Why does America display the date MM/DD/YYYY.

[ForumMaster]

americans have thier own standards for everything. here we also write it as DD/MM/YY.

 

[Caecus Veritas]

as with any "logical" searches and ordering...
you start from larger to smaller

i.e.
address - you need to first know which country, then state or province, city, address then your name ... you don't start searching the other way (although we do write our postal addresses the completely opposite way to emphasize our personal importance in the us)

same thing with time.. you cannot correctly identify or search for a day without first knowing the month... and you can't know where the month belongs without first knowing the year... errr... somthing like that. and so the importance of correctly identifying time goes from YY to MM to DD...

p.s.
for those people saying "we never say or use 7th of january" in the US... you are technically correct. we only happen to use the term or format of "7th day of january, 2006" on ALL legal paperwork...

it's really amazing how culturally induced behavior suddenly becomes the universal logic...

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: yuchai
Using your example "January" is clearly not the most important piece of information. "January" could be January 2008 or 2018 or 2629. I would argue that "2007" is most important because at least we are talking about a finite number of possible days.

Indeed. I can't believe the way some people think.

If someone tells me that they performed a specific action on "the 7th", I ask which month and what year. If they say that they did something on "May 32nd", I'd ask of what year. A date is completely meaningless to me unless it is fully qualified.

 

[LS20]

logical:

yyyy/mm/dd
last name, first name

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Caecus Veritas
address - you need to first know which country, then state or province, city, address then your name ... you don't start searching the other way (although we do write our postal addresses the completely opposite way to emphasize our personal importance in the us)

It's amazing how many people are baffled by the fact that USPS routes "from the bottom up", since country, if applicable, is on the bottom, and then CSZ, and then address, and then name...

 

[AbAbber2k]

lol at this thread

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: yuchai
Using your example "January" is clearly not the most important piece of information. "January" could be January 2008 or 2018 or 2629. I would argue that "2007" is most important because at least we are talking about a finite number of possible days.

Indeed. I can't believe the way some people think.

If someone tells me that they performed a specific action on "the 7th", I ask which month and what year. If they say that they did something on "May 32nd", I'd ask of what year. A date is completely meaningless to me unless it is fully qualified.

If the year is left off, you can generally assume it to be the current, previous, or next year based on context.

For instance:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 128656 Sep 26 2002 file1
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 1931 Oct 25 15:10 file2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 4029 Dec 4 2004 file3

It's clear that that Oct 25 refers to 2006, which is the most recent Oct 25. If it was 2005, it would state 2005. You don't need to be taught this to recognize it - the first time you see file dates listed like that with some including a time and some including a year, the reason is immediately obvious. Likewise, if you receive an invitation for a party on January 28th, you can assume that it is the 28th of this month, not next year.


As far as which is more logical, MM/DD/YYYY or DD/MM/YYYY - neither is more logical, each has a logical basis behind it. One is in ascending order of size, the other matches the order of spoken language in the country it is used.

I prefer YYYY-MM-DD for three reasons:
1. It is easily sortable.
2. It is unambiguous. MM/DD/YYYY and DD/MM/YYYY are both ambiguous unless the day is greater than 12, because both are commonly used. YYYY-DD-MM is not commonly used, so YYYY-MM-DD is unambiguous.
3. It is intuitive. Even if a person is unfamiliar with the date format, it is easy to interpret.

 

[Caecus Veritas]

Originally posted by: mugs

If the year is left off, you can generally assume it to be the current, previous, or next year based on context.

and hence the reason why we've got things like space orbital landers roasting in the atmosphere because someone made a wrong assumption...

Originally posted by: mugs

I prefer YYYY-MM-DD for three reasons:
1. It is easily sortable.
2. It is unambiguous. MM/DD/YYYY and DD/MM/YYYY are both ambiguous unless the day is greater than 12, because both are commonly used. YYYY-DD-MM is not commonly used, so YYYY-MM-DD is unambiguous.
3. It is intuitive. Even if a person is unfamiliar with the date format, it is easy to interpret.

:thumbsup: QFT

 

[cubby1223]

Let's all switch to stardates.

 

[Thraxen]

When writing I often just use the format '8-Jan-07' to avoid all this nonsense. It's basically just one more character when writing the month (compared to the MM format) and virtually no chance of confusion no matter where you are from.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: mugs
Both suck. YYYY-MM-DD (ISO standard date) FTW!

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: mugs
If the year is left off, you can generally assume it to be the current, previous, or next year based on context.

For instance:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 128656 Sep 26 2002 file1
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 1931 Oct 25 15:10 file2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 mugs Group 4029 Dec 4 2004 file3

It's clear that that Oct 25 refers to 2006, which is the most recent Oct 25. If it was 2005, it would state 2005. You don't need to be taught this to recognize it - the first time you see file dates listed like that with some including a time and some including a year, the reason is immediately obvious. Likewise, if you receive an invitation for a party on January 28th, you can assume that it is the 28th of this month, not next year.

Yes, *most* people could generally assume that, but I've learned in the last few years that I should *not* assume that. Too many people simply omit the year, without regard to its value.

