If they were reimbursed for their student loans and malpractice lawsuits were capped, they would take a significant paycut and still be coming out with a similar net income.

Using the figures provided above, the average Anesthesiologist is paid about 250k a year. Please provide statistics showing that Anesthesiologists pay 175k a year for student loans and insurance coverage.

Well from just talking to the physicians at work, most of them come out of medical school/internship/residency with anywhere from 100-200K+ in debt. Factor in cost of living, car, food, etc etc. It does add up. As someone who works in a hospital I think they are paid what they deserve, probably a biased opinion on wages but I see what they do every day.

You're misconstruing my point. I'm advocating that physicians are indeed paid what they deserve. However, I don't believe that their net income after paying off their student loans and covering their insurance costs is a mere 75k. On a side note, cost of living is a moot point because all people have to pay that.

I also agree with you that they net more than 75k. I was just trying to say a very large chunk is loans and insurance.

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Sarcasm, right?

 

[FelixDeCat]

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

WHY can it be accomplished for less.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

LaVar Arrington can run around a football field and tackle people for a lot less than $7 mil/yr. He doesn't even have to pay for malpractice insurance or have 100k+ worth of education debt. So why doesn't he?

-Tom

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Sarcasm, right?

No, and Ive raised it to 75k plus student debt reimbursement over time (tax free) and pooled risk insurance for all medical employees. If you want, you can also add an annual $1000 bonus for every year of service to a max of $30k.

The base of 75k will also be adjusted annually by the average annual inflation rate for the previous year as compiled and released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

My goal is affordable healthcare for all Americans. I think we can make this happen sooner than you might think.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

LaVar Arrington can run around a football field and tackle people for a lot less than $7 mil/yr. He doesn't even have to pay for malpractice insurance or have 100k+ worth of education debt. So why doesn't he?

-Tom

Yes, but people need healthcare not football. By the way, that is why smaller teams pushed for and won salary caps in most games.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Sarcasm, right?

No, and Ive raised it to 75k plus student debt reimbursement over time (tax free) and pooled risk insurance for all medical employees. If you want, you can also add an annual $1000 bonus for every year of service to a max of $30k.

The base of 75k will also be adjusted annually by the average annual inflation rate for the previous year as compiled and released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

My goal is affordable healthcare for all Americans. I think we can make this happen sooner than you might think.

Changing salaries is NOT the way to do it. Do a little research first. And you never answered my other question.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
This is nothing more than specialized nursing, 50k max.

300k :roll:

Sarcasm, right?

No, and Ive raised it to 75k plus student debt reimbursement over time (tax free) and pooled risk insurance for all medical employees. If you want, you can also add an annual $1000 bonus for every year of service to a max of $30k.

The base of 75k will also be adjusted annually by the average annual inflation rate for the previous year as compiled and released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

My goal is affordable healthcare for all Americans. I think we can make this happen sooner than you might think.

Changing salaries is NOT the way to do it. Do a little research first. And you never answered my other question.

Getting salaries under control should be the first step. Clarify your previous question.

 

[dafatha00]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

Any job can/should be accomplished for a certain amount. Should professional athletes and entertainers by paid millions of dollars a year for what they do? Should a CEO of a huge corporation be paid millions of dollars a year? It's not a question of should they be paid that much. If that were the case, we might as well be considered communist.

The fact of the matter is that our economy dictates the way that salaries are allocated to occupations. If the government forced a cap on the salary of Anesthesiologists at 75k a year, we'd have a huge demand for more Anesthesiologists because no one would be willing to go through the med school process for that low of a pay. What would happen then? The pay would increase until the market hits equilibrium, which happens to be at about 250k a year. Everything balances out in a free market economy. Understand now?

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

WHY can it be accomplished for less.

There is my other question.

Actually controlling salaries is not the way to do it in healthcare. Like I said do some research first, figure out where the costs are coming from and i will tell you it's not from the salaries of health care workers.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

Any job can/should be accomplished for a certain amount. Should professional athletes and entertainers by paid millions of dollars a year for what they do? Should a CEO of a huge corporation be paid millions of dollars a year? It's not a question of should they be paid that much. If that were the case, we might as well be considered communist.

The fact of the matter is that our economy dictates the way that salaries are allocated to occupations. If the government forced a cap on the salary of Anesthesiologists at 75k a year, we'd have a huge demand for more Anesthesiologists because no one would be willing to go through the med school process for that low of a pay. What would happen then? The pay would increase until the market hits equilibrium, which happens to be at about 250k a year. Everything balances out in a free market economy. Understand now?

Athletes and doctors is an apples and oranges argument. Many countries have socialized medicine and are not communist. And you are assuming noone would want to do the job for 75k+cheap insurance and tax free debt reimbursement, adjusted for inflation plus bonus. Understand now?

 

[Parrotheader]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that many anesthesiologists also have practice areas outside of the more typical surgical procedures that most people associate them with.

My best friend is in his final year of residency as an anesthesiologist and pain management (administering medication on a longterm basis for people with severe pain problems, cancer victims, accident victims, etc.) is an increasingly large part of their duties as a lot of general practice and internal medicine MDs are now referring these patients to anesthesiologists as the incidents for malpractice lawsuits are high in this area. He already has several offers from groups specializing in that field.

