0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
you are truely an idiot. its not in question whether he was a person. david koresh is a person. whether david koresh is a prophet or whatever other bs he claimed is NOT a fact. you seem to confuse the two. mohammed was also a REAL person, yet you ignore his religion. get that into your twisted little mind. talk of ignorance. you don't live to be good for its own sake, you live to selfishly save up points to get into some after life. thats about as self serving as it gets really.
This kind of attitude is one deserving of respect unlike those who belittle and insult people because they belong or not belong to something.
Why is this retarded thread still going?
This is how it is going so far.
Subjective argument.
Subjective counter-argument.
Insults and more subjective argument.
Insult retort and more subjective argument.
This is how it is going so far.
Subjective argument.
Subjective counter-argument.
Insults and more subjective argument.
Insult retort and more subjective argument.
If this were a why do blacks always, or why do women always, or why do gays need to whatever... it would have been locked 8 pages ago. I have no idea why this wasn't locked then.
religion is a source of relief for people who can't handle the world if they need and excsuse for something god is testing you and if you get something got gave it to you thereby solidifying the belief that there is a god. Religion is a source of relief for some people but for the rest of the world it's a headache with a donations basket
DO YOU REALLY THINK CHRISTAINS ARE SELF SERVING?????!
how much money do you give to charity?
have you ever worked in a soup kitchen?
POINTS?? YOUR JOKING
all you need is to believe and accept it as truth and you get into heaven! you dont even know anything your talking like a real idiot talk to me about your vast knowlege about muhammad and his "religion"
Muhammad never died for ANYbody. i think that dieing for someone is PRETTY UN-SELFISH
arguing with you is definitely not worth it for me
your completely ignoring all my points and attacking the most unimportant aspects of the conversation.
lik ei said before, educate yourself, then you can have the right to talk anout the subject matter
lik ei said before, educate yourself, then you can have the right to talk anout the subject matter
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
1) Ok, well as you've read the Bible, the Jews were God's chosen people. His original plan before sending down Jesus was to use the nation as Israel as sort of a priesthood for all the other nations. Israel would be an example to the other nations and shows the power of God and his love. <-- Simplified, of course. But the practices that the Jews followed were the ways to enter Heaven. However, as many of us know, the Jews consistently chose to disobey God and sin and fall away from him, then after getting shafted, call out for help, and so on and so forth. It was a cycle that repeated endlessly, and God knew that it would not work very well. I dont pretend to be a biblical scholar, so if I'm wrong about some facts, then correct me.
Also, people even after Jesus was sent to be our Savior have also gone to Hell according to the Christian belief.
2) Umm.... they were created? Some people believe that the 7 days, aren't really days, but 7 different periods of time when the world was created. That sort of answers your question, but this seems insignificant compared to the magnitude of your other two questions.
3) UMMMMM... Please try and understand what we claim as Christians. We don't claim that we're "better than anyone else." In fact, you may be better person than me. However, in God's eyes, we're all screwed up people, and even if you're 10x better than me, 10/Infinity is still 0, just as 1/Infinity is. The main difference according to our belief is that I accept God's gift of grace and you don't. This means that I am saved and you are not. This does not mean that I am better than you (I answered the last phrase first because it sort of bothered me)
Also, God gives people the choice to worship him or not. That is the beauty of it all. After all, if everyone was Christian because they had to be, what kind of relationship would that be with God?? A non-existant one. Furthermore, this means that with free will, we can worship different religions and still be "God's children" much like a child disobeying his parents.
Also, according to our religion, homosexuality is a sin. Some choose to discriminate, but I try not to. Rather, to me, and according to the Bible, all sins are sins. I treat them equally, and even though they openly sin, I openly sin too in other ways, i.e. lust, greed, etc. Gay people are no worse than people who lie or gossip often. Obviously, as we've seen, others are not so forgiving, but oh well, that is their choice. You must understand, that as Christians, we don't claim to be perfect, in fact, we accept we are sinners and that is why we need Christ to get to heaven. We can be bigger bigots and idiots, but many of us try to live our lives wholefully to the best of our ability. I try. That is all.