While we generally use 01/08/07 at my office, I sent a ton of documents to our finance office today, and I used 2007 JAN 08 on some documents, and 2007-01-08 on some. One of our finance ladies called me and said "Wow, I have less trouble with your department than any other, even your dates are unambiguous. Thanks!". :thumbsup:

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dullard
Because they give you the two important pieces of information that you normally need and in the order you normally need it (month is more signficant thus it belongs first like all other ways of writing numbers; the millions come before thousands, hours come before minutes, etc).

This is January 8th. Bingo, that is all you need. Month then day. Often just the day isn't enough. Thus, you need both.

When a year is necessary, tack on the year at either end.

If you want logic, you wouldn't use ANY of these:
[*]YYYY/MM/DD
[*]YYYY/DD/MM
[*]DD/MM/YYYY
[*]MM/DD/YYYY

They are all illogical. We know there are different local standards around the world. Thus the ONLY logical date format writes out the month in text. Thus use one of the following:
[*]YYYY/Month in text/DD
[*]YYYY/DD/Month in text
[*]DD/Month in text/YYYY
[*]Month in text/DD/YYYY

Then you have logic because no one will ever be confused.

YYYY/MM/DD (or YYYY-MM-DD as it should be written) is not illogical. YYYY-DD-MM is not used, which makes YYYY-MM-DD very clear. The month in text on the other hand is not easily recognized by someone who speaks a different language. Numbers are more universally recognized.

Furthermore, it is an international standard:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html

 

[zinfamous]

WOW...this thread is worth 7 pages? nice...

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
WOW...this thread is worth 7 pages? nice...

4 pages

This thread has actually turned out to be quite interesting. I wasn?t even aware that there was such a standard that had the following notation YYYY-MM-DD (ISO).

After reading various points of view from each sides within this thread, I kind of understand the logic behind this ISO date format.

I am actually surprised at how many Americans either agree with the use, or actually do use the DD-MM-YYYY form, or any of the other formats mentioned for that matter.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: mugs
Furthermore, it is an international standard:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html

From that website:

ISO 8601 is only specifying numeric notations and does not cover dates and times where words are used in the representation. It is not intended as a replacement for language-dependent worded date notations such as ?24. Dezember 2001? (German) or ?February 4, 1995? (US English).

Lets just go with the ISO 8601's own idea that it shouldn't replace the full text month.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: mugs
Furthermore, it is an international standard:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html

From that website:

ISO 8601 is only specifying numeric notations and does not cover dates and times where words are used in the representation. It is not intended as a replacement for language-dependent worded date notations such as ?24. Dezember 2001? (German) or ?February 4, 1995? (US English).

Lets just go with the ISO 8601's own idea that it shouldn't replace the full text month.

"Language-dependent." I suppose if you want to represent dates in a language dependent way, that's fine. But to say that YYYY/MM/DD is illogical (which you did) is just plain stupid. It is not at all illogical. It is more easily interpreted by far more people than writing out the month in the language of your choice.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: mugs
Furthermore, it is an international standard:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html

From that website:

ISO 8601 is only specifying numeric notations and does not cover dates and times where words are used in the representation. It is not intended as a replacement for language-dependent worded date notations such as ?24. Dezember 2001? (German) or ?February 4, 1995? (US English).

Lets just go with the ISO 8601's own idea that it shouldn't replace the full text month.

ISO 8601 does not say that it should not replace "the full text month", it says that it is "not intended as a replacement for language-dependent worded date notations." There is a big difference.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
The American way is more logical. Jan. 7, 2007 not 7 Jan 2007.

It's not more logical, it just more closely mirrors the common vernacular. From a data organization perspective, I'd put the most relevant data first, which would be the day. I would also accept 2007/1/7 as correct, since it more closely follows standard numbering practices. (big to little)

 

[Eos]

I use dd-mm-yy or yyyy for my own stuff. But when I make folders on the PC, it's always yyyy-mm-dd so they list correctly.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: mugs
"Language-dependent." I suppose if you want to represent dates in a language dependent way, that's fine. But to say that YYYY/MM/DD is illogical (which you did) is just plain stupid. It is not at all illogical. It is more easily interpreted by far more people than writing out the month in the language of your choice.

From now on, I'll write YYYY-DD-MM simply to make that ISO standard confusing. Hopefully I can start a trend.

 

[Smartazz]

I had to learn your system before, it took some getting used to, but I can write it our way or your way now.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: mugs
"Language-dependent." I suppose if you want to represent dates in a language dependent way, that's fine. But to say that YYYY/MM/DD is illogical (which you did) is just plain stupid. It is not at all illogical. It is more easily interpreted by far more people than writing out the month in the language of your choice.

From now on, I'll write YYYY-DD-MM simply to make that ISO standard confusing. Hopefully I can start a trend.

Good luck.

 

[Ichigo]

le 8 janvier ALALALALALALAL

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: RichUK
Would you not agree?

Try thinking things through for a few minutes before asking a question.

On paper day month year might make sense

But I and most people say, January 8th 2007 not The 8th of January in the year 2007