Why does the left want everyone to be bottom-feeding lowlife trash?

[IHateMyJob2004]

Leftist. That's me.

OK. Social programs.

I take a look at the past 100 years. My mother and father had parents that sat in bread lines for food in the past. Today that is a near impossibility thanks to advances. People have it very good. I have it better than most. As such, it is my role in society to reward those that have made me better off than most. in my line of work, that is pretty much any tax payer. To the wealthy business owner (or owner of Kraft stock for example), they are well off due to those in society that reward the business owner with free cash flows. the problem really falls with the concept of humility or the lack thereof that many business owners fail to comprehend. I just see it as a circle of life sort of thing. But it is a circle of free cash flows in business terms. Those free cash flows should go back to those that need it.

I want to be a millionaire. Why? So I can give money to those that need it. I would love nothing more than to pay for a new library and dedicate it to Charles Munger. But I am not there yet. 40-50 years from now I think friends will be shocked as to what I do with my money in regards to society. It might not be a library but it will be something.

Aside that is OT: Hi Joe Rossi!

 

[JSt0rm]

nick, why did your girl break up with you?




Ask him via PM as this has nothing to do with the topic.

Anandtech Admin
Red Dawn

 

[theeedude]

I also got my education started under a Republican administration and used Pell grants to cover my tuition.

The difference I can see between then and now is that the government money that is going into student loans and grants are not being directed to where they are more beneficial.

By opening the door for everyone no matter what their qualifications are, the expectation is that funding will be available and not needed to be accountable. It is the abuse of programs that cause the backlash not the programs themselves. Make the programs more means and results tested with less funding. You will get quality people instead of McDonald working lawyers/PHD basket weavers.

Roughly, my income has doubled every 10 years due to hard work and starting my own vs hanging around picking the low handing fruit and asking for handouts.

I see what I started with and what I have succeeded; there is no question in my mind that others can do the same without the handouts that slow them down.

So what if you have to start out at a CC. Go there two years and earn a scholarship if you are that good. Or go to school at night and work during the day. One may lose the party experience - oh well. School can be completed in 4-5 years that way. Or reverse and work at night - get 4 years of schooling done and not have to touch a drop of beer.

Even without handouts, using what is available from the school system, one can make it. But too many do not want to put in the extra effort and abuse the system instead.

You had the option to scape around and still make it. HAving the goverment funding made it easier on you; now you feel that everyone does not need to work hard; yet you refuse to provide the funding needed for all those handouts.

Community colleges are tax supported, so they are handouts too. So saying you can go to a CC instead of getting a handout to study in college is a logical fallacy.
Being able to pay for a full unsubsidized private college tuition while working with just a high school diploma and still having time to finish in 5 years is highly unlikely. There are only so many hours in a day, and with just a high school diploma, you are going to have to work so many hours just to bring in enough money to support yourself and pay for school that you won't have time to seriously study anything worthwhile. There is hardly enough time to study in engineering school as it is. You'd need to bring home around 40K to pay full private tuition and support yourself. With only a high school diploma, even if you get $15/hr, that's 50 hours a week. You aren't going to have time to go to lectures and do homeworks with that sort of schedule. So most likely you are going to do it part time, which means your career is going to be set back several years if not permanently.
I don't refuse to provide the funding, I am more than happy to have my taxes go to that purpose, because I've seen the good it does. It's a win win situation. Having an individual contribute below his or her potential because they skipped or delayed college is a net loss for society. What you are proposing is going to result in overall reduction in productive potential and competitiveness of Americans which will more than offset whatever tax savings you think this is going to deliver.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I have not seen anywhere where the Federal government is requiring the states to cut back on the colleges/universities available. What the states do it their chose w/ respect to Federal educational funds.

I am talking about the handouts in terms of special grants/loans that people get out of a pot and never put back in. that is what the Feds are attempting on cutting back - trimming out some of the waste.

Once can make it through engineering school in 4-5 years while working and raising a family.

