Question Why does the overall gaming GPU market treat AMD like they have AIDS?

[VirtualLarry]

I guess I get the (sub-liminal) "The way it's meant to be played" ads from NVidia, along with the recurring FUD tropes about "AMD drivers", but I honestly don't get the sales disparity, especially for the price.

I've owned both NVidia-powered as well as AMD powered GPUs, and IMHO, AMD is (generally) just as good. Maybe 99% as good.

Edit: And I think that there's something to be said about the viability of AMD technologies, when they're in both major console brands.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes GtG and?

Have you tested the MSI Optix G273QPF? All tests and specs I’ve seen listed it as 1ms GtG.

Of course I understand how companies list monitors like this, but supposedly their Rapid IPS Panel technology is suppose to deliver this.

If you don’t actually have the monitor and you haven’t tested it, then how are you so certain Rapid IPS can’t do this? 🤔

@Stuka87 I’m not calling out anyone, I was only merely making a reply in regards to this, and I understand how companies have always been marketing this, but as I mentioned Rapid IPS is suppose to be changing this.

I see there are various ways to test this, is there a good method everyone’s in agreement on for testing? 🤔

^Maddie posted it but yeah, you have to go to RTINGS because yes, they do test and this stuff and yes, there data is very real. They have a really large sample of the rapid IPS and other very fast VESA and OLED panels that have been coming out, to provide good rigor to their data set. The marketing is, well, terrible.

1ms GtG as advertised are all pretty much 5ms, at best, but these are also very good displays and also achieve the very highest ratings within their overall analysis.

So, don't misunderstand. This is still the best of the best right now, (but a new generation emerges next season, well with dimming and dark levels with more competitive "nano LED or IPS or whatever they are calling themselves," I think. GtG is not likely to get any better?)

So yeah, 1ms advertised among all of these top tier is actually 5ms, but so what? They are still the best possible in terms of getting GtG from current technology, and also just the best overall monitors, on average. (I'd argue that pure displays--for image quality, can be had outside of that "1ms" GtG, but not those meant to be monitors)

 

[Leeea]

They are still the best possible in terms of getting GtG from current technology

This is not actually true:

Samsung has an LCD VA that pulls an average of 2.18 ms:

Spoiler: youtube video response time graph 10min 12sec

However, the LG C1 oled puts out a 1.28 ms GTG:

Spoiler: youtube video response time graph 9min 16sec

 

[Leeea]

Response Time @ Max Refresh Rate

Wow, that is impressive.

Looks like 6.9 ms average GtG, which is very good!

but it is not 1 ms ...

 

[GodisanAtheist]

People care so little about AMD that they've decided it's not even worth the effort to keep arguing about why no one gives a **** about AMD and have decided to argue GTG times on monitors instead.

QED @VirtualLarry

 

[Leeea]

People care so little about AMD that they've decided it's not even worth the effort to keep arguing about why no one gives a **** about AMD and have decided to argue GTG times on monitors instead.

QED @VirtualLarry

We care about AMD!

If it was not for AMD, who would keep Nvidia's prices down?

...

also, every time some unfortunate victum buys an AMD card, that means their is one more Nvidia card available.

 

[Dribble]

People care so little about AMD that they've decided it's not even worth the effort to keep arguing about why no one gives a **** about AMD and have decided to argue GTG times on monitors instead.

QED @VirtualLarry

Oh they care, they just don't have a solution.

I suspect as long as Nvidia doesn't mess up, and Nvidia haven't messed up for a very long time, they don't have much chance. The 4xxx series is looking strong again - it ticks all the boxes that have made Nvidia money in the past - so I don't think AMD will have much success in the next gen.

If AMD want to succeed in the end they need to invest a lot more into software - you will note most of AMD's successes come in areas where someone else writes the software (cpu's, consoles, even super computers don't require AMD to do much), they don't do well where they have to write it (PC gpu's, gpu compute, etc). So that's what AMD should focus on to fix this - it was something JHH worked out a long time ago, and turned his hardware only company around into one that's at least 50:50 hardware and software. Until they do that they will never catch Nvidia.

However will AMD really want to invest that much in software when instead they can sell cpu's that require AMD to write very little software, and they are up against a company that unlike Nvidia has messed up and let them catch up?

