Why has race relations gotten worse when laws/policies are passed to try to make it..

[shady28]

It's not an assumption of IQ = violent.

Remember IQ is just a crude measurement of verbal & visual spacial abilities.

But what are we talking about when we talk about violent crime? It's people being put into stressful situations that led to a violent outcome.

If you are in a stressful situation, the first thing you do if you have the verbal skills is obviously to negotiate. But if you don't have a high IQ, and you can't negotiate your way out of something, you're going to panic and it's going to trigger your "Fight or Flight" reflex.

It's true people who have low IQ alone aren't generally violent. Obviously your other option is flight (escape). However testosterone level and resting heart rate are the other factors in conjunction with low IQ that typically trigger the Fight reflex. IIRC I believe there's a professor from the University of Florida's Biostatistics dept that has a book on this.

Have you ever looked at a study that controls for environment?

This is the thing missing from virtually every stupid-ass "study" done by either side when they have an agenda.

Let me give you some examples :

Blacks in sub-saharan Africa have an average IQ around 67

Blacks in Britain have an average IQ around 94

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't deny that you called me a racist, which is worth shit in this world considering your only purpose in this forum is to call people names and whine in any thread involving HRC. Hah!

The POV you expressed is fundamentally racist- that black people are inferior. You claimed it was scientific.

I don't think you can back that up at all, not in the slightest. Your repeated refusal to even try indicates that I'm probably right.

 

[someEEguy]

Your post is pretty typical of what I see when people fail to use their brain.

I refuted your post several posts ago. You merely regurgitated the same link to a WaPo article and a YouTube video. In other words, opinion pieces with facts mixed in.

I can give you links to other peoples opinions and YouTube videos, using the same information, where they came to opposite conclusions for similarly flawed reasons.

Is that what you call a debate?

Washington post is reputable to most people. The other is an NBC Dateline special “a pattern of suspicion” where they analyzed thousands of tickets (hosted by someone on vimeo because NBC redesigned their site).

To be clear, the above refers to these two links:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/
https://vimeo.com/49293876

 

[shady28]

Washington post is reputable to most people. The other is an NBC Dateline special “a pattern of suspicion” where they analyzed thousands of tickets (hosted by someone on vimeo because NBC redesigned their site).

To be clear, the above refers to these two links:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/
https://vimeo.com/49293876

Wow, ok let me explain something to you.

The Wasthington Post is not the source. The FBI statistics is the source. What you are citing as a "source" is someone's interpretation of factual data. In other words, it is someone else's take on that data.

That article completely fails to address external reasons why someone would be pulled over.

To give you a personal example - my step-son was busted for small qty marijuana possession. The reason was that he drove through a railroad crossing while the crossings were down, and of course a cop was on the other side of the RR tracks. Cop smells pot. Probable cause. etc etc.

So how many of those marijuana busts were initiated by something unrelated? Oh, don't know because the author never "thought" of that?

You get what I'm saying?

 

[someEEguy]

That article completely fails to address external reasons why someone would be pulled over.

Which is why I gave the second link as well, I thought we discussed this already.

Here it is again:
https://vimeo.com/49293876

 

[shady28]

Which is why I gave the second link as well, I thought we discussed this already.

Here it is again:
https://vimeo.com/49293876

So you have no opinions of your own?

 

[someEEguy]

So you have no opinions of your own?

I did not link this for the opinions expressed, but rather for the investigative reporting done.

 

[shady28]

I did not link this for the opinions expressed, but rather for the investigative reporting done.

Okay.

If that's how you want to 'debate' something.

'Don't Make the Black Kids Angry': The hoax of black victimization and those who enable it.

