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why don't we make people work for unemployment checks

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I've got an idea for you Iceberg.

Your definition of earned seems to not be even a little bit in line with what the term earned actually means. So next time you get your paycheck take 25% of the hours you worked for that period of time and volunteer around the office/wherever it is you work. Not doing your job, just other stuff around like cleaning offices/bathrooms. Think of it as the deductible on the 40 hours you spent doing your job already.

If you use any system that is paid for by tax dollars you need to track it and be sure to volunteer in proportion to it. Now you already volunteer but unfortunately lots of people use these already paid for systems so the places you want to volunteer don't need/can't manage anymore help so you get to do something you don't want to do, like cleaning rest stop bathrooms. You did pay taxes for these benefits but the volunteer work is a deductible. If you don't do it you can't use taxed services and man will it suck if you need 911. I mean the amount of tax dollars used to pay for squad cars, police salaries, fire trucks, its gonna be a whole lot of volunteer time to cover what was already covered by your taxes. If its a house fire you get double dinged since insurance isn't really earned by paying into it either so you gotta volunteer for your insurance pay outs in addition to the fire fighter payout.

Basically your argument was that since the government pays the unemployed there should be a benefit, when it was shown that UI is actually earned you still insisted that earned or not people should be forced to do even more.

I'd have no problem with the UI office suggesting places folks could volunteer and hooking them up. I'd even maybe support a system that gave you a slightly better UI payout if you volunteered 20 hours a week. But baseline UI benefits have been earned already when you make that claim.
 
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

Or privatize it, the insurance business when done correctly is a very profitable. With this method, it's off the governments hands and at the same time do away with unemployment tax, this will allow for a higher starting salary across the board. Then during the hiring process, an individual can either opt in or out of unemployment insurance(like any other insurance) and should they be laid off, they get nothing. Or if they opt in, then just like it is now, they get 6 months worth of paychecks.

Can you prove there is a critical issue that would necessitate such drastic action? (Other than the delusions in the OP's head of course.) A lot of these arguments sound derivative from the Protestant ethic of "work is always virtuous". I am really confused about the motivation of some people on here.

Yes. Government should not promote and pay for laziness. People should provide for their own unemployment with a 6 month emergency fund.

So the government is "promoting laziness" by:

- forcing people to pay into the unemployment insurance fund
- forcing people to look for work while receiving the money they paid in
- imposing a time limit on how long they can receive their money
- making the amount of money they do receive a pittance that is virtually impossible for anyone to live on

Did I forget anything?

 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

Or privatize it, the insurance business when done correctly is a very profitable. With this method, it's off the governments hands and at the same time do away with unemployment tax, this will allow for a higher starting salary across the board. Then during the hiring process, an individual can either opt in or out of unemployment insurance(like any other insurance) and should they be laid off, they get nothing. Or if they opt in, then just like it is now, they get 6 months worth of paychecks.

Can you prove there is a critical issue that would necessitate such drastic action? (Other than the delusions in the OP's head of course.) A lot of these arguments sound derivative from the Protestant ethic of "work is always virtuous". I am really confused about the motivation of some people on here.

Yes. Government should not promote and pay for laziness. People should provide for their own unemployment with a 6 month emergency fund.

So the government is "promoting laziness" by:

- forcing people to pay into the unemployment insurance fund
- forcing people to look for work while receiving the money they paid in
- imposing a time limit on how long they can receive their money
- making the amount of money they do receive a pittance that is virtually impossible for anyone to live on

Did I forget anything?

The massive hurdles that are in place to collect unemployment.
 
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
why?

why don't we make people on public assistance do some kind of work for it?
why don't we make every American donate some time to volunteer work?
why don't we make prisoners earn their keep?


Because those things make sense, and those in charge aren't really in charge.

That one doesn't make sense if we want to continue calling this a free country 😉
You can google "prison industry" to see how prisoners earn their keep.
 
I started to read this thread earlier today and got massively pissed at the OP. I sat down and re-read it and am still pissed off.

