Why Don't Some People Get It?

[eits]

i was at a bar yesterday and a couple of guys were talking amongst themselves next to me and i couldn't help but overhear their conversation.

they were talking about the price of gas and how what "they need to do is drill in alaska and california and antarctica or something... fuck those tree huggers and start drilling."

i thought, why? what good is that going to do? it'll slow down the drive for alternative fueling and the huge push we're seeing for clean energy and less dependence on the middle east. the less dependent we are on the middle east, the less terrorism we'll have to worry about and the less likely we are to involve ourselves in another war out there.

running out of oil is easily one of the best things going for the world.

 

[Mo0o]

Unless we dont come up with good alternative fuel systems by the time it runs out

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Unless we dont come up with good alternative fuel systems by the time it runs out

the technology is all already there... i believe that this administration has been dragging it's feet on alternative fueling ever since 2001 when high horsepower hydrogen-powered cars by bmw were showcased in the u.s. because it was put in power by the big oil companies.

 

[Zim Hosein]

Originally posted by: eits
i was at a bar yesterday and a couple of guys were talking amongst themselves next to me and i couldn't help but overhear their conversation.

they were talking about the price of gas and how what "they need to do is drill in alaska and california and antarctica or something... fuck those tree huggers and start drilling."

i thought, why? what good is that going to do? it'll slow down the drive for alternative fueling and the huge push we're seeing for clean energy and less dependence on the middle east. the less dependent we are on the middle east, the less terrorism we'll have to worry about and the less likely we are to involve ourselves in another war out there.

running out of oil is easily one of the best things going for the world.

According to an article in the latest issue of R&T, we only purchase around 16% of our gasoline from Persian Gulf sources eits! :Q &

 

[destrekor]

sure, it'll be great in the end, but the research has already been started and cars are already being developed with the new alternatives. Drilling for more oil won't slow this research down. But what it will do is help the economy. Alternative fuels are still quite a few years from being practical and affordable to the entire country, and these new cars need to be around for a few years for the efforts to even matter: not everyone can buy new cars.
So, why not help the economy and drill for more oil? Less money going to the rising costs of gas, means more money for the rest of the corporate world, and not the oil companies. In reality, its much better to continue to find oil now, because no one is going to forget how insane the oil market is right now.

I completely agree, ditching oil will be great. But mind you, oil is used for more things than gas, and spending $6 a gallon for gas isn't something I have in mind as fun. Affording gas now as a college student with low income is a bitch.

We need to drill for more oil, because the economy is crying for it.
And by drilling for more oil in US territory, that means less dependence on the M.E., btw. And, oil isn't the reason for war. Jesus, people need to get that through their heads. The amount of oil that the equipment burns through over there is far more than we would get from Iraq anyhow... their production isn't anywhere near the levels OPEC puts out, or even Russia for that matter.

+

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

Originally posted by: eits
i was at a bar yesterday and a couple of guys were talking amongst themselves next to me and i couldn't help but overhear their conversation.

they were talking about the price of gas and how what "they need to do is drill in alaska and california and antarctica or something... fuck those tree huggers and start drilling."

i thought, why? what good is that going to do? it'll slow down the drive for alternative fueling and the huge push we're seeing for clean energy and less dependence on the middle east. the less dependent we are on the middle east, the less terrorism we'll have to worry about and the less likely we are to involve ourselves in another war out there.

running out of oil is easily one of the best things going for the world.

According to an article in the latest issue of R&T, we only purchase around 16% of our gasoline from Persian Gulf sources eits! :Q &

... That means imported fossil fuel was 53% of the total amount of domestic fossil fuel production. When calculated as percent of all fossil fuel supplies minus exports, the percent of imported fossil fuel is 35%. Historically, our actual dependence on foreign fossil fuels was only 20% twenty years ago, and forty years ago, it was a measly 8%...

source

 

[Brainonska511]

For all those claiming we should drill for more oil - couple of things, if refineries are currently working at full capacity, we would need more built to increase the supply of gasoline. And beyond that, we would probably have to wait 10 years before a sizable amount of oil is flowing from those wells, so there would be no immediate relief at all.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Running out of oil is one of the best things in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...s_based_on_refined_oil

Oil isn't just used to make gas, theres a crap load of products created from oil

 

[Oil]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

Originally posted by: eits
i was at a bar yesterday and a couple of guys were talking amongst themselves next to me and i couldn't help but overhear their conversation.

they were talking about the price of gas and how what "they need to do is drill in alaska and california and antarctica or something... fuck those tree huggers and start drilling."

i thought, why? what good is that going to do? it'll slow down the drive for alternative fueling and the huge push we're seeing for clean energy and less dependence on the middle east. the less dependent we are on the middle east, the less terrorism we'll have to worry about and the less likely we are to involve ourselves in another war out there.

running out of oil is easily one of the best things going for the world.