* You will read about a young mother with two children who found a group of black people burglarizing her home. After she called police, large groups of black people taunted, harassed, vandalized, threatened, and finally burned down her house
All while police shrugged their shoulder and said there was not much they could do. Hard to believe, you'll get a link to this 911 call, and you can hear it for yourself.
* You'll learn about the massive black on Asian violence against more than 1000 recent Asian immigrants that city officials blamed on Asian naivette and said that was not unusual because it happens to all immigrants.
* You'll read about about 40,000 black people destroying a tourist town because some said they "did not feel welcome."
* We'll see examples of widespread black mob violence in small towns. And in bigger places where people pride themselves on racial tolerance.
And what about the virulent black mob violence on Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, even Christmas. We'll see how widespread that is, how it has been happening for a long time.
And all the time will see how local media deny, ignore, condone, encourage, even lie about it.
* We'll visit college campuses, where students are soft targets. We'll learn how black student groups hate it when school records show that violent crime and robbery in and around campus is a black thing.
* We document large scale black mob violence at movie theaters and malls. And observe the enormous difference between what they say happened, and what the video show really happened.
* We'll see how black on white racial hostility in taught in thousands of schools around the country. How children learn that white racism is everywhere. All the time. And explains everything.
* We'll go into the inner chambers of the Society of Professional Journalists, and how they tell their members how to cover black crime and violence: Don't.
* We'll take a look at Black History Month, and how it is remembered with violence and denial.
* And we will meet the victims, one after another.

 

[someEEguy]

Okay.

If that's how you want to 'debate' something.

'Don't Make the Black Kids Angry': The hoax of black victimization and those who enable it.

Your post(s) seems emotion fueled and we’re going in circles here. So, I’ll just quote myself (as it mostly still applies).

You show nothing that disproves what I posted (but rather only attack the sources which are reputable to most people) and then give statistic about black people as a group.

So putting two and two together. I gather you are ceding to the point that black people (criminal and non-criminal a like) are targeted disproportionately (but unwilling to admit it). And are now arguing instead, that it’s justified given the statistics on the group as a whole (similar to Jaskalas). Correct?

 

[someEEguy]

The POV you expressed is fundamentally racist- that black people are inferior. You claimed it was scientific.

I don't think you can back that up at all, not in the slightest. Your repeated refusal to even try indicates that I'm probably right.

Maybe he’d spare African immigrants in his eugenics utopia.

African immigrants to the US are among the most educated groups in the United States. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is more than double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans.[17] According to the 2000 Census, the rate of college diploma acquisition is highest among Egyptian Americans at 59.7 percent, followed closely by Nigerian Americans at 58.6 percent.[18][19]

In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult white Americans and 3.8 percent of adult black Americans in the United States, respectively.[20] According to the 2000 Census, the percentage of Africans with a graduate degree is highest among Nigerian Americans at 28.3 percent, followed by Egyptian Americans at 23.8 percent.[18][19]

Of the African-born population in the US age 25 and older, 87.9% reported having a high school degree or higher,[21] compared with 78.8% of Asian-born immigrants and 76.8% of European-born immigrants, respectively.[22] Africans from Kenya (90.8 percent), Nigeria (89.1 percent), Ghana (85.9 percent), Botswana (84.7 percent), and Malawi (83 percent) were the most likely to report having a high school degree or higher.

Those born in Cape Verde (44.8 percent) and Mauritania (60.8 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education.[23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_the_United_States#Educational_attainment

 

[soulcougher73]

Camera's. Probably not any better or worse than they've always been.

 

[fskimospy]

Okay.

If that's how you want to 'debate' something.

'Don't Make the Black Kids Angry': The hoax of black victimization and those who enable it.

Ooh, quoting white nationalists who have been repeatedly busted for misusing statistics now. How fun!

 

[Genx87]

My take is relations havent got worse. But with the advent of the smart phone being a portable video camera people are more informed on how police encounters go wrong. This is highlighting a need for law enforcement reform. Social media makes it easier to organize protests as well imo.

My opinion is it will get worse before it gets better. But long term police reform will have to happen. That is a good thing. The result will be better for everybody.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ooh, quoting white nationalists who have been repeatedly busted for misusing statistics now. How fun!

He's still dancing away from the fundamental issue I asked him to clarify earlier- either blacks are inferior or there are other factors in play. His refusal to do so reveals the usual coy racism isn't really racism bullshit of the Right.

 

[Paratus]

He's still dancing away from the fundamental issue I asked him to clarify earlier- either blacks are inferior or there are other factors in play. His refusal to do so reveals the usual coy racism isn't really racism bullshit of the Right.

I wonder how he feels about the study referenced in this opinion piece correlating lower childhood IQ with increased racism. :hmm:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/millennial-media/201304/do-racism-conservatism-and-low-iq-go-hand-in-hand

Hodson and Busseri (2012) found in a correlational study that lower intelligence in childhood is predictive of greater racism in adulthood, with this effect being mediated (partially explained) through conservative ideology. They also found poor abstract reasoning skills were related to homophobic attitudes which was mediated through authoritarianism and low levels of intergroup contact.

