Why does AT say the X1900's take the performance crown?

[dredd2929]

For single card performance yes, it is the fastest. But as far as pure performance it seems the 7800GTX 512MB SLI rig takes the cake in most of the "max settings" benchmarks (ATI: 3 vs nVidia: 4; I gave BF2 to nVidia b/c it's within 1.9fps, and the nVidia rig is running at 8x AA vs ATI's 6x AA). I was a little surprised by this, considering the amount of time ATI has had to work on their "GeForce 7 ouster..."

I'm not intending this as flamebate, but why do ya'll think this is? The X1900 appears to be WAY faster on paper...

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: dredd2929
For single card performance yes, it is the fastest. But as far as pure performance it seems the 7800GTX 512MB SLI rig takes the cake in most of the "max settings" benchmarks (ATI: 3 vs nVidia: 4; I gave BF2 to nVidia b/c it's within 1.9fps, and the nVidia rig is running at 8x AA vs ATI's 6x AA). I was a little surprised by this, considering the amount of time ATI has had to work on their "GeForce 7 ouster..."

I'm not intending this as flamebate, but why do ya'll think this is? The X1900 appears to be WAY faster on paper...

Read your own post for the answer, X1900 is the fatest single card. I think the reason that 7800GTX 512 are faster has a lot more to do with SLI being a more efficient than the cards themselves being faster.

 

[TSS]

SLI rigs are only bought by a select few who have the money 99% of all computers built and bought still carry a single card solution. so thats why its the fastest. you sed so yourself

besides, go look at the 1900xtx crossfire vs 7800gtx 512 SLI in the fear benchmark, WITH AA (if you run SLI without aa your a idiot. you dont buy that horsepower for nothing.)

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: ayabe
[
Read your own post for the answer, X1900 is the fatest single card.

Right, I definitely know what my post said. What I'm saying is, "performance crown" suggests that ATI's solution is faster is all respects (as it should be). When a customer wants to have the fastest possible performance, they'll go with the one with the "performance crown..."

However, in most of the test scenarios, nVidia's solution is faster when subjected to the most demanding conditions. To me, that suggests a very large asterisk should be placed next to headlines touting ATI as the new heavy-weight champ.

Really though, I don't CARE which one is faster. I'm just curious as to why this is happening. Could be driver immaturity. Or maybe nVidia's architecture is more SLI friendly as you stated.

Any other thoughts?

 

[M0RPH]

In this case, when they are talking about the "performance crown", they are talking about for single cards. It's as simple as that.

 

[dredd2929]

True. I guess I just don't understand why ATI's X1900 crossfire isn't a LOT faster than it is. Hopefully this will be fixed, otherwise it could be another 6 months of nVidia dominating in performance and keeping their top cards rediculously expensive.

 

[M0RPH]

Wow, your logic escapes me. So you think that because SLI is faster than Crossfire, Nvidia will have the luxury of keeping their cards expensive. You realize of course that most people can't afford to buy two video cards? And you realize that people are going to be buying a lot of ATI's 1900 cards because they're faster than anything Nvidia has available to sell? Now tell me again why Nvidia could afford to keep their cards expensive.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
In this case, when they are talking about the "performance crown", they are talking about for single cards. It's as simple as that.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Wow, your logic escapes me. So you think that because SLI is faster than Crossfire, Nvidia will have the luxury of keeping their cards expensive. You realize of course that most people can't afford to buy two video cards? And you realize that people are going to be buying a lot of ATI's 1900 cards because they're faster than anything Nvidia has available to sell? Now tell me again why Nvidia could afford to keep their cards expensive.

Your right. Just change the names of the cards and makers, and your statement works perfectly for last half of 2005 as well. Observe:

Wow, your logic escapes me. So you think that because SLI is faster than Crossfire, ATI will have the luxury of keeping their cards expensive. You realize of course that most people can't afford to buy two video cards? And you realize that people are going to be buying a lot of Nvidia's 7800 cards because they're faster than anything ATI has available to sell? Now tell me again why ATI could afford to keep their cards expensive.

Anyway, I'm just playing. ATI has something like a six week window to sell these X1900XT/XTX/XTXTX. Very good cards, but they didn't do as well as they were hyped to. A bit dissappointing as I wanted it to absolutely destroy anything out there by wide margins. So, ATI will have a six week profit growth, just as Nvidia had about 4 months uncontested in '05 with the 7800's. If I felt the X1900XTX was strong enough to hold off the G71, I would probably buy one. But seeing as it is just ahead of a 512GTX for the most part, I can't buy it.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Wow, your logic escapes me. So you think that because SLI is faster than Crossfire, Nvidia will have the luxury of keeping their cards expensive. You realize of course that most people can't afford to buy two video cards? And you realize that people are going to be buying a lot of ATI's 1900 cards because they're faster than anything Nvidia has available to sell? Now tell me again why Nvidia could afford to keep their cards expensive.

Oh there's no need to get fussy now. Look, all I'm saying is that right now the engineers at nVidia are probably looking at ATI's new offering and saying "that all you got?"

Do you think nVidia has been sitting on their arses for 7 months? How do you think the next nVidia part will perform? So, like I said when NVwhatever comes out it most likely will be the fastest *single* card available. When that happens what will ATI's answer be? Well actually we all just heard the answer with the X1900!! nVidia will take back the "performance crown", and will still be able to keep their cards too freaking expensive. And if you can afford to have two cards, guess which brand people will buy, b/c it's STILL faster, even after ATI's had almost 6 months to come up with something better?