IcebergSlim - you are so shortsighted, and frankly intellectually devoid of any meaningful insight, that this is sad.

Okay, granted, I do have a bias in this situation: I am unemployed.

I paid into the system, and due to no fault of my own I have been without a job since December 03, 2008. Hell I paid into the system, I had to pay taxes on my severance check, and I have to pay checks on the unemployment benefit. I am really getting doubly screwed in taxes.

There have been so many good reasons on why the OP's idea is pointless so I am not going to add to them. However I will glad answer any queries IcebergSlim - or other people who rail against unemployment benefits - may have.

Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

This is entirely beyond mind-boggling idiotic. Did you seriously post this while thinking to yourself, "Hey this is a deep insight"?

 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
If they were working they wouldn't be able to look for work.

15 - 20 hours per week seems reasonable. You can knock that out in 2-3 days then have the rest of the week for job search.

one of my tenants was laid off 2 months ago. He's been riding the unemployment gravy train for 2 months. been on 1 interview. If he was doing 15-20 hours of mandatory volunteer work he'd prob have more incentive not to be such a degenerate.

Gravy train? Is that what its called when get diarrhea from stress and ramen noodle consumption?
 
You know, someday IcebergSlim might come down from his ivory castle where people can piss money away into an unemployment fund and be unable to truly get back what they earned (and honestly, with the limit on how long UI lasts, you never get back what you put in) and see what it's like in the -real- -world-.

P.S. I go away for like an hour and now everyone has windlybobs? I already wasted that hour! How am I ever going to get enough time to do enough forced "volunteering" to get one?!
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Work to do what exactly?

community service. 15-20 hours a week. Something so they can still search for other jobs but aren't being total leeches on society.

Also, a lot of people that are unemployed have young children that are normally placed in daycare while they are at work. These daycares get very expensive. $500-$1000/mo is not unrealistic at all. However, while unemployed, they can pull their kids out of the daycares and watch them at home. That helps a lot to extend the time they got to find a job before going to into serious debt. If they had to do community service, then who would watch the kids? Some could find ways, but many could not.

i ended up on unemployment when my kids were infants (twins and a 2 yr old). the daycare was covered as well while i was looking for a job. the reqs for the benefits were pretty well laid out. i was management in my last position, so i didnt have to accept or interview for lower than that. i paid 7 bucks a week for daycare. that list gets very easy to deal with at that point, as gas money isnt really all that hard to come up with. i did have to log at least 10 apps a week while looking, 2 a day was easy. i was only out of a job for 2 weeks, had a job before my first check came in. i couldnt live on unemployment anyway, 250 a week when youre used to 900 is a bit hard to accustom to. now that im making well over that, i dont think i could really do it again. makes me really glad im working.
 
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Work to do what exactly?

community service. 15-20 hours a week. Something so they can still search for other jobs but aren't being total leeches on society.

That's great. People who worked hard and through no fault of their own lost their jobs and have to search for job after job are being called leeches....

yeah whats the problem?

Maybe you should figure out how unemployment works, otherwise you just come off sounding foolish.

We pay into Unemployment Insurance, and as much as I've paid into it if I ever did need it I'd be more than entitled to it.

Also very true. It is not like welfare. Think of it as a mandatory nest egg that we pay for while we work.

Exactly. It's like Social Security Benefits when you retire.

except you dont get it back when you voluntarily stop working for a living. its insurance, just in case.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: darkxshade
It's called unemployment insurance right? Except this business is run by the gov't, and your employer is paying the premiums in the form of taxes. I'm under the assumption that the gov't is profiting from this since if you think about it, if the umemployment rate is 5% that means employers are paying out premiums for the other 95% of the workforce. That's where the entitlement comes in as others has mentioned. Whether it comes out of your paycheck or the employer, a premium is paid to insure you from a job loss. You didn't ask to get let go, it unfortunately happened so you're entitled to that claim. That's why you don't get these checks if you quit.

edit: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's a deficit in the unemployment pool. So I don't see how any of this is coming from anyone's tax dollars per se.

even if you are right and there is not drain on tax dollars then why shouldn't there be an additional stipulation of community service.

