Incredible, this is exactly what I was just thinking.
It's a good idea, but only because of the defective policy of supporting poor people, within which birthing only produces more people that have to be supported. Forced abortion is a bad solution for bad policy. The wrong solution to a problem that doesn't have to exist.
Forced abortion is certainly a human rights violation, but if we get rid of chronic unemployment benefits, their children would no longer be a government burden but their own.
I believe in absolute liberty, but with liberty must come sovereignty. Liberty with dependency is just abuse of public resources.
It takes a special person to ask a complex socio-economic question in such a mind-numbingly simpleton manner.
There is also the requirement of a hoard of badass "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" fools to blindly follow along. (yes I understand everyone on thie forum has done everything for themselves, even breast fed themselves).
I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but insisting the world will work on purely selfish ideals is such a ignorant elitest ideal it makes me wonder.
There is also the requirement of a hoard of badass "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" fools to blindly follow along. (yes I understand everyone on thie forum has done everything for themselves, even breast fed themselves).
I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but insisting the world will work on purely selfish ideals is such a ignorant elitest ideal it makes me wonder.
If you think that all people who used welfare are unintelligent, lazy etc.. then you obviously don't consider many factors like luck, etc.
There have been many people who were dirt-poor when they were growing up and later on contributed a lot to society.
There have been many people who were dirt-poor when they were growing up and later on contributed a lot to society.
zanejohnson
Diamond Member
- Nov 29, 2002
- 7,054
- 17
- 81
these programs are great for the people who use them how they are meant to be used. there is no way we could have payed for my daughters birth without medicaid, that however is the only "welfare" program we have ever used.
There's nothing more selfish than persistent welfare for capable workers, so I agree.
It doesn't take much luck to get a job at Wendy's. Shitty excuse.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
This answer is easy. Because you don't get to pick and choose where your tax dollars are spent. I'd opt out of quite a few "programs" myself if I could. It's better to shore these programs up than to have all these people roaming the streets trying to survive. That would become involuntarily a much bigger problem imo.
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
we do not need them
people just do not want to accept the consequences otherwise
charity should be voluntary, not mandatory
people just do not want to accept the consequences otherwise
charity should be voluntary, not mandatory
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
When my father became a deadbeat and left my family, my mom and her two kids were left with nothing.
Luckily she was able to receive welfare and foodstamps so she can help provided a minimal shelter and nourishment for us while she worked a minimum wage job on the side and went to school to get a nursing license.
Two years after the crutches, was able to get her nursing license. Now she makes three quarters to six figures.
Not everyone is fortunate to be able to fend for themselves all the time. Many of these people make up the backbone of our workforce. While it's true that there are many that abuse these programs, they are still very essential to a well functioning society.
Liberal or not, it's a rational essential to anyone with an open mind.
Luckily she was able to receive welfare and foodstamps so she can help provided a minimal shelter and nourishment for us while she worked a minimum wage job on the side and went to school to get a nursing license.
Two years after the crutches, was able to get her nursing license. Now she makes three quarters to six figures.
Not everyone is fortunate to be able to fend for themselves all the time. Many of these people make up the backbone of our workforce. While it's true that there are many that abuse these programs, they are still very essential to a well functioning society.
Liberal or not, it's a rational essential to anyone with an open mind.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
Nano calling someone stupid is like the Pope making fun of people with funny hats. :roll:
The OP might as well have gone hunting once and shot a squirrel, then decided to declare that supermarkets are completely pointless, because he's now "self-sufficient." Or manged to accidentally feel up a lady on the bus and then rally against marriage as being overkill.
Pardon me if I don't feel bad from your "insults." If you can't see that the OP is merely arguing against slight degrees of self-sufficiency, yet using absolutes to support his argument, then I'd suggest you wait to try to respond to threads until you've moved on to big-boy pants.
