Why does ATI's Flagship always compete with Nvidias 2nd Tier Card?

[amenx]

GTX 275 (April 9, 2009) - HD4870 (Jun 25, 2008)
Just saying.

Wrong comparison. The GTX 275 came out to compete with the 4890 (which was released about same time). The 275 was on par with a 280, and we know the 4870 could not touch the 280. The 260 (core 216) was released to supercede the vanilla 260 and counter the 4870. After a careful review of both 4890 and GTX 275 at the time, I went for the 275.

 

[Chiropteran]

Here is the pattern I've seen, which doesn't really line up with the OP's premise.

Radeon 5 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 480 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 6 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 580 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 7 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 680 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER

I don't see domination at all, seems to me that every new release changes the current winner. Since this thread was posted before the release of AMD's 8 series nvidia happens to be in the lead, but that will change in a few months.

 

[Rvenger]

Here is the pattern I've seen, which doesn't really line up with the OP's premise.

Radeon 5 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 480 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 6 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 580 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 7 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 680 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER

I don't see domination at all, seems to me that every new release changes the current winner. Since this thread was posted before the release of AMD's 8 series nvidia happens to be in the lead, but that will change in a few months.

Sounds like a cat and dog chase to me.

 

[amenx]

Here is the pattern I've seen, which doesn't really line up with the OP's premise.

Radeon 6 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 580 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER

Actually Nvidia released the 570/580 before AMD released 6950/6970.

580 : Nov. 9, 2010
570 : Dec. 7, 2010

6950/6970 : Dec. 15, 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_500_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_R600_series

 

[Chiropteran]

Actually Nvidia released the 570/580 before AMD released 6950/6970.

580 : Nov. 9, 2010
570 : Dec. 7, 2010

6950/6970 : Dec. 15, 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_500_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_R600_series

But then the 6990 was released and AMD was tops again, until the 595 or whatever nvidia's answer was.

I guess I got one part wrong but the point remains that it's just a case of the latest company with a major release generally being the current performance champ.

 

[lifeblood]

High end versus mid-range? Personally I think everyone is getting wrapped up too much in semantics. To me the only real question is price vs price. A $200 dollar card competes with other $200 dollar cards, regardless of what its labeled.

People claim AMD lost this round because the 680 is actually a "mid-range" card, not the high-end GK110. That's a totally irreverent point. Until (or if) GK110 is released then 680 is NVs top card, and the 7970GE competes just fine with it at around the same price.

Bang for the buck is the only true comparison.

 

[DaveSimmons]

People claim AMD lost this round because the 680 is actually a "mid-range" card, not the high-end GK110. That's a totally irreverent point. Until (or if) GK110 is released then 680 is NVs top card, and the 7970GE competes just fine with it at around the same price.

Bang for the buck is the only true comparison.

Agreed, though different people will assign more bang / weight to different features.

For example for me the GTX 560 ti was the first good nv 5xx card because the 570 and 580 were too loud, hot and power-hungry for my tastes. For me AMD was #winning until the 560 was released and I was happy with my Radeon 6850.

This generation the roles were reversed, the 79xx were expensive, loud, and power-hungry while the GTX 680 I bought was cheaper, less noisy and used less power.

For other people, 3D, multi-monitors, SLI/Crossfire differences might matter but I only use a single card and single monitor in 2D.

 

[zerogear]

It always seems like nVidia and AMD alternate on the top. And it's always with their dual core/1 card versions.

 

[guskline]

I agree with Chiropteran. The 7970GE and GTX 680 are so close that other component in the system may make the difference.

 

[Creig]

The whole AMD/Nvidia dominance thing has been a complete back and forth tug-of-war for years now. I doubt things will change anytime soon.

 

[MrK6]

Gone are the days of being "on top." Hardware and software are so varied now that unless an application and conditions are specified, it's simple market-speak (sometimes regurgitated as fanboy drivel).

 

[tviceman]

Here is the pattern I've seen, which doesn't really line up with the OP's premise.

Radeon 5 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 480 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 6 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 580 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER
Radeon 7 series released, AMD tops.
time passes AMD winner
Nvidia 680 released, nvidia retakes top.
times passes NVIDIA WINNER

I don't see domination at all, seems to me that every new release changes the current winner. Since this thread was posted before the release of AMD's 8 series nvidia happens to be in the lead, but that will change in a few months.