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
A bit dissappointing as I wanted it to absolutely destroy anything out there by wide margins. So, ATI will have a six week profit growth, just as Nvidia had about 4 months uncontested in '05 with the 7800's. If I felt the X1900XTX was strong enough to hold off the G71, I would probably buy one. But seeing as it is just ahead of a 512GTX for the most part, I can't buy it.

Thank you keysplayr2003! My point exactly!

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: dredd2929

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Wow, your logic escapes me. So you think that because SLI is faster than Crossfire, Nvidia will have the luxury of keeping their cards expensive. You realize of course that most people can't afford to buy two video cards? And you realize that people are going to be buying a lot of ATI's 1900 cards because they're faster than anything Nvidia has available to sell? Now tell me again why Nvidia could afford to keep their cards expensive.

Oh there's no need to get fussy now. Look, all I'm saying is that right now the engineers at nVidia are probably looking at ATI's new offering and saying "that all you got?"

Do you think nVidia has been sitting on their arses for 7 months? How do you think the next nVidia part will perform? So, like I said when NVwhatever comes out it most likely will be the fastest *single* card available. When that happens what will ATI's answer be? Well actually we all just heard the answer with the X1900!! nVidia will take back the "performance crown", and will still be able to keep their cards too freaking expensive. And if you can afford to have two cards, guess which brand people will buy, b/c it's STILL faster, even after ATI's had almost 6 months to come up with something better?

No one is forcing you to buy it.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

No one is forcing you to buy it.

That doesn't mean I can't wish there was better competition, which would force prices down faster, instead of the 7800GTX costing ~$500 for almost 6 months.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: dredd2929

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
A bit dissappointing as I wanted it to absolutely destroy anything out there by wide margins. So, ATI will have a six week profit growth, just as Nvidia had about 4 months uncontested in '05 with the 7800's. If I felt the X1900XTX was strong enough to hold off the G71, I would probably buy one. But seeing as it is just ahead of a 512GTX for the most part, I can't buy it.

Thank you keysplayr2003! My point exactly!

This was not your point. Key's is saying that the G71 will more than likely outperform the X1900XT. Your point had to do w/ SLI versus Crossfire. Get your points straight.

The review was about the X1900XT not SLI vs Crossfire, thus it's about a single card. And currently, the X1900XT is the top card. Is that hard to understand?

Also, there isn't a driver that even officially supports this card and when does come out, a single and crossfire results are more than likely to get better.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: dredd2929

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

No one is forcing you to buy it.

That doesn't mean I can't wish there was better competition, which would force prices down faster, instead of the 7800GTX costing ~$500 for almost 6 months.

I smell fanboyism.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Your point had to do w/ SLI versus Crossfire. Get your points straight.

SLI vs Crossfire was my original point, but I expanded upon my point to discuss ayabe's thoughts on this. Hence another point. I now have two points. Points are straight.

The review was about the X1900XT not SLI vs Crossfire, thus it's about a single card. And currently, the X1900XT is the top card. Is that hard to understand?

No, it's pretty easy actually. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Also, there isn't a driver that even officially supports this card and when does come out, a single and crossfire results are more than likely to get better.

Very true.

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: dredd2929

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Your point had to do w/ SLI versus Crossfire. Get your points straight.

SLI vs Crossfire was my original point, but I expanded upon my point to respond to ayabe's reply. Hence another point. I now have two points. Points are straight.

The review was about the X1900XT not SLI vs Crossfire, thus it's about a single card. And currently, the X1900XT is the top card. Is that hard to understand?

No, it's pretty easy actually. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Also, there isn't a driver that even officially supports this card and when does come out, a single and crossfire results are more than likely to get better.

Very true.

agreed ATI will just start making more and more memory controler hacks to make the games faster.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
In this case, when they are talking about the "performance crown", they are talking about for single cards. It's as simple as that.

It's not really that simple. Because the Dual GT is the fastest single card on the planet. At least until the dual GTX from Dell comes out.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

I smell fanboyism.

Err..toward which company?

 

[Munky]

If anyone read the b3d review, you'd see that x1900 CF is cpu-limited in most modern games even at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 16xAF. When you see a performance difference between a single card and dual cards that's only about 20-40%, you'd know that either the driver/profile needs more tweaking or there's not enough graphics load to put the two cards to good use.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: munky
When you see a performance difference between a single card and dual cards that's only about 20-40%, you'd know that either the driver/profile needs more tweaking or there's not enough graphics load to put the two cards to good use.

Good point.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: munky
you'd know that either the driver/profile needs more tweaking

I thought crossfire did not need a profile? That it would just work with any game. :roll:

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: dredd2929
...

When that happens what will ATI's answer be?
...

I assume there is going to be 750MHz(maybe more) XTX.

Think for yourself. Why would ATI come with 750MHz part right now? It doesn't make sense from business point of view. ATI made a decision: 1900XTX and XT are good enough to be recognized as the best right now. When you read reviews it happened. Mission accomplished.
Now they are getting ready for G71. ATI has a small advantage here:
1. They can tweak speed based on what they see from G71.
2. They are working on better drivers for 1900's. If they have them ready prior to G71 they can hold them a few more weeks and release them at the same time as G71.

This is a circle. Nvidia had the same thing going for them the last year.

 

[dredd2929]

Originally posted by: Janooo
This is a circle. Nvidia had the same thing going for them the last year.

I hope you're right. Despite the retarted "fanboy" accusation made against me earlier in the thread, I just want to see more competition than what occured second half of 05.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: munky
you'd know that either the driver/profile needs more tweaking

I thought crossfire did not need a profile? That it would just work with any game. :roll:

Did you also think that about SLI?