What this study and those before it suggest is not necessarily that all liberals are geniuses and all conservatives are ignorant. Rather, it makes conclusions based off of averages of groups. The idea is that for those who lack a cognitive ability to grasp complexities of our world, strict-right wing ideologies may be more appealing. Dr. Brian Nosek explained it for the Huffington Post as follows, “ideologies get rid of the messiness and impose a simple solution. So, it may not be surprising that people with less cognitive capacity will be attracted to simplifying ideologies.” For an excellent continuation of this discussion and past studies, please see this article from LiveScience.

Note for the correlation <>causation brigade, the study is not saying racism is caused by low IQ but that low IQ can predict later racist tendencies.

 

[agent00f]

It's not an assumption of IQ = violent.

Remember IQ is just a crude measurement of verbal & visual spacial abilities.

But what are we talking about when we talk about violent crime? It's people being put into stressful situations that led to a violent outcome.

If you are in a stressful situation, the first thing you do if you have the verbal skills is obviously to negotiate. But if you don't have a high IQ, and you can't negotiate your way out of something, you're going to panic and it's going to trigger your "Fight or Flight" reflex.

It's true people who have low IQ alone aren't generally violent. Obviously your other option is flight (escape). However testosterone level and resting heart rate are the other factors in conjunction with low IQ that typically trigger the Fight reflex. IIRC I believe there's a professor from the University of Florida's Biostatistics dept that has a book on this.

Consider the Flynn effect (just google it), whereby your ancestors are basically drooling tards. Appealing as it might be to explain your posts via your own theory of inherited intellect, some basic reasoning tells us that IQ doesn't measure what you think it does.

Okay.

If that's how you want to 'debate' something.

'Don't Make the Black Kids Angry': The hoax of black victimization and those who enable it.

Your line of reasoning above is faulty. EEguy is linking something that supports his argument. You took that to mean this is some sort of link battle. So either you didn't understand his argument which the links support, or maybe don't know how arguments work. Hopefully it's former so this situation can be rectified.

 

[agent00f]

Wow, ok let me explain something to you.

The Wasthington Post is not the source. The FBI statistics is the source. What you are citing as a "source" is someone's interpretation of factual data. In other words, it is someone else's take on that data.

That article completely fails to address external reasons why someone would be pulled over.

To give you a personal example - my step-son was busted for small qty marijuana possession. The reason was that he drove through a railroad crossing while the crossings were down, and of course a cop was on the other side of the RR tracks. Cop smells pot. Probable cause. etc etc.

So how many of those marijuana busts were initiated by something unrelated? Oh, don't know because the author never "thought" of that?

You get what I'm saying?

It really doesn't matter if the stops against black are in some way justifiable or not. Drug abuse for example isn't really that much lower for whites, but the amount of prosecution is obviously lopsided, and that persecution has consequences. The reality is if white america were harassed with anywhere near the same frequency something would be done about it.

The key number you're missing out on is the ratio of people who aren't criminals yet get subject to abuse. For example you brought up the subject of class above, but the reality is a middle/upper black person gets treated the same if they just happened to be physically located on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[raildogg]

I'm surprised you just let eskimospy make a leap of logic conflating policing "high crime areas" with being "super racist" with no logical steps in the middle and say "that's interesting". That's logical deduction failure 101 in any philosophy or reasoning course. That's no different than the kind of reasoning hysterical people in the 1980s who observed some natural phenomenon they don't understand and then say "therefore it must be aliens."

I was just curious about the post since he was sharing his personal experience there. It does make sense to put officers in areas that supposedly have higher rate of whatever illegal activity that is happening. Some call this racism while others don't.

Speaking of racism, I think the protests that are happening and have happened are the definition of racism. The people are protesting blacks getting killed by police. They are motivated by only the race and are therefore divisive and racist.

The same protests would be racist if whites were doing it so it's not a black or white issue. The issue here is that in this world, people value their tribe (or race) much more than others. They like to "stick together." If that isn't racism, then what is?

