why don't we have cameras replacing side view mirrors yet?

[KIAman]

What would be neat is having camera views displayed in an HUD-like system like in the BMW 5 and 7 series.

Activate the view whenever the turn signal gets switched on (for whichever side the signal is pointing) and display via HUD right in front of you so you never have to look away. Hell, display your rear view when reverse is selected.

 

[RedRooster]

Or put VR helmets in the car, cameras all over the outside, and the view in the helmet would be of a roofless & blindspotless car.

 

[KIAman]

Or put VR helmets in the car, cameras all over the outside, and the view in the helmet would be of a roofless & blindspotless car.

People already hate having anything on their heads even in a 3D movie theater. I doubt it would fly when inside of a vehicle.

In other words.... *GONG*

 

[Meghan54]

do you see the fallacy in your example yet?


[/b]

name some. i'm all ears.

OK...do these LCD screens work with the ignition off? Sitting in a parallel parked vehicle.....I tend to look in the side view mirror before opening the driver's door, so do these LCD's work after the ignition is turned off?


Do these cameras have the ability to move outward to change their field of view? I'm thinking of a vehicle towing something that's a tad larger/wider than the tow vehicle. Regular mirrors can move outward or have tow mirrors added to them or spots added to them for just a situation. LCD cameras?

Car behind you with his brights on. You can dim your rearview...can you adjust/angle your side view cameras outward to reduce the glare from the vehicle behind? I can with my normal side view mirrors.

How large are these LCD screens? Think they'd have to be about as large as regular mirrors to keep the same viewability. Little LCD screens are a pain to see, esp. in certain lighting conditions.


And the CAFE standards of 35mpg.....that's a fleetwide standard, meaning some vehicles will have better than 35, some worse, but the average of the fleet's sales has to average 35mpg.

 

[jlee]

Meh, it'll just dumb down the average driver even more. They're already not smart enough to follow road signs....

(spent 9 hours directing traffic today..annoyed).

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

OK...do these LCD screens work with the ignition off? Sitting in a parallel parked vehicle.....I tend to look in the side view mirror before opening the driver's door, so do these LCD's work after the ignition is turned off?


Do these cameras have the ability to move outward to change their field of view? I'm thinking of a vehicle towing something that's a tad larger/wider than the tow vehicle. Regular mirrors can move outward or have tow mirrors added to them or spots added to them for just a situation. LCD cameras?

Car behind you with his brights on. You can dim your rearview...can you adjust/angle your side view cameras outward to reduce the glare from the vehicle behind? I can with my normal side view mirrors.

How large are these LCD screens? Think they'd have to be about as large as regular mirrors to keep the same viewability. Little LCD screens are a pain to see, esp. in certain lighting conditions.


And the CAFE standards of 35mpg.....that's a fleetwide standard, meaning some vehicles will have better than 35, some worse, but the average of the fleet's sales has to average 35mpg.

good points.

lots of new cars today retain power after turning off the car so this is possible.

this is not a solution for every car. it should be aimed at cars that want to maximize FE.

it's electronic, you should be able to aim the angle, zoom in/out, dim, brighten, whatever the manufacturer wants to do.

as big as the manufacturer can feasibly make them without disrupting the usability of the rest of the car. could be actually slightly smaller since the LCD will be closer to you.

great, then this is a good step to help increase the average.

 

[Pulsar]

There are a number of reasons not to jump on board with sideview cameras.

First - liability.
Second - cost.
Third - technical issues.

The first two have already been discussed somewhat. Let me mention a few of the technical issues.

1. Shine a flashlight at your cellphone camera. Or at a video camera.
2. Depth perception and relative motion have already been discussed.
3. LCD screens in bright sunlight are nearly unreadable.
4. Finally, and most importantly, have you ever dealt with a camera of that type? I have. I just installed a couple cameras on 3 vehicles. The lenses of these cameras are small (obviously). ONE drop of water on the lense obscures 90 percent of your viewing angle. One bit of mud, dirt, etc obscures it completely.

When a side-view mirror gets dirty, generally speaking you can still see out of it. Those small-lensed cameras still are a bitch to see out of right after you've washed the vehicles unless you get out and clean the lens. On top of that, using them when driving down the freeway and they're constantly getting wet is near impossible.

So. To review.
1. Cost.
2. Liability.
3. Feasibility.

Perhaps in 10 years on higher end cars.

 

[Zenmervolt]

negative ghost rider. wind tunnel studies have shown that side view mirrors are a sizable source of drag.

Any actual sources for this? Links perhaps?

also, cameras and LCD's are dirt cheap these days.

Cheaper than a piece of glass?

position them on the insides of the car, directly opposite the camera.

Where inside the car, that's my question. No room in the ends of the dash (filled up with HVAC ducts and airbag paraphernalia), so you're left with maybe on the A-pillars, but then you're compromising vision past the A-pillar due to having a 3x5 inch block hanging off of it. And you have to deal with making the display bright enough to be seen easily with a single glance even when it has the sun directly on it (something I've never seen any LCD do successfully). And you have to use screens with high viewing angles to accommodate the fact that the driver is going to be adjusting the seat.

