People are not interested in who can slap the most GPUs onto one board, they're interested in who designs the best GPU. Anandtech is well aware of the existence of these multi-GPU cards and yet they still give the performance crown to the X1900XTX. Now why do you suppose that is? Use some common sense please.
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
- 5,529
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No, you are not interested in facts. People want the best performing system. Why else would NVIDIA sell millions of SLI boards. Why else would Dell promote a dual SLI system with 4 GPU's. Why else would ATI scramble to duct tape together Crossfire.
Enjoy your ride on the Titanic because it's the fastest ship out there and nothing will change your mind not even the water rising around you.
Wreckage, if it makes you feel any better, the X1900XTX is the fastest card with a single GPU on it.
Why are you bringing in niche cards like that dual-GPU dell? You can debate semantics all you want, but that card has little to no impact on the retail market.
Why are you bringing in niche cards like that dual-GPU dell? You can debate semantics all you want, but that card has little to no impact on the retail market.
Since we're being so nitpicky, why don't we worthlessly argue about something else? What do you define as a board?
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,443
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how many consumers will be able to afford a quad-sli rig? even fewer than those who can afford traditional sli.
just face it - the 1900xt is the fastest single card (single SLI cards still count as SLI), and nvidia will have their response with the G71. until that comes out, we can only wait and see.
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
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Why limit yourself? If I want a fast system, I will run two cpu's, nine gpu's and 12GB of memory. If you are going to argue cost, then go buy an eMachines with intergrated graphics. It's funny how only ATI Dongle boyz think having two cards run well together and giving you the best performance is a bad thing.
We are talking about the high end market that the "average" consumer does not play in. So if you rule out SLI because of that your pretty much rule out any card above $300.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,443
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im not an ati fanboy, im a budget consumer. i run a sempron64 2800+ OC'ed to ~3200+, my mobo was a $30 refurb, i have an x800pro for a vid card (single most expensive part, was a very good deal though and last upgrade i will make for a while).
im not saying that two cards is a bad thing, but 2 cards is obviously an advantage over 1. other than ATI having issues with black&white2, they're at the top overall according to multiple benchmarks. and please dont say "OMG GTX 512 FTW" because 1) they're more rare than duke nukem forever and 2) they cost $700+, which is more expensive than a 1900XTX
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
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I was not trying to label you. But a lot of the "red team" seem to think for some strange reason that running 2 cards is a bad thing. (those were the people I was applying that label to).
If you look at the Tech Report benchmarks Dual GT's had better performance than a XTX and they cost less. So SLI can also be an affordable high end solution.
No one is denying that SLI has benefits. I think one has to take a step out of the video forum and ask themselves "What am I doing here? Why am I wasting my time argueing with others who feel differently? Why do I always have to have the last word? Why cannot I accept the fact that others can do what they want, whether it makes sense to me or not? Who am I trying to convince?" I think if everyone took a step out of their emotionalism, this would be a much better place.
only 9? why limit yourself?
cost is a very good arguement. like the fact that i bought my 1900xt for 562 euro's (too lazy to turn that into USD). i can get the dual asus GT card, for 850 euro's. which is more then likely just a tad faster. and not for long. since that asus card uses custom drivers, official drivers cant support 2 GPUs on a single board. not yet anyway. so their stuck on the 77.77 drivers i belive while ati can continue on developing theirs and increasing performance.
the point of the cost arguement is, where do you draw the line? if i can get a card for 550 bucks, or get a card for 800 bucks which only gives me 2 more fps, i'd say no thanks.
the fact remains, the dual GPU card is a SLI setup. besides the fact it uses the same PCB, it uses 2 GPU's connected via SLI technology so without SLI, this card would not exist. heck nvidia doesnt even support it. therefor, its a SLI setup. and the 1900xt(x) remains the fastest single card setup. i would say the same for nvidia's 7800GTX 512 if ASUS (remember, asus not ati or nvidia) came with a dual GPU 1800xl CF setup.
the point of this whole debate is, which is the fastest single card, and as its been proven, at the time its the 1900xtx. if you wanna debate the fastest setup OVERALL, i'd say a quad G71 dell setup.
