Why does nvidia cheat so much?

[Madcatatlas]

Its a serious question if you read trought the topic and understand that "cheating" in this case, is worded as a negative attribute/thing.

It reflects negatively on Nvidia.

but ofcourse with reasoning like yours, one kind gets the deal...

 

[3DVagabond]

Why does nvidia cheat so much?

To outdo Intel and there cheating?
Is this a serious question or did someone forget to take business 101 ?

Business 101? You have to go to Harvard grad school to get to this level of sleaze. :joke:

Haven't seen you for a while. Welcome back.

 

[amenx]

Why does nvidia cheat so much?

To outdo Intel and there cheating?
Is this a serious question or did someone forget to take business 101 ?

Reminds me of the howling at AMDZone vs Intel. Similarly, an AMD GPU clique is out there in the wild (with a few fanatics here) who do the same vs Nvidia. The rationale: "darn, they beat me in performance, must find away a way to make them look bad so I will feel better about my lesser performing card". Of course notwithstanding the few oddballs who may sincerely hate Nvidia yet still love their GPUs and will hang on to them forevermore as they spew their hate (hello grooveriding).

 

[3DVagabond]

Reminds me of the howling at AMDZone vs Intel. Similarly, an AMD GPU clique is out there in the wild (with a few fanatics here) who do the same vs Nvidia. The rationale: "darn, they beat me in performance, must find away a way to make them look bad so I will feel better about my lesser performing card". Of course notwithstanding the few oddballs who may sincerely hate Nvidia yet still love their GPUs and will hang on to them forevermore as they spew their hate (hello grooveriding).

No way there are any Intel or nVidia fanboys though?

 

[amenx]

No way there are any Intel or nVidia fanboys though?

I'm sure there are.. but none as loud or vocal as the other side. Or who are as obsessed.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm sure there are.. but none as loud or vocal as the other side. Or who are as obsessed.

Maybe you should take the blinders off. Fanbois, are fanbois, are fanbois...

 

[amenx]

Maybe you should take the blinders off. Fanbois, are fanbois, are fanbois...

Ah.. self reflection? Show me an AMD bashing thread by one of the 'fanbois' here then lets look at the Nvidia ones. :whiste:

 

[imaheadcase]

This thread makes me laugh.

 

[Keysplayr]

Don't respond to my posts, then. If you aren't taking me seriously then you must be just trolling me. That would explain perfectly why you respond while ignoring or twisting any points in my posts.

Honestly dude, if you don't like what I'm saying I can't help that. I said don't "expect" me to take you seriously, not that I "wouldn't". When you come up with a valid argument instead of this utter rubbish you an a few other members here are spewing, I'll surely hear you. Until then, I'm sorry but you are just a ranting a bitter rant to my eyes.

@imaheadcase: It makes me laugh too.

 

[SirPauly]

If we let game devs cater to the strengths of either brand we are the ones who will suffer in the long run. Just like the hardware has compromises for balance, so should the games to.

I don't see it that way. There are compromises, one can lower settings, or not use the added features.

 

[KCfromNC]

I'll discuss anything, anytime, when it comes to technology.

OK, any time you want to get back to the topic of low power heterogeneous cores not being an nVidia innovation I'll be happy to discuss it. For some reason you keep wanting to talk about anything but this fact.

 

[SirPauly]

If BF3 contained a sequence requiring fast hashing/number crunching ala password cracking/bitcoin mining etc the NVDA cards would get disintegrated by ATi's architecture.
I can imagine the howls of "unfair",rigged", "OMG we wuz robbed"!...and yet when we see(sic) vast oceans of tessellation that obviously favor NVDA's hardware...its "Aww....Jen takes care of us so well"
It's disgusting.:thumbsdown:

How does one do this?

 

[SirPauly]

OK, any time you want to get back to the topic of low power heterogeneous cores not being an nVidia innovation I'll be happy to discuss it. For some reason you keep wanting to talk about anything but this fact.

There are over 100 articles about it. The key is you're alone, imho, by offering zero credit.

 

[SirPauly]

Its a serious question if you read trought the topic and understand that "cheating" in this case, is worded as a negative attribute/thing.

It reflects negatively on Nvidia.

but of course with reasoning like yours, one kind gets the deal...

The only time I thought nVidia was cheating was in 3dmark -- and crossed the subjective line. Optimizations that trade image quality for performance starts the subjective slippery slope to me but depends on how far each IHV decides to slide down --- go behind the developers back? Behind the gamers back? Aggressive optimizations to influence benches?

It's great that AMD and nVidia police each other but it's also great that third parties and even gamers offer investigations, too. All this talk on Crysis 2 is good to me and have no problem investigating the tessellation in the title and asking questions and trying to get more answers.

 

[sontin]

OK, any time you want to get back to the topic of low power heterogeneous cores not being an nVidia innovation I'll be happy to discuss it. For some reason you keep wanting to talk about anything but this fact.

This has nothing to do with Heterogeneous computing.