It's not even close to the "simple" feat you seem to imagine it would be.

ZV

 

[exdeath]

A $5 mirror has 100x superior resolution, response time, frame rate, color, depth of field, contrast, viewing angle, and fade/glare resistance.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Side view mirrors add very little to frontal area and hardly make a blip on the wind resistance/gas mileage figures...

As for why they haven't been replaced with cameras and LCDs, both space and cost are two important players here. Firstly where would the LCD screens be put in the car? In most cars there's simply not space on the dash for two LCD monitors (and no, they couldn't be multipurpose monitors for obvious safety reasons), not to mention the additional costs compared to relatively inexpensive mirrors.

Basically, there's almost no benefit and a lot of cost associated with the idea, which is why it hasn't been done except on concepts or one-off custom machines.

ZV

this.

and for the life of me, i don't understand why manufacturers don't use euro-style mirrors that virtually eliminate blind spots. no need for ridiculous and costly blindspot warning systems. just a little extra glass.

for those who have no idea what i'm talking about:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B5-FWD-1.8T/Exterior/Mirrors/ES5554/

 

[KIAman]

And you have to deal with making the display bright enough to be seen easily with a single glance even when it has the sun directly on it (something I've never seen any LCD do successfully). And you have to use screens with high viewing angles to accommodate the fact that the driver is going to be adjusting the seat.

ZV

What do you think of HUD systems?

 

[LTC8K6]

Those CAFE numbers are a little more complicated than just an average...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q2/how_automakers_will_meet_2016_cafe_standards-feature

 

[skyking]

losing the ability to adjust your view with a move of your head would be a dealbreaker for me. I back using my mirrors all the time. If a cam view had a wide enough angle to be useful, it would be too much of a fisheye and lack the details I am used to. I prefer and use a spot wide angle mirror combined with an optically flat mirror, that lets me see and do what I want with a minimum of optical error.

 

[ElFenix]

I hear European cars have a partially-curved/convex sidemirror to eliminate blindspots. I wouldn't mind that over a camera.

all cars sold in the US have a convex passenger side mirror. that's why it says 'objects closer than they appear'

and if you adjust your mirrors properly you can mostly eliminate blind spots. there's a place a motorcycle might be able to hide with my car, but it's well behind me (not right next to me which is how most people set their mirrors)

 

[DivideBYZero]

These cameras would be shit at night.

Glass FTW.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

all cars sold in the US have a convex passenger side mirror. that's why it says 'objects closer than they appear'

the question is, why isn't it convex on the driver side as well?

 

[SparkyJJO]

the question is, why isn't it convex on the driver side as well?

Because it sucks. Throws off depth perception terribly. Heck I have poor depth perception to begin with, throw in convex mirrors and... ugh.

If they were flat, with just the outside edge being convex, that would be ok. I wish the passenger mirror was like that actually.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Because it sucks. Throws off depth perception terribly. Heck I have poor depth perception to begin with, throw in convex mirrors and... ugh.

If they were flat, with just the outside edge being convex, that would be ok. I wish the passenger mirror was like that actually.

so why is it on the passenger side?

 

[Zenmervolt]

What do you think of HUD systems?

Good for limited data, but once you start putting up too much they become more of a distraction than a help for some drivers.

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Because it sucks. Throws off depth perception terribly. Heck I have poor depth perception to begin with, throw in convex mirrors and... ugh.

If they were flat, with just the outside edge being convex, that would be ok. I wish the passenger mirror was like that actually.

That's how both my cars are set up. Both sides have a convex outer area to the mirror to help with the blind spot.

 

[speedy2]

Plus to actually focus on a hud takes your focus off what's right in front of you. I would love to see people look at a hud at a rear view camera and try to drive. They would be so disoriented. lol

 

[SparkyJJO]

so why is it on the passenger side?

Because the passenger side has the largest blind spot. The convex mirror is to help reduce that. Driver side has a smaller blind spot, and that mirror is typically used more, that's why it is flat.

But I do think the best would be to have the outer portion of the mirror be a tad convex. But not a huge part, just like 1.5 - 2 inches at most.

 

[Pulsar]

Because the passenger side has the largest blind spot. The convex mirror is to help reduce that. Driver side has a smaller blind spot, and that mirror is typically used more, that's why it is flat.

But I do think the best would be to have the outer portion of the mirror be a tad convex. But not a huge part, just like 1.5 - 2 inches at most.

Actually, a lot of new cars have a bent outer piece of glass at the outside edge of the mirror - 80% of the mirror is flat and normal, and the outer 20% or so is bent to eliminate blindspots (cars are distorted as heck in this part of the mirror, but the whole point is you can see them).

 

[sandorski]

Just get one of these

 

[Zargon]

[/b]

name some. i'm all ears.

people driving.....