 

[Stuka87]

Oh they care, they just don't have a solution.

I suspect as long as Nvidia doesn't mess up, and Nvidia haven't messed up for a very long time, they don't have much chance. The 4xxx series is looking strong again - it ticks all the boxes that have made Nvidia money in the past - so I don't think AMD will have much success in the next gen.

If AMD want to succeed in the end they need to invest a lot more into software - you will note most of AMD's successes come in areas where someone else writes the software (cpu's, consoles, even super computers don't require AMD to do much), they don't do well where they have to write it (PC gpu's, gpu compute, etc). So that's what AMD should focus on to fix this - it was something JHH worked out a long time ago, and turned his hardware only company around into one that's at least 50:50 hardware and software. Until they do that they will never catch Nvidia.

However will AMD really want to invest that much in software when instead they can sell cpu's that require AMD to write very little software, and they are up against a company that unlike Nvidia has messed up and let them catch up?

But they HAVE messed up. People just don't care that they mess up. And then they forget that they messed up at all.

 

[dlerious]

He posted a new video yesterday.

I prefer the half hour videos he's been uploading recently over the multi-hour ones. Not a big fan of live streams.

 

[dlerious]

That is exactly my point. We know a used rx5000 series is a card that was burned out in the mines and is just going to be problems.

The same is true with AMD vs Nvidia. As long as people perceive AMD cards as having problems, it does not matter what the price is. They are going to buy Nvidia. Even if it is 2x the price. There is no point for AMD to discount the price to gain market share.

Price matters a lot to me. Much more since I retired. I'm currently running 10 series cards because I refused to pay the premium for 20 series - made worse with mining tax. I'm waiting for RDNA3 announcements now. If there's a new card that beats the 6900XT for $700 or less, I'll grab it. Otherwise, I'll be getting 6900XTs.

 

[Ranulf]

People care so little about AMD that they've decided it's not even worth the effort to keep arguing about why no one gives a **** about AMD and have decided to argue GTG times on monitors instead.

QED @VirtualLarry

Or, its been argued to death and I'm tired of the debate? AMD is often its own worst enemy but it seems since Navi1 they don't care as much. Probably because there is more money in server chips, consoles etc..

 

[In2Photos]

Does the issue with the new 16 pin connector fall on Nvidia?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Does the issue with the new 16 pin connector fall on Nvidia?

Mostly.

IIRC the connector on the 3090 was a unique NVidia spec.

The 4090 connector is the new PCIe 5.0 GPU spec connector. Though NVidia likely had people driving the PCIe 5.0 Spec, and from what I have seen it was a NVidia branded adapter that burned up.

 

[DeathReborn]

Mostly.

IIRC the connector on the 3090 was a unique NVidia spec.

The 4090 connector is the new PCIe 5.0 GPU spec connector. Though NVidia likely had people driving the PCIe 5.0 Spec, and from what I have seen it was a NVidia branded adapter that burned up.

The 3090 12pin connector was a PCI-SIG plug, just not a commonly used one. I remember around launch a review/overview of the card and them pointing out the connector as a PCI-SIG connector, Microfit something. It might have been Buildzoid himself.

 

[dlerious]

HWBusters review of 12VHPWR

 

[Paul98]

AMD fell behind around Vega for a few years, then marketing and group think persist the perception. It takes a few generations with competitive products to turn that around.

 

[Heartbreaker]

HWBusters review of 12VHPWR

TLDW ?? I don't think I need 30 minute video review of a power connector. That could probably be distilled down to a sentence or two.

 

[Aapje]

The 3090 12pin connector was a PCI-SIG plug, just not a commonly used one. I remember around launch a review/overview of the card and them pointing out the connector as a PCI-SIG connector, Microfit something. It might have been Buildzoid himself.

Molex have a whole range of these connectors, with 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc pins. Basically they just add a block of 2 at the end for each tier up. So the 3090 Ti plug was just a bigger version of the standard 8-pin.

 

[Aapje]

Price matters a lot to me. Much more since I retired. I'm currently running 10 series cards because I refused to pay the premium for 20 series - made worse with mining tax. I'm waiting for RDNA3 announcements now. If there's a new card that beats the 6900XT for $700 or less, I'll grab it. Otherwise, I'll be getting 6900XTs.