 

[fskimospy]

I was just curious about the post since he was sharing his personal experience there. It does make sense to put officers in areas that supposedly have higher rate of whatever illegal activity that is happening. Some call this racism while others don't.

Speaking of racism, I think the protests that are happening and have happened are the definition of racism. The people are protesting blacks getting killed by police. They are motivated by only the race and are therefore divisive and racist.

The same protests would be racist if whites were doing it so it's not a black or white issue. The issue here is that in this world, people value their tribe (or race) much more than others. They like to "stick together." If that isn't racism, then what is?

How are these protests racist in even the slightest way? They perceive anti-black racism in policing and are protesting against it. Calling out racism is not racism, it is the opposite of racism. They aren't saying black lives matter MORE, they are saying they should not matter LESS. It's a great message of equality.

 

[raildogg]

How are these protests racist in even the slightest way? They perceive anti-black racism in policing and are protesting against it. Calling out racism is not racism, it is the opposite of racism. They aren't saying black lives matter MORE, they are saying they should not matter LESS. It's a great message of equality.

This is true up to a certain point. The protests are happening due to black shootings by white officers. That means the people are motivated in some way or another to support their fellow race. These protests are happening only due to the race of the victims and the supposed perpetrators (officers). They are not happening because humans are killing other humans (which if the real tragedy). No, they are happening because of racial reasons.

So your fighting racism with your own form of racism and hoping to end racism. It will not work that way.

 

[fskimospy]

This is true up to a certain point. The protests are happening due to black shootings by white officers. That means the people are motivated in some way or another to support their fellow race. These protests are happening only due to the race of the victims and the supposed perpetrators (officers). They are not happening because humans are killing other humans (which if the real tragedy). No, they are happening because of racial reasons.

So your fighting racism with your own form of racism and hoping to end racism. It will not work that way.

Again you're going to have to explain how this is racism because it appears to be the literal polar opposite of racism. If black people are victims of police violence at disproportionate rates it is not only nor racist to point that out, it would be racist to ignore it.

Serious question. Say for an entire year the police only killed black people. Not one person of any other race. By your logic people should combat that by saying 'we should lower police shootings' instead of protesting the exclusively racial nature of the killings because to do so would be racist. I know that's taken to an extreme, but I think that's the implication of your argument.

 

[senseamp]

This is true up to a certain point. The protests are happening due to black shootings by white officers. That means the people are motivated in some way or another to support their fellow race. These protests are happening only due to the race of the victims and the supposed perpetrators (officers). They are not happening because humans are killing other humans (which if the real tragedy). No, they are happening because of racial reasons.

So your fighting racism with your own form of racism and hoping to end racism. It will not work that way.

That's absurd.

 

[raildogg]

Again you're going to have to explain how this is racism because it appears to be the literal polar opposite of racism. If black people are victims of police violence at disproportionate rates it is not only nor racist to point that out, it would be racist to ignore it.

Serious question. Say for an entire year the police only killed black people. Not one person of any other race. By your logic people should combat that by saying 'we should lower police shootings' instead of protesting the exclusively racial nature of the killings because to do so would be racist. I know that's taken to an extreme, but I think that's the implication of your argument.

It's not really important in the bigger picture to say what's racist and what's not racist. The main problem here is that people are very small minded and tribal in everything we do. We only care about something that relates to us in some way or another. Instead of us looking at humanity as a whole and trying to be a part of it, we rather look at things through our narrow lenses.

It's interesting to see that there aren't many non-blacks at these protests. Is it because only black people care about black lives or is it because non-blacks don't care about black lives? Where is the inclusiveness here?

 

[disappoint]

Not at all, it was just buried under the surface. Thank cameras and social media for bringing true issues to light. The fantasy of equality that people told themselves we had achieved during the 90's and 00's has been exposed as false and people are scrambling to reconcile their perceptions with reality.

Funny how you've chosen to blame the president, I thought he was proof that racism was over? Wasn't that the talking point a few years ago???

Define "over".

Are most people racist? Nope.

Are the few racists making a lot of noise and drawing a lot of attention from and exploited by the media? Yup.

 

[disappoint]

I don't know what you know. Puss is the manifestation of a lanced boil and the turn around point of healing. It's always darkest before the dawn. Fish flop as they die. Are things getting worse or are more of us just becoming aware of how bad things have been?