Grades may not be as good and the social aspects are missed but it has been done.

And based on some of the curriculum that I have seen in different state schools over the past 10 years, it is potentially easier now to slip through, having all the technology tools and additional information available that initially to hours of research.

 

[Tom]

Negative.

You do understand that widely available government funded higher education and research is by far the most significant advancement in human history ?

That the Louisiana Purchase, Alaska Purchase, Westward expansion, freeing slaves, freeing women, the invention of the corporation, the invention of money, the invention of writing, democracy, liberty, individual rights, are all liberal ideas ?

There are good things about conservative ideas too, frugality, keeping things that work, being aware of history, precedent.

There's no necessity for any person to be exclusively a liberal or a conservative, pitting people against one another is just a good tactic for gaining power.

 

[Naeeldar]

Community colleges are tax supported, so they are handouts too. So saying you can go to a CC instead of getting a handout to study in college is a logical fallacy.
Being able to pay for a full unsubsidized private college tuition while working with just a high school diploma and still having time to finish in 5 years is highly unlikely. There are only so many hours in a day, and with just a high school diploma, you are going to have to work so many hours just to bring in enough money to support yourself and pay for school that you won't have time to seriously study anything worthwhile. There is hardly enough time to study in engineering school as it is. You'd need to bring home around 40K to pay full private tuition and support yourself. With only a high school diploma, even if you get $15/hr, that's 50 hours a week. You aren't going to have time to go to lectures and do homeworks with that sort of schedule. So most likely you are going to do it part time, which means your career is going to be set back several years if not permanently.
I don't refuse to provide the funding, I am more than happy to have my taxes go to that purpose, because I've seen the good it does. It's a win win situation. Having an individual contribute below his or her potential because they skipped or delayed college is a net loss for society. What you are proposing is going to result in overall reduction in productive potential and competitiveness of Americans which will more than offset whatever tax savings you think this is going to deliver.

That's faulty logic. IT assumes everybody in the program does well for themselves. The fact of the matter many programs need more oversight (not neccesarily the ones designed to fund education). But wellfare and a few others. Healthcare for all? No thanks. More taxes on me to pay for healthcare for those under 18? Sure. It's also absolutely nuts that somebody on wellfare can pop out another kid and get more money. Then again if I'm honest I also believe woman on wellfare should have to be under the depo shot.

There's a balance to be had and it's neither right nor left but somewhere in the middle. Both sides want to point to the other as to who is at fault for our current fiscal situation when the reality is both sides are at fault.

Anyway entitlements are bad when they have no requirements. When they do they can be very useful to society in the RIGHT situations.

At the end of the day the hart right has to admit there are times you need to provide entitlements or even bail out a large company in order to cause a more adverse impact on the economy. The hard left needs to admit you can't save everybody.

Neither side will do that in the current political situation.. Which is why nothing will get truly get fixed. Down the road when it's so dire it has to happen, you'll finally see compromise.

 

[theeedude]

I have not seen anywhere where the Federal government is requiring the states to cut back on the colleges/universities available. What the states do it their chose w/ respect to Federal educational funds.

The whole state vs federal is just a cop-out. You know the states don't have the money to pick up the slack if the federal government doesn't support higher education.

I am talking about the handouts in terms of special grants/loans that people get out of a pot and never put back in. that is what the Feds are attempting on cutting back - trimming out some of the waste.

Like what? Pell grants and student loans?

Once can make it through engineering school in 4-5 years while working and raising a family.

Grades may not be as good and the social aspects are missed but it has been done.

"It has been done" should not be driving government policy. Most likely you aren't going to make it in 4-5 years, and even if you did, the bad grades would be an indicator of performance below potential, and would set back your career.

And based on some of the curriculum that I have seen in different state schools over the past 10 years, it is potentially easier now to slip through, having all the technology tools and additional information available that initially to hours of research.

So what you are saying is a few people may potentially slip through college under what you are proposing. That is not good enough.