cost is a very good arguement. like the fact that i bought my 1900xt for 562 euro's (too lazy to turn that into USD). i can get the dual asus GT card, for 850 euro's. which is more then likely just a tad faster. and not for long. since that asus card uses custom drivers, official drivers cant support 2 GPUs on a single board. not yet anyway. so their stuck on the 77.77 drivers i belive while ati can continue on developing theirs and increasing performance.
the point of the cost arguement is, where do you draw the line? if i can get a card for 550 bucks, or get a card for 800 bucks which only gives me 2 more fps, i'd say no thanks.
the fact remains, the dual GPU card is a SLI setup. besides the fact it uses the same PCB, it uses 2 GPU's connected via SLI technology so without SLI, this card would not exist. heck nvidia doesnt even support it. therefor, its a SLI setup. and the 1900xt(x) remains the fastest single card setup. i would say the same for nvidia's 7800GTX 512 if ASUS (remember, asus not ati or nvidia) came with a dual GPU 1800xl CF setup.
the point of this whole debate is, which is the fastest single card, and as its been proven, at the time its the 1900xtx. if you wanna debate the fastest setup OVERALL, i'd say a quad G71 dell setup.
People always want the best-performing system. What they can actually afford is another question.
They don't cost much more than non-SLI boards at this point. And are you so sure they've sold "millions" of SLI-capable motherboards? Source?
Marketing? You can't even get these things yet.
To have something to compete against SLI? Not having it would make their products look inferior to some easily swayed consumers.
So... a $600+ solution is now labeled as "affordable"?
I'm not gonna argue that SLI/Crossfire don't perform well, and if you have money to burn, they're great. But if you believe that more than a tiny, tiny fraction of even the "enthusiast" market is using them... you're just deluding yourself. Even a single ~$500 video card is well out of reach of the vast majority of gamers.
And can we please drop the "ATI Dongle Boyz"/"red team"/general "fanboy" stuff? Stick with discussing the hardware, not the other posters.
No kidding. Same crap, different day. It was good for a while, then a new GPU got released and one can't stand the other being ahead. What difference does it make what company has the fastest card? What difference does it make to you? Obviously you only care because you're somehow emotionally attached to it, since you probably aren't even going to buy it anyway. Let it be. None of the other forums are anywhere near this bad, not even CPU.
I bought the one I have back in August of 2005. I'm thinking about buying another one, and the more competition there is, the sooner the price will fall to what I can afford right now. Right now it sells for around $400, so it's starting to fall, but I'd like to see it no more then $300 before I'll buy.
Your right ArchAngel777. I tried not to return the flames I got for my comments, and I want to say that I'm sorry to anyone that I may have offended. It definitely wasn't my intention to insult anyone. I just brought up the topic because I felt it might generate some good discussion. I think maybe the title of the thread gave people the wrong idea of what I was getting at.
Ronin
Diamond Member
Ronin
Diamond Member
Couple comments on this:
Yes, it's not available, but they have systems manufactured already (30, to be exact). They're waiting to complete more of the cards themselves before they put it on the market. It's not just about marketing. Dell is trying damn hard to market to the gamer (and they'd be better off if they'd finall stop shoving Intel CPUs into their systems), and the XPS 600/Renegade as well as the XPS Gen2/M170 show that. It's a very viable solution, and pricing won't be much more than current XPS' (unless you through a 3007 in there, and then the price takes quite a hike).
The point is you can't expect x1900CF to have a huge lead over gtx sli when the cpu is the limiting factor.
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
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Well we are discussing high end, so cost is not generally the issue.
I'm too lazy to look it up, although it may have been a NVIDIA press release. Why spend the extra for SLI if you were not at least thinking of using it.
It's still a big vote of confidence for using multi-GPU systems.
Again, that's my point. Dual GPU is a good option to consider over a single card these days.To have something to compete against SLI? Not having it would make their products look inferior to some easily swayed consumers.
That's how much the XTX is, which is the topic of discussionSo... a $600+ solution is now labeled as "affordable"?
Again we are talking about the XTX a $600+ enthusiast card.
And just let them run free? There are several here who fit that label and I feel I am only bringing balance to the force. Feel free to chastise them as well for there use of similar terms.