Please don't let this monster of a post go to waste and acknowledge you read it Ausm
I'm not Ausm, but...
1. You didn't really answer his question. God sent a savior to teach the people, so it's only natural that, if they ignored those teachings, they would then wind up in Hell. But what about before the savior came? How could God expect people to know what to do before He sent them a savior? The answer, of course, is that they knew what they were supposed to do, savior or no. What with the Ten Commandments and the Torah and all. The savior, in that sense, would serve as more of a reminder to the people.
2. "Some people believe". Not a very solid response, including a not very solid theory. Seems like you're grasping at straws.
3. First of all, you claim you are saved. But only God can judge that. OMG PWNED! And still, then, if God is the only one that decides, who are you to look down on gays? If we are all sinners, you have no right to discriminate between anybody. You may try not to discriminate, but you can't deny that the majority of Christians, they being the majority of the people in America, do discriminate.
As to your fourth point, many people aren't given the choice you speak of. Although no one is required by law to be a Christian, children growing up in a religious family are very often forced to conform. There is a large amount of pressure there. Children aren't just brought up, and allowed to look at Christianity from an objective viewpoint, and then allowed to decide whether to believe. This is the case in probably 90% of Christians who are living today. Even the Amish impress religion on their kids, only to tell them at 18 that they can leave if they want to. Most stay, because, for one of several reasons, they are already believers.
By the way, I don't believe in any of this religious idiocy.
Edit: Changed a 'the' to a 'this'.
1) I'm sure I answered his 1st question. You say:
How could God expect people to know what to do before He sent them a savior? The answer, of course, is that they knew what they were supposed to do, savior or no. What with the Ten Commandments and the Torah and all. The savior, in that sense, would serve as more of a reminder to the people.
Which I talk about in my first post, about how Israel would deliver the message to the other nations... If you don't believe I answer it, then please elaborate a bit more.
2) By some, I mean those who take the bible literally, word for word...
3) Well, since God says that those who accept his gift of grace, Jesus Christ, will be saved, and I ahve accepted that gift, then I have fulfilled his requirement and therefore saved. OMG PWNED :roll:. Where do I ever say that I look down on gays??
Yes, I will concede that I have no right as a sinner to discriminate, but inevitably, I still do. It is a sin. And I am a sinner. I CONCEDE THAT. Another reason why I need God's gift of grace. Even if other people discriminate, that IS a bad thing, as I've conceded. Many of us unknowningly sin, blinded by our own foolishness. In fact, Christians can be bigger idiots than non-Christians, but they, according to our religion, will be saved regardless of works. Your final point: Christians will invariably fall from God through doubts and experiences that cause them to lose faith, including through discussions with friends and other people on the internet, such as this one. Of course, there are worse places like P&N
. I know that many of my friends are "Christian," but claim that they don't really believe in that bullshit. No matter how much your parents push you, religion is one of those things that you really only believe in if you really truly believe in it (Unless you are a fvcking moron and follow your parents blindly, which is very unfortunate and happens 0% of the time with the teens I know). Those who are believers that I know have been through many trials and the like. There is also something called a confirmation, which is to confirm your faith. Many don't choose to take this path, and many do, as it's a baptism in which you alone take that step. Infant baptism don't count, because as you pointed out, we really had no choice.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
Kogase: Here is an example of why just because parents push you to go to church doesn't necessarily mean that you will believe it.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
Think about it, the Jewish religion was around the same time as the Egyptian religion, and still hasn't been thrown out...
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
What do you mean, "the rest of the world"? 95% of the world's population believes in some form of religion and in God (by whatever name).
And where do you derive your sense of superiority, that you think you handle the world so perfectly without God? Or that you are so mighty that you think of faith as a crutch for the weak? What a pompous prick you are!
edit: Now that I think about it, I really don't know why I posted in this thread. The anti-religious nuts are either bitter losers or teenage angsters full of prejudice without a brain. Pretty sad, but such is AT. Not one of them can ever claim to be open-minded or tolerant to me again.