According to an article in the latest issue of R&T, we only purchase around 16% of our gasoline from Persian Gulf sources eits! :Q &

... That means imported fossil fuel was 53% of the total amount of domestic fossil fuel production. When calculated as percent of all fossil fuel supplies minus exports, the percent of imported fossil fuel is 35%. Historically, our actual dependence on foreign fossil fuels was only 20% twenty years ago, and forty years ago, it was a measly 8%...

source

From your article:
"Canada and Mexico provide America with 33% of all of our annual imported crude oil. Other Central and South American nations provide us with an additional 18%. America imports 22% of its crude oil from the Middle East and 21% from various African nations. We get just 14% of our crude oil from Saudi Arabia. Interestingly, 98% of Saudi Arabia oil exports are sent to America, according to a recent Middle East Media and Research Institute report."

Zim was close

 

[Bateluer]

When I state that the current push for alternatives is a good thing, and that cheap gas would kill public interest in the technology, I get chewed out and laughed at.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

Originally posted by: eits
i was at a bar yesterday and a couple of guys were talking amongst themselves next to me and i couldn't help but overhear their conversation.

they were talking about the price of gas and how what "they need to do is drill in alaska and california and antarctica or something... fuck those tree huggers and start drilling."

i thought, why? what good is that going to do? it'll slow down the drive for alternative fueling and the huge push we're seeing for clean energy and less dependence on the middle east. the less dependent we are on the middle east, the less terrorism we'll have to worry about and the less likely we are to involve ourselves in another war out there.

running out of oil is easily one of the best things going for the world.

According to an article in the latest issue of R&T, we only purchase around 16% of our gasoline from Persian Gulf sources eits! :Q &

True, the US purchases little Oil from the Mid-East, however due to Supply/Demand US purchases of Foreign Oil simply forces Asia/Europe to buy from the Mid-East. Add in Market Prices being largely set by OPEC and no matter what amount of Oil the US gets from the Mid-East the US remains largely at the Mid-Easts' mercy.

This post has nothing to do with blame, but everything to do with Market realities.

 

[Random Variable]

Spending more money on developing alternatives is a good thing, but it's BS that we're running out of oil.

 

[rocadelpunk]

What exactly would you have against drilling our own oil (putting jobs here) and not having to rely on foreign sources? Sounds like a great idea to me, especially since as far as I know there is just a shitttttton of oil in the U.S. (I'd have to ask my friend where/how much for specifics). Also, I don't know if the country could stand another *oil line debacle*. I wasn't alive during that time, but from what I've heard...morale was quite low, people felt like a second rate country and things were just...bad. If we got to that point, I'm sure nobody would care what environmentalists thought.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Running out of oil is one of the best things in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...s_based_on_refined_oil

Oil isn't just used to make gas, theres a crap load of products created from oil

exactly, take a look around your house...or hell even you workstation/home office....see all that plastic (computer case, keyboard, mouse, monitor enclosure, the cd's/dvd's that your software comes on, your cable/DSL modem, your printer, any external drive enclosures) anything made out of plastic pretty much requires oil as a key component....so when you say that it would be good for the world to run out of oil...think about everything you own that is made of plastic.....running out of oil may not be such a good idea.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Running out of oil is one of the best things in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...s_based_on_refined_oil

Oil isn't just used to make gas, theres a crap load of products created from oil

exactly, take a look around your house...or hell even you workstation/home office....see all that plastic (computer case, keyboard, mouse, monitor enclosure, the cd's/dvd's that your software comes on, your cable/DSL modem, your printer, any external drive enclosures) anything made out of plastic pretty much requires oil as a key component....so when you say that it would be good for the world to run out of oil...think about everything you own that is made of plastic.....running out of oil may not be such a good idea.

you know what i meant.

 

[Queasy]

Because high gas prices trickle down to everything else? Saying, "We need to keep gas prices high to drive the desire for alternative fuels" is fine and dandy until you get the sticker shock from everything else rising in price as a result.

There's no reason why we can't explore for more oil on our own land while also developing alternative fuel supplies. Of course, we've already got the technology for one of the cleanest industrial scale producers of energy but the environmentalists are against it too - nuclear power.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Unless we dont come up with good alternative fuel systems by the time it runs out

the technology is all already there... i believe that this administration has been dragging it's feet on alternative fueling ever since 2001 when high horsepower hydrogen-powered cars by bmw were showcased in the u.s. because it was put in power by the big oil companies.

Tell us, oh mighty one, what is the alternative? solar? Wind? Ocean? Ethanol? Hydro? Hydrogen?

Let us dive into some alternatives.

Solar, expensive, dirty, and requires rare minerals, in some instances it doesn't produce more energy then the cost to manufacture. A long standing public myth deems this fuel source as "Clean" because it has low operating costs. This myth fails to take into account disposal and manufacturing which more then destroys this as being a "Clean" source. Lets not forget that it only operates during the day, in which case expensive batteries and converters (DC to AC) would be needed to supply the world with power at night.