Because of ALL THE REASONS LISTED IN THE OTHER 5 PAGES.

Man, your being intentionally dense.

I'm not certain it's intentional.

Oh it is, he's dug a hole that is to deep to climb out of...his plan now is to keep digging until he busts out the other side in China.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: Superself
Because unemployment checks are the result of work already performed.

You are trying to force people to work for something they have already earned. If you never worked, you will never get an unemployment check.

Yeah your missing the point here. Why shouldn't it be "earned" once you complete the community service? I understand how the law is written now but why shouldn't it be modified?

Because there's no good reason to do so. Consider the fact that it would cost the government even more money to put such a program into place and monitor it.

:thumbsup: To administer and manage such a program would cost millions. Who's going to pay for that?
 
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Yeah your missing the point here. Why shouldn't it be "earned" once you complete the community service? I understand how the law is written now but why shouldn't it be modified?

Because there's no good reason to do so. Consider the fact that it would cost the government even more money to put such a program into place and monitor it.

:thumbsup: To administer and manage such a program would cost millions. Who's going to pay for that?

Maybe part of Iceberg's plan is to tax these people even more after they get another job to make up for the difference. Smells like progress to me! Way to make the country a better place...
 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

Or privatize it, the insurance business when done correctly is a very profitable. With this method, it's off the governments hands and at the same time do away with unemployment tax, this will allow for a higher starting salary across the board. Then during the hiring process, an individual can either opt in or out of unemployment insurance(like any other insurance) and should they be laid off, they get nothing. Or if they opt in, then just like it is now, they get 6 months worth of paychecks.

Can you prove there is a critical issue that would necessitate such drastic action? (Other than the delusions in the OP's head of course.) A lot of these arguments sound derivative from the Protestant ethic of "work is always virtuous". I am really confused about the motivation of some people on here.

Yes. Government should not promote and pay for laziness. People should provide for their own unemployment with a 6 month emergency fund.

So the government is "promoting laziness" by:

- forcing people to pay into the unemployment insurance fund
- forcing people to look for work while receiving the money they paid in
- imposing a time limit on how long they can receive their money
- making the amount of money they do receive a pittance that is virtually impossible for anyone to live on

Did I forget anything?

-Standing in huge lines and dealing with surly government workers to collect it.
-it is taxable income so you need to put aside 25% of the pittance to pay at filing time.
 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

Or privatize it, the insurance business when done correctly is a very profitable. With this method, it's off the governments hands and at the same time do away with unemployment tax, this will allow for a higher starting salary across the board. Then during the hiring process, an individual can either opt in or out of unemployment insurance(like any other insurance) and should they be laid off, they get nothing. Or if they opt in, then just like it is now, they get 6 months worth of paychecks.

Can you prove there is a critical issue that would necessitate such drastic action? (Other than the delusions in the OP's head of course.) A lot of these arguments sound derivative from the Protestant ethic of "work is always virtuous". I am really confused about the motivation of some people on here.

Yes. Government should not promote and pay for laziness. People should provide for their own unemployment with a 6 month emergency fund.

So the government is "promoting laziness" by:

- forcing people to pay into the unemployment insurance fund
- forcing people to look for work while receiving the money they paid in
- imposing a time limit on how long they can receive their money
- making the amount of money they do receive a pittance that is virtually impossible for anyone to live on

Did I forget anything?

Yes, you forget to mention how NOBODY ever gets back even close to as much as they've put in. Iceberg is upset that if I lose my job I'm going to get back a fraction of the money I PUT IN. How dare I expect my money!

My question is, with the limitations on how much you get based off how much you paid in, and nobody getting more back than they've paid in. Where's the extra money these people putting in going? Forget the people who never need it. Why are they making me pay more in than I'll ever get back? Seems shady to me.
 
Can we get an early nomination for ownage of the year 2009?


Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: darkxshade

You still did not answer the 1st question... You should be a politician.

Deductible for insurance benefit received.

The deductible here is the difference between the small amount you receive from unemployment and the amount of money you need to survive.
 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
why?

Probably because you have to have substantial work history to receive one, as well as meet a bunch of requirements as to how you were terminated or laid off, etc, as well as the fact it isn't infinite, as well as the fact you pay into it.
 
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: Superself
Because unemployment checks are the result of work already performed.

You are trying to force people to work for something they have already earned. If you never worked, you will never get an unemployment check.

Yeah your missing the point here. Why shouldn't it be "earned" once you complete the community service? I understand how the law is written now but why shouldn't it be modified?

Because there's no good reason to do so. Consider the fact that it would cost the government even more money to put such a program into place and monitor it.

:thumbsup: To administer and manage such a program would cost millions. Who's going to pay for that?


Duh! The answer to too much government is more government!

Slim really doesn't understand how insurance works, and that it's part of an employees compensation. I assume he is a business owner, or he really has nothing to complain about.

 
Originally posted by: Babbles
I started to read this thread earlier today and got massively pissed at the OP. I sat down and re-read it and am still pissed off.

IcebergSlim - you are so shortsighted, and frankly intellectually devoid of any meaningful insight, that this is sad.

Okay, granted, I do have a bias in this situation: I am unemployed.

I paid into the system, and due to no fault of my own I have been without a job since December 03, 2008. Hell I paid into the system, I had to pay taxes on my severance check, and I have to pay checks on the unemployment benefit. I am really getting doubly screwed in taxes.

There have been so many good reasons on why the OP's idea is pointless so I am not going to add to them. However I will glad answer any queries IcebergSlim - or other people who rail against unemployment benefits - may have.

Originally posted by: JDub02
I have a better idea. Lets do away with unemployment benefits and government welfare completely. Unemployment is an excuse for people to be lazy.

This is entirely beyond mind-boggling idiotic. Did you seriously post this while thinking to yourself, "Hey this is a deep insight"?

:thumbsup:
 
I think the ignorance with the OP is because of his understanding of Unemployment Insurance and I'll try to do my best to shed some lights into this.

IBS, the UI money, while NOT being shown as deductions on your pay stub, is a real cost to your employer. You see, when a company hires someone, they factor in all costs as a package, such as health insurance (because the tremendous price, you have to substitute some of it as shown on your deduction), taxes (your employer DOES pay a large portion of your tax). If you have ever worked and paid as a contractor (1099), you'll see the difference in taxes that you have to pay. The difference goes into UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

Now, let's examine the term INSURANCE. I'll give you the benefit of a doubt of possessing the intelligence to understand what INSURANCE means and what it does.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Lets use a different example completely. Lets say this was about the speed limit. I'm suggesting why can't the speed limit be 60 in stead of 55. Your reasoning is.....BECAUSE THE LIMIT IS 55!!!

YES I KNOW ITS 55 but we can change that.

YES I KNOW TODAY the concept of earned means you have to do nothing in addition to collecting your check. BUT WE CAN CHANGE THAT.

you guys got it all wrong...
if the speed limit is 55mph...we should only make cars that go 55 mph...why the hell do we need cars that go up to 110 mph? why? why? why?

=P
 
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
I mean all these lazy people working a measly 40 hours a week when people like me work 60+ hours.

lmao. are you jelous or you prefer dictatorship? working 40 hrs, taking care of your family and generally living a middle class or better lifestyle isnt quite being lazy. Some of use make plenty off of 40 hours to have a nice house,car and all that...i know i do and its cause i worked hard to get where i'm at lol. i worked plenty of 70+ hr weeks in my time and had 20 hr weeks, theres no lazyness involved and not a choice by all.

its all about what it takes to make ends meet, which varies for everyone. Anyone with Any Legit job earns respect. Anyone who is wealthy by legit means deserves the same respect. they contribute to society and make the world go round.
 
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