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
1) Ok, well as you've read the Bible, the Jews were God's chosen people. His original plan before sending down Jesus was to use the nation as Israel as sort of a priesthood for all the other nations. Israel would be an example to the other nations and shows the power of God and his love. <-- Simplified, of course. But the practices that the Jews followed were the ways to enter Heaven. However, as many of us know, the Jews consistently chose to disobey God and sin and fall away from him, then after getting shafted, call out for help, and so on and so forth. It was a cycle that repeated endlessly, and God knew that it would not work very well. I dont pretend to be a biblical scholar, so if I'm wrong about some facts, then correct me.
Also, people even after Jesus was sent to be our Savior have also gone to Hell according to the Christian belief.
2) Umm.... they were created? Some people believe that the 7 days, aren't really days, but 7 different periods of time when the world was created. That sort of answers your question, but this seems insignificant compared to the magnitude of your other two questions.
3) UMMMMM... Please try and understand what we claim as Christians. We don't claim that we're "better than anyone else." In fact, you may be better person than me. However, in God's eyes, we're all screwed up people, and even if you're 10x better than me, 10/Infinity is still 0, just as 1/Infinity is. The main difference according to our belief is that I accept God's gift of grace and you don't. This means that I am saved and you are not. This does not mean that I am better than you (I answered the last phrase first because it sort of bothered me
Also, God gives people the choice to worship him or not. That is the beauty of it all. After all, if everyone was Christian because they had to be, what kind of relationship would that be with God?? A non-existant one. Furthermore, this means that with free will, we can worship different religions and still be "God's children" much like a child disobeying his parents.
Also, according to our religion, homosexuality is a sin. Some choose to discriminate, but I try not to. Rather, to me, and according to the Bible, all sins are sins. I treat them equally, and even though they openly sin, I openly sin too in other ways, i.e. lust, greed, etc. Gay people are no worse than people who lie or gossip often. Obviously, as we've seen, others are not so forgiving, but oh well, that is their choice. You must understand, that as Christians, we don't claim to be perfect, in fact, we accept we are sinners and that is why we need Christ to get to heaven. We can be bigger bigots and idiots, but many of us try to live our lives wholefully to the best of our ability. I try. That is all.
Please don't let this monster of a post go to waste and acknowledge you read it Ausm
I'm not Ausm, but...
1. You didn't really answer his question. God sent a savior to teach the people, so it's only natural that, if they ignored those teachings, they would then wind up in Hell. But what about before the savior came? How could God expect people to know what to do before He sent them a savior? The answer, of course, is that they knew what they were supposed to do, savior or no. What with the Ten Commandments and the Torah and all. The savior, in that sense, would serve as more of a reminder to the people.
2. "Some people believe". Not a very solid response, including a not very solid theory. Seems like you're grasping at straws.
3. First of all, you claim you are saved. But only God can judge that. OMG PWNED! And still, then, if God is the only one that decides, who are you to look down on gays? If we are all sinners, you have no right to discriminate between anybody. You may try not to discriminate, but you can't deny that the majority of Christians, they being the majority of the people in America, do discriminate.
As to your fourth point, many people aren't given the choice you speak of. Although no one is required by law to be a Christian, children growing up in a religious family are very often forced to conform. There is a large amount of pressure there. Children aren't just brought up, and allowed to look at Christianity from an objective viewpoint, and then allowed to decide whether to believe. This is the case in probably 90% of Christians who are living today. Even the Amish impress religion on their kids, only to tell them at 18 that they can leave if they want to. Most stay, because, for one of several reasons, they are already believers.
By the way, I don't believe in any of this religious idiocy.
Edit: Changed a 'the' to a 'this'.
1) I'm sure I answered his 1st question. You say:
How could God expect people to know what to do before He sent them a savior? The answer, of course, is that they knew what they were supposed to do, savior or no. What with the Ten Commandments and the Torah and all. The savior, in that sense, would serve as more of a reminder to the people.