The gtx580 and gtx570 came out before the hd6970.

 

[Siberian]

It's the same way with their CPUs. Not sure why it's a big deal.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Right now you are right, 7970GE is competing with nv 2nd Tier GTX680 and clearly wining at higher resolutions and at least matching it at low resolutions that don't matter anyway for flagships cards. It's a shame that 2nd tier is all nv is willing to give us for now

for the .16% that use that resolution....yup...almost 1/5 of 1%....

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

 

[chimaxi83]

The whole AMD/Nvidia dominance thing has been a complete back and forth tug-of-war for years now. I doubt things will change anytime soon.

Gone are the days of being "on top." Hardware and software are so varied now that unless an application and conditions are specified, it's simple market-speak (sometimes regurgitated as fanboy drivel).

Too bad the blind fanboys/wannabe financial analysts don't see that lol. Hey guys, I have a highly overclocked CPU/triple SLI system, but power usage is really important to me

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

It really changed with the 2900XT and for the most part nVidia's second tier chip competed with the AMD's flag ship single GPU core. Believe most of it curtailed though based on AMD's decision for their smaller die/sweet spot strategy. It was a decision to create a balanced gaming architecture that provided wonderful price/performance and utilizing a dual GPU sku as their flagship, ultra enthusiast sku. For some time, the strategy was working with AMD actually taking the over-all discrete share away from nVidia.

Strategies change with new management or market conditions and AMD is trying to enter strongly with an architecture that is geared more for GPU compute than the past, and seem to be much more aggressive.

Desire a strong AMD or nVidia -- so they can bang heads, innovate, fight for gamers' dollars by bringing compelling choice, innovative and immersive features, value to the gamer.

I don't understand why gamers fight or bang heads with other gamers but has and probably will continue to be part of forum lore.

 

[WarhammerTX]

And you need to understand we need both companys to fight it out everyday otherwise innovation would cease. We need competition to help progress to the next level.

 

[Wall Street]

I think that nVidia places higher value on that status of having a "halo" product. The GTX 280, GTX 480 and GTX 580 all used chips that were >500 mm2 to ensure the lead, while AMD/ATi historically hasn't make chips that large. That being said, Kepler moved away from the big die strategy and edged out the top spot this generation by removing some compute features, having better launch drivers and cleverly being first to market with Turbo Boost functionality.

 

[GaiaHunter]

If someone said to me "you can pick a GTX670 or a 7970 for free" I would go with a 7970 unless the GTX670 was a really good 3rd party board/cooler and the 7970 was a crappy one.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

"you can pick a GTX670 or a 7970 for free"

I'd go with the 670 because with such little power I'd still have to buy another one anyways as this gens top single cards are just as painful as last if you're running highly intensive games with high res/settings.

This gen didn't get over any bubbles if it required 580 SLI it still requires CF/SLI and AMD's current CF support and past is pretty lackluster as such it's not really an option.

 

[Dark Shroud]

But then the 6990 was released and AMD was tops again, until the 595 or whatever nvidia's answer was.

I guess I got one part wrong but the point remains that it's just a case of the latest company with a major release generally being the current performance champ.

The GTX 595 did not beat the HD 6990. Nvidia actually had to release an updated firmware that scaled back clocks on the card's performance because the cards were burning out.

The GTX 690 is the card that beat the HD 6990.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The GTX 595 did not beat the HD 6990. Nvidia actually had to release an updated firmware that scaled back clocks on the card's performance because the cards were burning out.

The GTX 690 is the card that beat the HD 6990.

I don't know what's funnier, you saying it as if it were a fact, or the fact that you believe what you're saying is true.

590 and 6990 are pretty even performance wise, but the 6990 is the loudest card in the last what, 6+ years?

 

[StrangerGuy]

I don't give a shit to either's top end cards. Their highest point of competition was the ~$150 5850/6870/460s.

 

[Shmee]

I too would take a 7970 over a 670, if free. I would probably take it over a 680 for that matter, with OC in mind.

 

[Gikaseixas]

I too would take a 7970 over a 670, if free. I would probably take it over a 680 for that matter, with OC in mind.

Another vote for the 7970GE.

As for the OP, AMD has been keeping Nvidia honest all these years. They're comparable in various price brackets so that's were you should center your focus on.