Wind, Great on windy days, ultimately unreliable (though, more reliable then solar) and pretty expensive. I don't have as many arguments against this one as solar and could see it as a viable supplement, but not a main source.

Ocean, IE tidal forces, Reliable, but expensive to produce large amounts of energy. Manufacturing and maintenance costs would be high. My view on this is much the same as Wind.

Ethanol, Has potential but certainly not in its current state. Corn is one of the worst crops available for making Ethanol and yet the crop that the government likes to through money at. More research would be needed before I would through support to this one. (Carbon emissions aren't all that great either)

Hydro, I like this one, very reliable, fairly low maintenance costs, but impractical for a supply to the entire nation as It requires some heft rivers to power it. Oh, and it kills salmon.

Hydrogen, People seem to always forget this one, where do you get the hydrogen from? Water? Read Hess's law (Hess says no). How do you store the Hydrogen, cant be a gas as it will leak out of any container. most likely would have to be bonded to something, then you would have to react it to remove it. That all costs chemicals and may not be easy to do.

In my opinion the best course the country could take is in establishing a nuclear backbone with perhaps a Hydro-Electric dam as its backbone. More research into fission and consequentially fusion would give us the best power for future generations.

But that is one of the least popular solutions because of the huge disservice done to the general populous by misinformed protesters trying to stop green glowing fish.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Random Variable
Spending more money on developing alternatives is a good thing, but it's BS that we're running out of oil.

I think we are running out of oil to some extent. There are probably dozens of drill sites we still haven't found and stuck our drills into yet. However, from existing oil reserves, I think at the end of the century, we will really start seeing cutbacks in oil usage hell, maybe even 50 years from now.

However, nothing much comes close to the energy density of oil. Nuclear Power is there, but arguably, its even worse than oil. Estimates put plutonium reserves to hold out for 70 years if all the power was given by nuclear energy, under our current energy demand.

Wind? Bleh. Solar? Lets evict everyone in Texas and cover it with solar panels, Tidal Power? Do people really think this will make a dent in our energy consumption?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Cogman
In my opinion the best course the country could take is in establishing a nuclear backbone with perhaps a Hydro-Electric dam as its backbone. More research into fission and consequentially fusion would give us the best power for future generations.

But that is one of the least popular solutions because of the huge disservice done to the general populous by misinformed protesters trying to stop green glowing fish.

absolutely no argument from me there. i'm 110% for more nuclear power plants...

 

[TehMac]

.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Running out of oil is one of the best things in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...s_based_on_refined_oil

Oil isn't just used to make gas, theres a crap load of products created from oil

Which is EXACTLY why we want to get on alternative sources of energy. This has been well-known for a long time.

If we stop burning oil, then the cost to produce these other items goes down (less demand). Running out of CURRENT supplies of oil IS the best thing, because it would force us to only use oil for products that require it.

We don't require oil for fuel, it's just cheap and effective. We REQUIRE oil for many products. Thus, if we run out of current supplies, we'll be forced to stop using oil as fuel.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Because high gas prices trickle down to everything else? Saying, "We need to keep gas prices high to drive the desire for alternative fuels" is fine and dandy until you get the sticker shock from everything else rising in price as a result.

There's no reason why we can't explore for more oil on our own land while also developing alternative fuel supplies. Of course, we've already got the technology for one of the cleanest industrial scale producers of energy but the environmentalists are against it too - nuclear power.

Of course we can do both of those, but people are usually driven by economic incentives in this country. If everything goes up in price due to high oil costs, then that drives research. Overall, the net benefit to society is positive (despite a decade of higher prices for everything else). Think of it as a few years of a shitty economy for decades of a good economy.

Obviously I haven't run any numbers on this, but neither has anyone else here.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

Gas will be under 3 dollars a gallon and oil under 60 dollars a barrel by 2011
/thread

 

[BoomerD]

The problem I see with all the "Drill, Drill, Drill" folks, is that even if we open up the entire US to oil drilling, let them rape & pillage where ever they want to, including all the US coasts, there's nothing that guarantees the price will come down. They're already drilling a LOT of oil here in the US, then their drilling division sells it to their refinery division, and so on, each division taking its profits along the way, and they end up selling it to themselves at current market prices, even if it only costs them $10/barrel to drill and transport it to the refinery.
Alaskan oil was sold to Asian markets for quite a while, until the production slowed down enough that there was no longer a viable surplus, what's to stop them from selling the oil they drill here to foreign countries who would pay more?

Time to nationalize the oil industry here in the USA.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Gas will be under 3 dollars a gallon and oil under 60 dollars a barrel by 2011
/thread

...and if it isn't?