I don't know about "millions",but they did announce that they have past the million mark for sales of sli mobo's.It was early fall,I'll see if I can find the link.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25003
I guess it was july
This wasn't where I originally read it,but was the first link I found,and usually most sites basically have the same story.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25003
I guess it was july
This wasn't where I originally read it,but was the first link I found,and usually most sites basically have the same story.
That's not really how the thread started.
But if you just want to talk about what is the absolutely fastest thing out there right now overall, it's either a 7800GTX 512MB SLI, or an X1900XTX Crossfire (with the nod probably going to the 7800GTX SLI due to better maturity). No debate there.
Well, I'm too lazy to do your research for you.
The only thing I recall seeing was NVIDIA saying they had produced more than a million SLI-capable chipsets. That does not mean that more than a million SLI-capable motherboards have been sold, and DEFINITELY does not mean that there are a million people out there actually using SLI.
Because people figure "eh, I'll pay $20 more so I can build an uber SLI rig later!" without really thinking it through.
That, and many of the best enthusiast boards have SLI, so if you want a top-notch OCing board, it'll probably have an SLI-capable chipset even if you have no intention of actually using it.
Right now, it's nothing but marketing, since you can't actually get one (and it sounds like supplies will be very limited even once they are available). I have nothing against multi-GPU systems; it's just another option for improving performance.
Again, that's my point. Dual GPU is a good option to consider over a single card these days.To have something to compete against SLI? Not having it would make their products look inferior to some easily swayed consumers.
My point is just that it's not realistic for a huge chunk of the market right now. Anything slower than a 7800GT SLI can be beaten by a single fast card with fewer hassles, and a 7800GT SLI costs in the neighborhood of $600.
When did we specify that we were only talking about the X1900XTX? And IMO, buying the XTX is pretty dumb, since the X1900XT is only a hair slower and only costs $500.
"Fighting fire with fire", so to speak, just makes things worse, and drags the whole forum down. Please don't do it. I'll be sure to call out anyone I see spewing "nVidiot" crap as well.
Using terms like "ATI Dongle Boyz" and insulting ATI supporters as a whole just makes you look like an idiot. Not the way to get people to take you seriously.
They're talking about chipset sales, not motherboards (despite the Inquirer's incredibly misleading title, although by now they probably have sold at least that many boards). It's certainly not enough to say that there are a million+ people out there actually using SLI.
Yeah you are right.The article I originally read said Nvidia has past 1 million sales of sli mobo's.
And to follow up,this doesn't mean 1 million,it doesn't even mean 1000,people are using sli.To go even further,it doesn't even mean an Nvidia card is being used in it.
The only thing you can state as fact ,is that they aren't being used for crossfire.
And this is just speculation,but most people have preferred the nf4 for amd setups.It doesn't guarantee a sale of their video cards though. But as stated before,the sli boards aren't that much more and it does give you the option of going sli.
You can't really read anything into it other than they have done great sales with their chipset.
Now ATI has that option,but I think it will be awhile before they catch nv with crossfire board sales.
And to follow up,this doesn't mean 1 million,it doesn't even mean 1000,people are using sli.To go even further,it doesn't even mean an Nvidia card is being used in it.
The only thing you can state as fact ,is that they aren't being used for crossfire.
And this is just speculation,but most people have preferred the nf4 for amd setups.It doesn't guarantee a sale of their video cards though. But as stated before,the sli boards aren't that much more and it does give you the option of going sli.
You can't really read anything into it other than they have done great sales with their chipset.
Now ATI has that option,but I think it will be awhile before they catch nv with crossfire board sales.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
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GF5 is not the same as GF6. Like I said before the NV4x (GF6) switched to rotated grid and the G71 simply continues. ATi still has the advantage at indentical AA settings possibly because their sample pattern is sparser and more random than nVidia's.
I was responding to your original comment "but they either cannot or will not enable SSAA", which is untrue.
Alright. I could have sworn it was still ordered-grid on the NV4X, but apparently I'm not remembering it correctly.
I meant full-scene SSAA (which NVIDIA has offered for multiple generations now, although it's really not useful on newer titles). It's still only available through Transparency AA -- and even then only on the R5XX.
I'm sorry, I should have been clearer!
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