Why does nvidia cheat so much?

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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,406
2,727
136
mosox said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Nvidia used shills and still does it. They introduced the requirement for their Focus members to disclose their association with the group only after they've been called out on it.

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products.html


Nvidia who knows their online activity in the field does not enforce this disclosure even today, most of the Focus members do not specify it.
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Shill. Over-used word in AMDZone. They use the same argument vs Intel. For true enthusiasts, main thing that matters is performance. Unbiased reviews, tests, FPS, product features is what enthusiasts go by. I dont believe for a moment that any so called 'shill' will change that. For some, however, it seems performance is not as much a consideration as a companies ethics, and we often see that as a justification for their hardware preferences.

So as there may be 'company shills', seems there are 'ethics shills' too. Not much difference imo. Both seek to influence opinion for whatever reason, purpose or agenda they may have. Only bad thing for enthusiasts imo, is when there is a diversion from what is important, the hardware specifics, performance, etc towards these side issues or agendas that have little or nothing to do with it. Not sure if the 'ethics shills' are genuine in all cases though, some simply do not like seeing their hardware deemed 'second best' nor do they like the deflatory effect it may have on their e-peens. In which case, an ethics based rationale or argument, is a convenient cover. :p
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
106
SirPauly said:
.....
I think the focus group is a good idea -- as long as it is noted and no one is going behind the gamers back because it is good to know what the IHV's point of view is and also nice to know you can voice a view or ask a question and one can help.

One can disagree, be vocal but the best kinds of views for me are the ones that are constructive in nature.

Gamers in forums don't desire to be PR'd so-to-speak. This is their haven, their sharing of views with each other.
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IMO focus groups are just a euphemism for shills. IIRC Nvidia gave free cards to their viral marketeers/focus group members incl Rollo. He spent alot of time talking up Nvidia and defended Nvidia's broken purevideo functionality in the 6 series until it became even too ludicrous for him.
 
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,406
2,727
136
bononos said:
IMO focus groups are just a euphemism for shills. IIRC Nvidia gave free cards to their viral marketeers/focus group members incl Rollo.
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lol, as I said. If you cant beat the hardware on its merits, divert attention to other issues that have nothing to do with it.
 
Jacky60

Jacky60

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2010
1,123
0
0
mosox said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Nvidia used shills and still does it. They introduced the requirement for their Focus members to disclose their association with the group only after they've been called out on it.

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products.html


Nvidia who knows their online activity in the field does not enforce this disclosure even today, most of the Focus members do not specify it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this its abundantly clear reading posts in this thread who is who.
 
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RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
My take is that AMD is capable of the same and need to stop playing the victim card continously.

TWIMTBP program has been around for a long time now and ATI can either step up their GITG program or keep blaming nvidia

Business ethics are generally practiced in text books. The real world is unfortunately much more cut throat. I wish this was not the case but you just have to accept it and adapt. I will say that it's been nice to see ATI being a little more involved on their developer relations. We know nvidia won't let up so it's nice to see ATI respond accordingly.

The one thing I don't like about nvidia is their lock on PhysX. They should open support having a mixed environment for PhysX. It would allow for better adoption by studios. That's the right way to push the tech.

The whole focus group thing is a joke. I have no respect for anyone involved in such marketing stunts, regardless of the company. Their focus is to hammer the awesomeness of their employer repeatedly.

I don't have a problem with nvidia's developer relations. More power to them. Just make PhysX run out of the box in mixed mode and dissolve the focus group. It bad enough to have to deal with fanboys on a general basis but when you start paying them for their efforts, it just becomes cancerous to the community. Their motivation and agressiveness skyrockets.

Ulimtately, in my recent build last week, I ended up with a Zotac GTX580 AMP. Why? because it's a fast card and I got it for a stupidly cheap price.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
I'm definitely getting the impression that there is rampant ignorance afoot regarding what a focus group is used for, its purpose, and how being a part of a focus group - in any industry - is not tantamount to being a part of a marketing campaign or shill effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_group

The ignorance is expected if we are dealing with an otherwise young, professionally inexperienced, and easily misguided demographic in these forums.

Ignorance is not a bad thing, we are all born into this world ignorant of most things. The purpose of education is to eliminate the ignorance.