Which I talk about in my first post, about how Israel would deliver the message to the other nations... If you don't believe I answer it, then please elaborate a bit more.
2) By some, I mean those who take the bible literally, word for word...
3) Well, since God says that those who accept his gift of grace, Jesus Christ, will be saved, and I ahve accepted that gift, then I have fulfilled his requirement and therefore saved. OMG PWNED :roll:. Where do I ever say that I look down on gays??
Your final point: Christians will invariably fall from God through doubts and experiences that cause them to lose faith, including through discussions with friends and other people on the internet, such as this one. Of course, there are worse places like P&N
1. I still don't think you answered his question.
2. I'm too tired to continue on this. It's too stupid.
3. Who are you to judge whether you have actually accepted it in a manner which is satisfactory to God? OMG DOUBLE PWNED! I say later in my rebutal that "You may try not to discriminate". I probably should have italicized the 'you' to make it more clear.
4. Teens don't follow their parents word for word, that's true. That's why indoctrination takes place at a much younger age, when children are much more impressionable.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
of course its self serving, if your reason for doing good is based on reward, then its self serving. don't play games. its rather pathetic.
as for believing something to get into heaven, thats just more evidence of how pathetic the foundation of your belief is. simple self serving...and perhaps a dash of fear of death is what your belief is based on. not much more. stop thinking and here's your reward! it has no proof but well.. if you've stopped thinking you don't need proof! convenient! nice to see how dismissive you are of another religion too. as for dying for someone...being on death row because of your actions...that happens to LOTS of people and is proof of nothing besides that they died for THEIR ACTIONS and nothing more. in fact... i could say with just as much authority that david koresh died for you, why don't you believe in his divinity? he DIED for YOU!! how ungrateful of you to not believe...sigh..i feel sorry for you.
based on your disgusting beliefs a man who is many times better then you in life but is not of your religion will denied heaven. while a condemned murderer who "accepts jesus into his heart on his death bed" will go to heaven. rather disgusting god that would allow that.
Megatomic
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 20,127
- 6
- 81
I feel the same way Vic. I am done with this thread after this post. And I will make sure to bring up the intolerance, arrogance, and hostile nature the atheists in this thread exhibited every time I see them demanding or expecting respect and tolerance from others regarding issues they feel positive about.
To all the Christians in this thread. Do you realize that MichaelD won? I'm not saying he is right. I find he is a complete d!ckhead for having done this and have lost a lot of respect for him because of it. He made this thread as major flamebait and to get a reaction and he got what he wanted.
I'm almost tempted to make a paraody of this thread, but what would be the point? I'm not as much of an asshole as MichaelD.
I'm almost tempted to make a paraody of this thread, but what would be the point? I'm not as much of an asshole as MichaelD.
WTF there are no anti-religious nuts. How can you can be tolerant towards a disease. Being tolerant towards Xtianity, Islam, ect is like being tolerant towards the flu.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
lol you are so full of sh*t its amazing. i only had to look one page back for an example of your "intolerance"
Again, whatever. Arguing with a witness is like arguing with an idiot: they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. You are convinced that you are the only true believers when in fact the rest of Christendom (and the world for that matter) regards your group as a cult. But you are used to hearing that, you wear that fact as a badge of honor. It's more like a scarlet letter...
And sadly, you have ruined your witness here. MrChad has quoted you in some very unChristianlike situations. Sorry man.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2004
- 10,491
- 22
- 81
1. well, I did say what God's plan was to save us all before Christ, which was the question... what happened to all those people before Christ...
2. Bleh.
3. Who am I to judge?? Because that's what is written in his Word... it's pretty clear that you are saved if you accept or not. I don't see the middle ground that would create a gray area...
While I may not discriminate, and others do, you still concede that according to our religion, it is not works that matter and regardless of how good of a person you are, as long as you accept Christ, you will be saved. Even if you win that many Christians discriminate for some things, I don't see where you're going with this...
4. And yet... somehow they break free. The bottom line is, once you go out into the real world, you can make your own choices, and religion happens to be one of those choices you are free to make.
4.
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