 

[theeedude]

That's faulty logic. IT assumes everybody in the program does well for themselves.

No it doesn't. It assumes that on average people do better for themselves than they would otherwise. The logic fault is all yours.

The fact of the matter many programs need more oversight (not neccesarily the ones designed to fund education). But wellfare and a few others. Healthcare for all? No thanks. More taxes on me to pay for healthcare for those under 18? Sure. It's also absolutely nuts that somebody on wellfare can pop out another kid and get more money. Then again if I'm honest I also believe woman on wellfare should have to be under the depo shot.

What do you think WIC is? Women, infants and children. Health care and bare sustenance for kids. Contrary to what you may believe, they aren't living it up. Every child born in the US is a citizen, here to stay. You can save money on preventative care and nutrition now to have them grow up sick and bankrupt the country with health care costs and stunted productivity down the road.

 

[Naeeldar]

No it doesn't. It assumes that on average people do better for themselves than they would otherwise. The logic fault is all yours.

What do you think WIC is? Women, infants and children. Health care and bare sustenance for kids. Contrary to what you may believe, they aren't living it up. Every child born in the US is a citizen, here to stay. You can save money on preventative care and nutrition now to have them grow up sick and bankrupt the country with health care costs and stunted productivity down the road.

I said under 18 not woman. I also called out the general healthcare law. but way to cherry pick my post. BTW a number of states provide healthcare for children already. Quite frankly the Healthcare plan Obama signed is a monsterous bill that will cost trillions.

Anyway I stand by what I said the hard left is to left and the hard right is to right. Which is why we get a joke of a system.

 

[Matt1970]

No it doesn't. It assumes that on average people do better for themselves than they would otherwise. The logic fault is all yours.

What do you think WIC is? Women, infants and children. Health care and bare sustenance for kids. Contrary to what you may believe, they aren't living it up. Every child born in the US is a citizen, here to stay. You can save money on preventative care and nutrition now to have them grow up sick and bankrupt the country with health care costs and stunted productivity down the road.

WIC is actually a good program and harder to scam. The actual managers of the stores have to sign off on each transaction and the cards are for specific items and very limited in what they can buy.

 

[manimal]

WIC is actually a good program and harder to scam. The actual managers of the stores have to sign off on each transaction and the cards are for specific items and very limited in what they can buy.

the problem with WIC is that rednecks have to wait in line for a LONG time to buy their beer because it takes so damn long to process each individual voucher taking over an hour in cases where a whole months food is being redeemed...


Those rednecks complained to a focus group who saw blood in the water...



Its like Jon Kyle of Arizona bold face lying about 90 percent of what planned parenthood does is abortions when the reality is only 3 percent of what PP does is abortion service related...and btw that 3 percent comes from private money since we already have the Hyde amendment..


my god have I awoken in a bizzaro world full falsehoods and lies?

 

[sandorski]

Protip: There will always be an Underclass/Poor. Welfare and other Social Programs are not intended to eliminate that Class, but to provide a minimum standard of living above Poverty for that Class.

With Unemployment being 20%(ish by certain criteria), it seems rather odd that anyone would be take up the old "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" talking point. Now, more than ever, these Programs are vital. Without them you'd have Egypt and Tunisia happening where you live.

 

[manimal]

Protip: There will always be an Underclass/Poor. Welfare and other Social Programs are not intended to eliminate that Class, but to provide a minimum standard of living above Poverty for that Class.

With Unemployment being 20%(ish by certain criteria), it seems rather odd that anyone would be take up the old "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" talking point. Now, more than ever, these Programs are vital. Without them you'd have Egypt and Tunisia happening where you live.

I imagine the movie "Running Man" with food riots....

 

[Muse]

It seems that all of the social and economic policies that Republicans love to tout just keep the underclass in their place. And that place is in the pockets of the Republican party and their contributors.

Fixed.