However, arrogance undermines the efforts to eliminate ignorance.

And it is the arrogance demonstrated in this thread that really has me shaking my head. So many of you folks are ignorant, no shame in that as we are all ignorant of most things as some point in our lives, but you have at your disposal the mental faculty necessary to eliminate this ignorance by seeking out knowledge and education that will enlighten you no different than how that geometry class in high-school taught you things about triangles you had no idea existed before.

But, alas, the arrogance appears to be getting in the way, clouding your own motives to hold onto something that simply does not exist. Taking swings at demons that only exist in your heads.

300yrs ago it was the same sort of arrogance fueled ignorance that created witch hunts and the mob mentality that saw so many innocent people burned or drowned.

And that's what I see happening here, a modern day witch hunt. Only the witches are focus group members, and their powers come from the evil that is Nvidia. And because your cow, or your neighbors cow, or you heard of someone's cow in the next town over, has died of the plague you have decided a witch needs to be burned because there can't possibly be any more rationale of a reason for the events.

Dark evil sinister doings are afoot. It can't possibly be anything else.

Sigh...and its sad because it is so obvious, and yet it is also quite obvious that nothing any one here has to say will ever overcome the arrogance that is at fault for the ignorance continuing to exist in the first place. And for that you have my pity.
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
106
Idontcare said:
I'm definitely getting the impression that there is rampant ignorance afoot regarding what a focus group is used for, its purpose, and how being a part of a focus group - in any industry - is not tantamount to being a part of a marketing campaign or shill effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_group

.....stuff about witches....
Click to expand...

Its all too easy for big corps to hijack focus groups or at least influence them.
They know that big boards like AT have many key opinion leaders that could be susceptible to regular donations of high end video cards and early beta drivers - all in the name of science of course. The shadows grow long in the hallway, treachery is afoot!
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Rifterut said:
DirectX is NOT a open standard. Open GL is an open standard.
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I never said it was. My point is that both nVidia and AMD had the ability to work with and program for Direct X 9. The same is not true for PhysX, CUDA, or C for Graphics.
 
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Pantalaimon

Senior member
Feb 6, 2006
341
40
91
Idontcare said:
And that's what I see happening here, a modern day witch hunt. Only the witches are focus group members, and their powers come from the evil that is Nvidia. And because your cow, or your neighbors cow, or you heard of someone's cow in the next town over, has died of the plague you have decided a witch needs to be burned because there can't possibly be any more rationale of a reason for the events.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously believe that Rollo's posting behavior while he was here, and continues to post on other forums, is acceptable? I think we all know what a focus group is in theory and on paper, but when a focus group is dominated by someone like Rollo, is it any wonder that people mistrust other focus group members as well?

So far Rollo continues to be a focus group member despite his atrocious posting behavior for years now. What kind of conclusion can we draw from that except that NVIDIA, who runs the focus group, approves of that behavior?
 
JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
The whole thing was altered after it was all found out. It became a focus group but the company that ran the "project" was a viral marketing specialist company.
 
JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
amenx said:
So Intels practices were not enough to disuade you from purchasing their hardware, but Nvidias are. Got it. :sneaky:
Click to expand...

Nvidia's practices affected me on a personal level right here on these forums.

If intel came onto these forums and secretly tried to alter peoples perceptions of their products I would be just as pissed at them. As far I know they didnt, nvidia did.

Let my response to nvidias attempts at a ruse be a warning to other companies.

Do not fuck with us.
 
3

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Idontcare said:
I'm definitely getting the impression that there is rampant ignorance afoot regarding what a focus group is used for, its purpose, and how being a part of a focus group - in any industry - is not tantamount to being a part of a marketing campaign or shill effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_group
Click to expand...

A wiki definition doesn't define the practices of the group. They can call themselves anything they want to. You know the actions that the group have taken and that the wiki definition doesn't fit it. :confused:
 
NIGELG

NIGELG

Senior member
Nov 4, 2009
852
31
91
Idontcare said:
I'm definitely getting the impression that there is rampant ignorance afoot regarding what a focus group is used for, its purpose, and how being a part of a focus group - in any industry - is not tantamount to being a part of a marketing campaign or shill effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_group

The ignorance is expected if we are dealing with an otherwise young, professionally inexperienced, and easily misguided demographic in these forums.