 

[Genx87]

If BF3 contained a sequence requiring fast hashing/number crunching ala password cracking/bitcoin mining etc the NVDA cards would get disintegrated by ATi's architecture.
I can imagine the howls of "unfair",rigged", "OMG we wuz robbed"!...and yet when we see(sic) vast oceans of tessellation that obviously favor NVDA's hardware...its "Aww....Jen takes care of us so well"
It's disgusting.:thumbsdown:

No, but questions about why a game is bitcoining\cracking passwords when it should be rendering a frame.

Tessellation directly relates to how a game looks. Password cracking\bitcoining does not. Analogy fail.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Hello mate, heres a scenario where password cracking would provide a gameplay change depending on card.

It would ofcourse not be anything critical, but lets say in DeusEx 3.., opening a locked door takes half as long on a AMD card compared to a Nvidia card. Half as long is an extreme im using so you get the point and start thinking what you would do if you had a worse gameplay experiance because you own the wrong producers card.... it must suck right? ... ofcourse it would be Nvidias fault right? it would with your thinking anyway.

Keep at it!

 

[SirPauly]

If AMD did have a strength and desired to get this strength in gaming titles, which adds value to their customers, may offer a competitive advantage to boot -- fantastic.

Let's take 10.1, nVidia didn't offer it -- thought it was great to see 10.1 in gaming titles and the work AMD did.

The great thing about nVidia's developer relations; AMD has been more aggressive for their customers, which translates into more quality, features, immersion, pushing the technology envelope over what the developer may of intended for PC titles.

AMD and nVidia have different visions, strengths and weaknesses, so it can't be ideal and be some sort of socialism gaming for all, especially in a competitive landscape. There is so much good because PC gaming as a whole is improved with the help of both AMD and nVidia. If some desire to cherry pick just the negatives and ignore the immense good that both have done, fine! But, for me, I don't desire idealism to be the enemy of good.

 

[Seero]

Hello mate, heres a scenario where password cracking would provide a gameplay change depending on card.

It would ofcourse not be anything critical, but lets say in DeusEx 3.., opening a locked door takes half as long on a AMD card compared to a Nvidia card. Half as long is an extreme im using so you get the point and start thinking what you would do if you had a worse gameplay experiance because you own the wrong producers card.... it must suck right? ... ofcourse it would be Nvidias fault right? it would with your thinking anyway.

Keep at it!

Stop dreaming. I will like to see AMD try to make something 2x fast as Nvidia in gaming. No really, I really want to see that happen. Forget about 2x, just say 20% faster than what is suppose to be, I'll be happy, and you will be happy. But, neither you, me, nvidia or anyone in this forum can make this happen. AMD is the one who needs to get their feet wet on the issue.

 

[MutantGith]

Hello mate, heres a scenario where password cracking would provide a gameplay change depending on card.

It would ofcourse not be anything critical, but lets say in DeusEx 3.., opening a locked door takes half as long on a AMD card compared to a Nvidia card. Half as long is an extreme im using so you get the point and start thinking what you would do if you had a worse gameplay experiance because you own the wrong producers card.... it must suck right? ... ofcourse it would be Nvidias fault right? it would with your thinking anyway.

Keep at it!

Nope. Personally, I'd have a huge problem with any developer and/or publisher that released such a feature. Not that that would happen. Square-Enix might be making some silly decisions, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense for any company to sell software that is intentionally hobbled on ~50% of the prospective customers on purpose.

Now, as a bug or a poor optimization that didn't play nicely with one camp's cards, I might see. But in that case, there would be an outcry to patch either the game or hotfix drivers, or both. Sort of like what happened with Dragon Age II. Except that happened without a huge amount of outcry and finger pointing.

I'm still not sure what sort of legitimate point this thread was ever intended to present, or what issues were intended to debate, but as a spectacle of entertainment, this whole conversation is impressive.

 

[Spikesoldier]

Why does nvidia cheat so much?

To outdo Intel and there cheating?
Is this a serious question or did someone forget to take business 101 ?

happy's right guys.

I think the fundamental differences are in management and believe both are very talented when it comes to engineering. I think when AMD offered they need to be more aggressive and the predator, that's the kind of mind-set to lead. Hopefully it can come to fruition.

sirpauly brings up a big key point about the differences in management.


<business 101>

to sum it up, NV and Intel are GREAT pure capitalists. they are both very strong financially. i think the differences in management has a lot to do with that.

but what do pure capitalists do? crush the competition. do anything to eliminate them.

pure capitalists believe that there should be ONE supplier of any given good or service. i.e. one airline, one ISP, one GPU maker, one CPU maker.

once this has been done, then the next step is to jack up prices given that there is no competition or alternative. it would be hard for us as gamers to cheer NV if they like intel jack up prices when there is no competition.

for example, look at Intel in the CPU market. Intel knows they have AMD beat on performance and are taking advantage of it. good for business, bad for customers.