 

[DCal430]

This is complete B.S no one on the left wants this. We want to end poverty, we want to end inequality. We want to raise people up, and make their lives better. The right is the one that wants people to live in mud huts, working as slaves.

 

[dmcowen674]

Why does the left want everyone to be bottom-feeding lowlife trash?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theti...-the-house-gop-ever-agree-science-suggests-no

4-12-2011

Brain differs in GOP, Dems

Using data from MRI scans, researchers at the University College London found that self-described liberals have a larger anterior cingulate cortex--a gray matter of the brain associated with understanding complexity.

Meanwhile, self-described conservatives are more likely to have a larger amygdala, an almond-shaped area that is associated with fear and anxiety.

The study, which was conducted with the help of 90 young adult volunteers, comes on the heels of other research that linked political beliefs to genetic differences between liberals and conservatives.

One unknown is whether people are simply born with their political beliefs or if our brains adjust to life experiences

"It's very unlikely that actual political orientation is directly encoded in these brain regions," he said in a statement accompanying the study.

"More work is needed to determine how these brain structures mediate the formation of political attitude."
------------------------------------------------------------

It's pretty clear, Republicans are full of fear, anxiety, simple minded and are just plain wusses

Its no wonder they hate the country

 

[DominionSeraph]

I think I made it pretty cut and dry. Social programs do not help lift the have-nots out of poverty, it keeps them in their place.

And the slavery of slaves lifts them out of slavery?

The underclass are relatively defined, and it doesn't hurt to designate that a percentage of the slave-owners' profits from slavery goes back to the slaves who earned it. It doesn't "keep them in their place" -- they weren't going much of anywhere anyway.

 

[theeedude]

I said under 18 not woman. I also called out the general healthcare law. but way to cherry pick my post. BTW a number of states provide healthcare for children already. Quite frankly the Healthcare plan Obama signed is a monsterous bill that will cost trillions.

Anyway I stand by what I said the hard left is to left and the hard right is to right. Which is why we get a joke of a system.

Yeah, guess where $3.5B of the $39B in cuts GOP dredged up came from? Health care assistance for poor children.

 

[trenchfoot]

I wonder where veteran's benefits, ie - GI Bill, VA healthcare, home loans, etc. fit in with the far right conservative views being expressed in this thread.

These benefits, afterall, are primarily aimed at veterans from the ascribed "bottom-feeding lowlife" category mentioned by the OP.

If it's any indication, I recall the Bush administration sending our beloved troops off to war while simultaneously attempting to cut veteran's benefits, especially medical benefits, as part of their effort to "cut the cost of government" and all of this after giving the rich a healthy tax cut.

 

[Naeeldar]

Yeah, guess where $3.5B of the $39B in cuts GOP dredged up came from? Health care assistance for poor children.

This is exactly what I'm talking about both sides want to point the finger. Neither is willing to admit that both sides has screwed up royally.

Nothing is going to change in this country until things get so bad it has to change.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's pretty clear, Republicans are full of fear, anxiety, simple minded and are just plain wusses

Its no wonder they hate the country

Hmmm, you voted for Bush twice..........

 

[nick1985]

This is exactly what I'm talking about both sides want to point the finger. Neither is willing to admit that both sides has screwed up royally.

Nothing is going to change in this country until things get so bad it has to change.

You will never hear senseamp say anything bad about Democrats. He is a certified koolaid drinker

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

The liberal social experiment is what took this country from a depressed free market failure to a global economic and geopolitical superpower. The conservative social experiment is taking it all the way back to a depressed free market failure.

If you mean World War II then you'd be correct. So the only social program that helped us where the Nazi of WWII which we fought against, and then the fight against Communism, aka the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

If you think internal social programs that made poor people dependant on the government made this nation better you're a damn fool.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Another blatant troll thread that should be locked. WTF is going on here?

 

[HomerJS]

I don't see the right rushing to end oil company subsidies, tax breakes for sending jobs overseas, farm subsidies, etc....

FAIL