Ignorance is not a bad thing, we are all born into this world ignorant of most things. The purpose of education is to eliminate the ignorance.

However, arrogance undermines the efforts to eliminate ignorance.

And it is the arrogance demonstrated in this thread that really has me shaking my head. So many of you folks are ignorant, no shame in that as we are all ignorant of most things as some point in our lives, but you have at your disposal the mental faculty necessary to eliminate this ignorance by seeking out knowledge and education that will enlighten you no different than how that geometry class in high-school taught you things about triangles you had no idea existed before.

But, alas, the arrogance appears to be getting in the way, clouding your own motives to hold onto something that simply does not exist. Taking swings at demons that only exist in your heads.

300yrs ago it was the same sort of arrogance fueled ignorance that created witch hunts and the mob mentality that saw so many innocent people burned or drowned.

And that's what I see happening here, a modern day witch hunt. Only the witches are focus group members, and their powers come from the evil that is Nvidia. And because your cow, or your neighbors cow, or you heard of someone's cow in the next town over, has died of the plague you have decided a witch needs to be burned because there can't possibly be any more rationale of a reason for the events.

Dark evil sinister doings are afoot. It can't possibly be anything else.

Sigh...and its sad because it is so obvious, and yet it is also quite obvious that nothing any one here has to say will ever overcome the arrogance that is at fault for the ignorance continuing to exist in the first place. And for that you have my pity.
Click to expand...
LOL,LOL,lol...seriously....but no one here asks for,or needs your pity or your patronizing,whether they are ignorant,arrogant or whatever.

This particular Focus Group and their Master have only themselves to blame for the secrecy and clandestine attempts to hijack forums and influence their members....as well as their contempt for persons who dare to ask questions and their poor choice of membership for this Focus Group.
 
Keysplayr

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
It's probably best to just ignore the arrogant ones. The damaged ones. Rollo isn't here. Keysplayr is. If anyone has any real questions about the focus group, feel free to ask. I think it only fair to the ones who would otherwise be damaged by the already damaged.
Idontcare, you have a lot of wisdom in your words, and I believe you are correct that absolutely no amount of words can ease their minds or enlighten them. They are most comfortable where they are and that's where they'll stay. I'll just deal with them as I always have.
 
Keysplayr

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Madcatatlas said:
Jacko....lol, how low can you go man?


Reported of course and I hope someone tells you a few things about the code of conduct.
Click to expand...

This is very sad Madcatatlas. I have no idea why you would ever in a million years consider this reportable. I'm on Earth. Where are you?
And there is such a thing as abusing the report function.
Lastly, actually telling someone that you're reporting them is a spiteful act. Lots of malice in you.
 
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Keysplayr

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
NIGELG said:
LOL,LOL,lol...seriously....but no one here asks for,or needs your pity or your patronizing,whether they are ignorant,arrogant or whatever.

The beauty of it is, Nigel, is that he offered it unasked. He seems to be truly saddened and I don't believe for a second that he was patronizing anyone.

This particular Focus Group and their Master have only themselves to blame for the secrecy and clandestine attempts to hijack forums and influence their members....as well as their contempt for persons who dare to ask questions and their poor choice of membership for this Focus Group.
Click to expand...

Don't you hear the bile in your own words here? It ain't healthy dude. You don't know me, nor do you care to. Easier to hate and condemn what your ignorant of I guess.
 
JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
keys you became a "focus group" member after they were caught doing the viral marketing thing. They probably did this because you were a well respected member of this community and they wanted to bring credibility to their new "focus group". And thats fine, I have no beef with you however I dont really hang out in here (vc&g) that much anymore so i dont really see the crap spew anymore and the damage was already done in my mind anyhow.

I dont even really understand why videocards are sooooo important to some people in here. Its almost like their livelihoods depended on it :)

I have a 6970 and before that a 4890 and before that a 8800gts 640mb. Think about those timelines and think about when the viral marketing was exposed.

I also have a halo effect on a lot of people around me so their is a multiplication of my buying habits. Lesson learned?
 
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