Why does everyone say that Newsgroups are so anonymous?

[Night201]

I've been reading newsgroups since the early 90's, but how is it that people think it is so anonymous?

Before you bash me, please note that I never used it for illegal activities, so I've never read up on this, hence my question - which is this:

Do newsgroup servers that the ISP run not log IP Addresses and what messages/files are downloaded/transferred? If not, is that why it is so anonymous? Because they don't? If they don't, why don't they?

 

[chiwawa626]

They've always seemed to be inconvienent...I never really tried to use them as a source for downloads, but they seem like a mess.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Night201
I've been reading newsgroups since the early 90's, but how is it that people think it is so anonymous?

Before you bash me, please note that I never used it for illegal activities, so I've never read up on this, hence my question - which is this:

Do newsgroup servers that the ISP run not log IP Addresses and what messages/files are downloaded/transferred? If not, is that why it is so anonymous? Because they don't? If they don't, why don't they?

There are a couple of Usenet providers that don't log and a couple of others that only keep logs for 24 hours on uploads. So there is in essense some anonymity, but if the cops are involved you won't find anonymity, but you are probably safe from the *AA.

 

[cKGunslinger]

I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

 

[Night201]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

But couldn't they see that you downloaded all of the blocks/parts and tell that you got it all (again, assuming they keep logs)?

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I think the ISP don't keep logs because of how much work it would be to do so and the fact that if they don't keep logs they can say they're not responsible for what's uploaded or downloaded. Not keeping logs is a selling point for some services.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know what percentage keep much logs, but some NG servers specifically state that they do not.

I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

I think it's semantics...and it didn't defend torrents. NG are really the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and I'm still not sure why the RIAA or MPAA hasn't hit them. They are easy targets blatantly "selling" their wares. Users could, of course, migrate to out-of-country NG servers, and they'd be totally impervious then, but I am not sure why in-country ones are still allowed to peddle their illegals.

 

[eelw]

Yeah, everything is still technically trackable on Usenet. But why it hasn't it been targeted yet, who knows. I guess the ratio of Usenet: P2P/BT users is a reason.

 

[jspeicher]

to this day, i still have no clue how to use newsgroups

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: jspeicher
to this day, i still have no clue how to use newsgroups

Good. The less people the better.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know what percentage keep much logs, but some NG servers specifically state that they do not.

I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

I think it's semantics...and it didn't defend torrents. NG are really the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and I'm still not sure why the RIAA or MPAA hasn't hit them. They are easy targets blatantly "selling" their wares. Users could, of course, migrate to out-of-country NG servers, and they'd be totally impervious then, but I am not sure why in-country ones are still allowed to peddle their illegals.

RIAA/MPAA are mostly concerned with the tools that make it easy for John Q. Stupidass to download illegal stuff. John Q. Stupidass hasn't heard about newsgroups on TV yet, and even then, it's not as easy as P2P stuff.

 

[FoBoT]

the news servers ISP can still log access if they want

 

[Night201]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know what percentage keep much logs, but some NG servers specifically state that they do not.

I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

I think it's semantics...and it didn't defend torrents. NG are really the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and I'm still not sure why the RIAA or MPAA hasn't hit them. They are easy targets blatantly "selling" their wares. Users could, of course, migrate to out-of-country NG servers, and they'd be totally impervious then, but I am not sure why in-country ones are still allowed to peddle their illegals.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know what percentage keep much logs, but some NG servers specifically state that they do not.

I'd say because many NG's are private, combined with the fact that most files are broken up into segments, makes it kind of hard to say "this 80 MB block of bits you downloaded last month from some private server is part of an illegal file."

I think it's semantics...and it didn't defend torrents. NG are really the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and I'm still not sure why the RIAA or MPAA hasn't hit them. They are easy targets blatantly "selling" their wares. Users could, of course, migrate to out-of-country NG servers, and they'd be totally impervious then, but I am not sure why in-country ones are still allowed to peddle their illegals.

RIAA/MPAA are mostly concerned with the tools that make it easy for John Q. Stupidass to download illegal stuff. John Q. Stupidass hasn't heard about newsgroups on TV yet, and even then, it's not as easy as P2P stuff.

Yep, but it gets easier all the time, and it stands as a source higher up in the hierarchy.

 

[toekramp]

well let's not forget that newsgroups have a legitmate purpose...just because some users share illegal files doesn't mean the entire thing should be shut down.


(and yes i realize that the same argument can be used for any P2P or BT site/app that has been shut down)

 

[myusername]

NG's suck

 

[MrScott81]

Can we just shut up about newsgroups? They're impossible to use, and even if you figure out how to use them, there's nothing of value on them

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: eelw
Yeah, everything is still technically trackable on Usenet. But why it hasn't it been targeted yet, who knows. I guess the ratio of Usenet: P2P/BT users is a reason.

Not really. There are services that log nothing. Anyone posting through those services is completely insulated and anyone downloading said post is equally insulated. People can and do get caught on usenet, but it's generally either cable kiddies who are dumb enough to post through their ISP server (they generally do keep logs) or widepread warez groups that are big enough to be found. If you or I wanted to rip a DVD and post it we'd be completely anonymous and 100% unfindable as long as we were smart.

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: MrScott81
there's nothing of value on them

Liar!!!! alt.pokemon > you.

 

[chiwawa626]

Can someone recommend some newsgroup software?

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: chiwawa626
Can someone recommend some newsgroup software?

Outlook Express

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: eelw

Originally posted by: chiwawa626
Can someone recommend some newsgroup software?

Outlook Express

Seconded.

 

[Kalvin00]

Originally posted by: MrScott81
Can we just shut up about newsgroups? They're impossible to use, and even if you figure out how to use them, there's nothing of value on them

Seriously, all those broken rars...ugh, i'd rather just buy the software or whatever.

 

[Hammerhead]

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: MrScott81
Can we just shut up about newsgroups? They're impossible to use, and even if you figure out how to use them, there's nothing of value on them

Seriously, all those broken rars...ugh, i'd rather just buy the software or whatever.

hmm. someone hasn't heard of pars

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: eelw
Yeah, everything is still technically trackable on Usenet. But why it hasn't it been targeted yet, who knows. I guess the ratio of Usenet: P2P/BT users is a reason.

Not really. There are services that log nothing. Anyone posting through those services is completely insulated and anyone downloading said post is equally insulated. People can and do get caught on usenet, but it's generally either cable kiddies who are dumb enough to post through their ISP server (they generally do keep logs) or widepread warez groups that are big enough to be found. If you or I wanted to rip a DVD and post it we'd be completely anonymous and 100% unfindable as long as we were smart.

You are over confident. If law enforcement was involved the newsgroup providers servers could be forensically analyized and there are VERY few newsgroup providers that don't log uploads (to combat spam) and once it's written to disk even if it's erased an hour or a minute later that data is recoverable.