Price is probably going to matter to many more people with the inflation and other issues going on. Nvidia may just have overplayed their hand, which was rather evident by the unlaunched fake 4080.

However, they may have painted themselves into a corner where they cannot ask somewhat normal prices for lower end cards without being stuck with a gazillion 3000 series cards.

 

[Thunder 57]

Linus has no shame in promoting DLSS 3. Based on the comments section though it looks like anyone who understands it a little realizes it has problems. I wouldn't be surprised if NVIDIA designed it partly to make FPS look great on charts because if it doesn't DLSS 3 it's sooo much slower.

 

[Aapje]

DLSS 3 is needed to 'sell' the next generation as RT cards, even in cases where you get stuck at 60 FPS or lower by turning RT on. With DLSS 3, they can then claim that you get close to 120 FPS.

 

[zinfamous]

This is not actually true:

Samsung has an LCD VA that pulls an average of 2.18 ms:

Spoiler: youtube video response time graph 10min 12sec

However, the LG C1 oled puts out a 1.28 ms GTG:

Spoiler: youtube video response time graph 9min 16sec

I hadn't really looked at all of the tests for all of the displays, hah, but I would say that is at least 1 that is really fast--the C1 is a TV, not a monitor.

But aren't there 2 new 43" OLED or "nanoLED" C1 competitors that are designed as monitors, recently released? I think LG and...Gigabyte, maybe?

 

[Leeea]

I hadn't really looked at all of the tests for all of the displays, hah, but I would say that is at least 1 that is really fast--the C1 is a TV, not a monitor.

But aren't there 2 new 43" OLED or "nanoLED" C1 competitors that are designed as monitors, recently released? I think LG and...Gigabyte, maybe?

as monitors?:

42" 4k oled monitor (same panel as lg c2, but with non-reflective matte finish + better uniformity + heatsink for reduced oled burn in):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1724186-REG/asus_republic_of_gamers_swift.html

34" 1440p oled monitor:
https://www.amazon.com/Alienware-AW3423DW-34-18-inch-3440x1440-Curvature/dp/B09VQ48X5Q

48" 4k oled monitor ( avoid ):
https://www.amazon.com/AORUS-Monitor-3840x2160-Display-Response/dp/B09886GDFD

... I may have been following this space closely for a while.



attractive alternatives:
lg oled c2 4k 42" at $400 cheaper then the Asus, reflective finish:
https://smile.amazon.com/LG-42-Inch-Refresh-AI-Powered-OLED42C2PUA/dp/B09RMFZZPX/ref=sr_1_2

4k 32" + over 1000 backlight zones LCD, the glorious Odyssey g8:
https://smile.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-Odyssey-FreeSync-Ultrawide-DisplayPort/dp/B09ZH3WM47/ref=sr_1_1

1440p 32" g8s brother, also with over a 1000 backlight zones, the 1440p 32" Odyssey g7:
https://smile.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-32-inch-Odyssey-G7-Monitor/dp/B088HHZBGJ/ref=sr_1_2


sadly, both of Samsung's Odyssey monitors have been cursed with a "curve". I despise curved monitors. Hatred. Complete hatred.


ps: nobody cares about AMD, this is a monitor thread now, it should be moved to the other forum

 

[mastertech01]

I just noticed they finally dropped the price on the new 42" Samsung C2 OLED under 1000.00.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Linus has no shame in promoting DLSS 3. Based on the comments section though it looks like anyone who understands it a little realizes it has problems. I wouldn't be surprised if NVIDIA designed it partly to make FPS look great on charts because if it doesn't DLSS 3 it's sooo much slower.

I refuse to watch Linus Videos, this one included. I'm tired of his schtick. Everything is exaggerated, negative or positive, for clicks. Along with his click bait thumbnail of him always pulling a dumb over-reaction face.

But all this nonsense is exactly what pulls in his large audience, and that is kind of sad commentary on the audience.

DLSS 3 is mostly marketing smoke and mirrors, letting them advertise a higher frame rate, that is essentially fake.

 

[Thunder 57]

...always pulling a dumb over-reaction face.

Well said

Also, who the hell pays the way overpriced stuff on his store? It was kind of nice to see Steve at GN give Linus crap for his merchandise.