And he will be making big bucks. No doubt about it. The first several years will go toward paying off his student loans. After that, I plan on mooching off him and enjoying free rounds of golf at whatever country club he later joins.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

LaVar Arrington can run around a football field and tackle people for a lot less than $7 mil/yr. He doesn't even have to pay for malpractice insurance or have 100k+ worth of education debt. So why doesn't he?

-Tom

Yes, but people need healthcare not football. By the way, that is why smaller teams pushed for and won salary caps in most games.

You're right.....but part of the point of my post was that Arrington is getting paid as much as he is because that's what the NY Giants believe he is worth. In a similar light, physicians and anesthetists are getting paid as much as they are because that is what the healthcare industry believes that they're worth. These physicians/anesthetists have an incredible responsibility for other peoples' lives, ridiculous malpractice insurance premiums to pay, and a good amount of educational debt.

-Tom

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

Any job can/should be accomplished for a certain amount. Should professional athletes and entertainers by paid millions of dollars a year for what they do? Should a CEO of a huge corporation be paid millions of dollars a year? It's not a question of should they be paid that much. If that were the case, we might as well be considered communist.

The fact of the matter is that our economy dictates the way that salaries are allocated to occupations. If the government forced a cap on the salary of Anesthesiologists at 75k a year, we'd have a huge demand for more Anesthesiologists because no one would be willing to go through the med school process for that low of a pay. What would happen then? The pay would increase until the market hits equilibrium, which happens to be at about 250k a year. Everything balances out in a free market economy. Understand now?

Athletes and doctors is an apples and oranges argument. Many countries have socialized medicine and are not communist. And you are assuming noone would want to do the job for 75k+cheap insurance and tax free debt reimbursement, adjusted for inflation plus bonus. Understand now?

Well why arent you doing it for 75k then?

 

[FelixDeCat]

WHY can it be accomplished for less.[?]

Because everything can be accomplished for less. What can we do reduce the expenses to accomplish this task? What amount of automation can be applied?

 

[alchemize]

I wonder who'd be willing to put themselves under the gas of a 50K a year anesthesiologist? I got folks that work for me that make more than that and they can barely program.

 

[dafatha00]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: dafatha00

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Right. I have no qualms with you on that point. If you noticed above, I was merely attacking FelixDeKat's contention that physicians should only be paid a net income of 75k.

I didnt say all physicians, I said anestheisiologists. And my argument wasnt with the fact that they "deserve" a certain amount, its that the job can / should be accomplished for alot less than it is now.

Any job can/should be accomplished for a certain amount. Should professional athletes and entertainers by paid millions of dollars a year for what they do? Should a CEO of a huge corporation be paid millions of dollars a year? It's not a question of should they be paid that much. If that were the case, we might as well be considered communist.

The fact of the matter is that our economy dictates the way that salaries are allocated to occupations. If the government forced a cap on the salary of Anesthesiologists at 75k a year, we'd have a huge demand for more Anesthesiologists because no one would be willing to go through the med school process for that low of a pay. What would happen then? The pay would increase until the market hits equilibrium, which happens to be at about 250k a year. Everything balances out in a free market economy. Understand now?

Athletes and doctors is an apples and oranges argument. Many countries have socialized medicine and are not communist. And you are assuming noone would want to do the job for 75k+cheap insurance and tax free debt reimbursement, adjusted for inflation plus bonus. Understand now?

I am absolutely asserting the argument that very few people would do the job for 75k + no insurance and tax free debt reimbursements + bonus. BTW, I love how you're slowly adding incentives to being an Anesthesiologist. (You started at 50k and changed to 75k plis no insurance/student free loans and then changed to add on adjusted inflation salary plus bonus).

Let me ask you this. Why would someone go through 4 years of college and 9 years of intense post graduate education to be paid 75k? A normal college graduate majoring in business with no post grad education would be paid about 90k-120k by the time they're 31, with no loans at all. On top of that, they'd have 9 years of income at which an anesthesiologist would forego by going to school. What incentive would people have to become anesthesiologists?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: BUrassler
They had a ton of variables they have to factor into their assesment when determining the amount of anestheia needed. To much and they can kill the person, too little and the person will not properly be sedated. If that happens, and they wake up in the midst of a surgery and move around, it can cause a tremendous amount of problems.

Modern anasthesia is very different than the old stuff....these days, it's much harder to overshoot or undershoot on dosage than it used to be.

 

[miniMUNCH]

This reminds me to state my top two steps to reduce the cost of healthcare:

1. Regulate drug advertizing and do not allow companies to advertize prescription drugs to patients via TV, radio, popular websites and magazines. In some cases, a third of the "operating cost" associated with a drug is due to advertizing. A central FDA run website would be set up that details all prescriptions drugs that are approved or in clinical trial for xyz symptoms and illnesses so it would be easy for doctors and patients to research drugs.

2. Get rid of malpractice insurance all together. Medical care would be "at risk". ..meaning prior to undergoing a surgery, etc. the patient is informed of the risks and are not allowed to sue except in really bad cases (wrong leg is cut off, etc.) Doctors would be regulated by an FDA-like oversight organization that would handle setting validation and education standards for practicing doctors/surgeons and handling disciplinary cases when doctors make mistakes

Why did I bother thinking all this out? Several of my friends and family members are doctors. My mom has worked in the health insurance industry for 20 years. And I used to work for a pharmaceutical company. So the healthcare industry has been a part of my life.