K series CPUs: enthusiasts now have to pay a premium to OC while all other chips OC is gimped or disabled. no more outstanding OC's on low end chips. gotta pay to play.

SB-E (X78): a platform that will cost $1000.00 for entry, not including VGA card(s). $600 for the cheapest CPU, $300 for the cheapest mainboard, and $100 for 16GB DDR3. gotta pay to play.

so why are we (gamers) experiencing higher prices? lack of competition. when AMD is fully ran into the dirt, you can bet the scene after that is definitely going to be 'gotta pay to play' in both the GPU and CPU markets.

also look at the proposed Tmobile + AT&T deal and how it got blocked on the grounds of 'would mean higher prices for customers, lower innovation, and less choice' for customers.

imagine how much worse it would be if there truly was no sprint, verizon, or smaller third-party carriers to choose from if they let that one go through.



to answer the question: why does NV cheat so much?

A: because they are GOOD pure capitalists

</business lesson>

 

[SirPauly]

Nope. Personally, I'd have a huge problem with any developer and/or publisher that released such a feature. Not that that would happen. Square-Enix might be making some silly decisions, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense for any company to sell software that is intentionally hobbled on ~50% of the prospective customers on purpose.

Now, as a bug or a poor optimization that didn't play nicely with one camp's cards, I might see. But in that case, there would be an outcry to patch either the game or hotfix drivers, or both. Sort of like what happened with Dragon Age II. Except that happened without a huge amount of outcry and finger pointing.

I'm still not sure what sort of legitimate point this thread was ever intended to present, or what issues were intended to debate, but as a spectacle of entertainment, this whole conversation is impressive.

I don't understand this. But what you're taking away is the choice to 50 percent of the customer base. Why should they go without?

 

[mosox]

Nvidia criticizing/bashing!= AMD fanboy.

As opposed to many Focus guys who praise Nvidia (Physx, CUDA, etc) I see very little AMD praising in here or on other forums.

I know someone who saw his gaming laptop turn into a $1500 paperweight thanks to Nvidia and who said that he has a score to settle with them when asked why he constantly attacks Nvidia and recommends only ATI cards. Many have a score to settle with Creative or other HW or SW firms.

Me and many others from my country have a score to settle with Microsoft from back when Mr Gates visited my country and did some nasty stuff to us, PC users.

 

[NIGELG]

happy's right guys.



sirpauly brings up a big key point about the differences in management.


<business 101>

to sum it up, NV and Intel are GREAT pure capitalists. they are both very strong financially. i think the differences in management has a lot to do with that.

but what do pure capitalists do? crush the competition. do anything to eliminate them.

pure capitalists believe that there should be ONE supplier of any given good or service. i.e. one airline, one ISP, one GPU maker, one CPU maker.

once this has been done, then the next step is to jack up prices given that there is no competition or alternative. it would be hard for us as gamers to cheer NV if they like intel jack up prices when there is no competition.

for example, look at Intel in the CPU market. Intel knows they have AMD beat on performance and are taking advantage of it. good for business, bad for customers.

K series CPUs: enthusiasts now have to pay a premium to OC while all other chips OC is gimped or disabled. no more outstanding OC's on low end chips. gotta pay to play.

SB-E (X78): a platform that will cost $1000.00 for entry, not including VGA card(s). $600 for the cheapest CPU, $300 for the cheapest mainboard, and $100 for 16GB DDR3. gotta pay to play.

so why are we (gamers) experiencing higher prices? lack of competition. when AMD is fully ran into the dirt, you can bet the scene after that is definitely going to be 'gotta pay to play' in both the GPU and CPU markets.

also look at the proposed Tmobile + AT&T deal and how it got blocked on the grounds of 'would mean higher prices for customers, lower innovation, and less choice' for customers.

imagine how much worse it would be if there truly was no sprint, verizon, or smaller third-party carriers to choose from if they let that one go through.



to answer the question: why does NV cheat so much?

A: because they are GOOD pure capitalists

</business lesson>

Good post,the long view is not seen by many.When or if AMD goes out of business be prepared to pay a huge ,huge price to be a PC gamer.

We need some more competition by third parties in the CPU and GPU markets.

 

[SirPauly]

Nvidia criticizing/bashing!= AMD fanboy.

As opposed to many Focus guys who praise Nvidia (Physx, CUDA, etc) I see very little AMD praising in here or on other forums.

I know someone who saw his gaming laptop turn into a $1500 paperweight thanks to Nvidia and who said that he has a score to settle with them when asked why he constantly attacks Nvidia and recommends only ATI cards. Many have a score to settle with Creative or other HW or SW firms.

Me and many others from my country have a score to settle with Microsoft from back when Mr Gates visited my country and did some nasty stuff to us, PC users.

I see a lot. I see some nice performance per dollar, nice performance per nm, innovation and trying to improve performance per watt, see improvements with developer relations, see features that try to improve the gaming experience like Eyefinity and MLAA. See, strong competition for nVidia and offering compelling products and choice to consider.