Typical elementary response. Unfortunately for close-minded people such as yourself, America is not a Communist state. We are allowed to express opinions and even vote people into power (in theory, anyway) that support our beliefs. Heaven forbid anyone disagree with how America is run currently, because we all know there is absolutely no room for improvement or discussion. Perhaps one day people will be in power that eliminate (or vastly overhaul) these failed liberal systems, and those who are so supportive of them (such as yourself apparently) will move out.
Interesting post, but the difference in what you are describing and what the OP is questioning, is that in your scenario, everyone is contributing to society (just in different ways), and in the OP's there are people who do not contribute at all and leech off every subsidized program available.
The problem has nothing to do with the programs themselves -- it is both their implementation and the mentality of the people that abuse them. Have you ever seen some of these state's Workers' Compensation programs? Another failed system.
These programs aim to temporarily assist those who are "in need" until they can improve their social condition. The problem is, for those who are less motivated, less educated, or less capable, it becomes a way of life. The same programs that sought to assist these people end up enabling them -- enabling them to continue in a state of decadence.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
If you assume the OP's point was less about the programs themselves, but more about his "involuntary funding of them," I think that opens up another huge can of worms.
What about the peace-nik hippie who's taxes are using for Defense Contracts? The greedy, selfish bastard who's taxes are used for charity and aid? The racist who's money is used for race-awareness and race-targeted assistance?
You don't get to pick-n-choose exactly where your tax dollars are spent, other than through voting for representatives who share your priorities.
You have to face it, there are programs designed to help society as a whole, and they may seem wasteful at times, but the intent is clear. For society, having a large segment of the populace being uneducated, unemployed, homeless, sick and starving is bad for the whole. You can argue we still have such, but that doesn't change the point that we should at least *try* to prevent it.
People seem to think that Hitler held the patent on eugenics programs, but in the 1920-1950s, the better part of the world was enamored with the idea of "cleansing." Even the great democracy of America had its hand in some very scary actions - locking up children deemed "slow-witted" or simply poor in secluded institutions, in an attempt to have only the intelligent and affluent breeding our future societies.
And that wasn't *that* long ago. I'd like to think that we've become a bit more mature and conscious as a society, realizing that as a rich and successful nation, there's no reason why we should have 3rd-world-esque conditions in parts of it. Children don't deserve to suffer, starve, or die, simply because their parents are either disabled, feeble-minded, or even just fucking lazy.
We're better than that. I hope.
waffleironhead
Diamond Member
- Aug 10, 2005
- 7,061
- 569
- 136
Yet another icebergslim throw some gas on the floor, light the fire, fan the flames, and run for the door thread.
What about a billionaire that lives off of their investments? They would pay only 15% long term capital gains tax.
Fuck it all....let's go back to medieval times....an eye for an eye I say! If you're not a king or royalty in general you can be a peasant at my feet whilst I partake of my mead, mutton and wenches!!!!!
I'd like to know how old the OP is - outta curiosity. Also, I'd like to know
which country ^^ is. Considering to many third world implies things such as poverty and starving.
This is one of those situations in which we pay money in order to help out those that are less fortunate and this most often comes down to children. It's not a child's fault that he or she was born into poverty. Yes, these systems can be abused but I would much prefer to have some abusers covered than remove the help from those who really need it.
Oh, did the OP get a public education? Watch any public TV? Benefit from the other vast social benefits afforded us by the governments social programs?
which country ^^ is. Considering to many third world implies things such as poverty and starving.
This is one of those situations in which we pay money in order to help out those that are less fortunate and this most often comes down to children. It's not a child's fault that he or she was born into poverty. Yes, these systems can be abused but I would much prefer to have some abusers covered than remove the help from those who really need it.
Oh, did the OP get a public education? Watch any public TV? Benefit from the other vast social benefits afforded us by the governments social programs?
Why is a consumption tax "fair" and an income tax is not? Who determines that? Are you, OP, the judge of tax fairness?
I dare say all taxes are unfair, because they take my money based on some arbitrary system and redistribute it to fund programs I want nothing to do with.
But hey, some programs I do use, such as public roads and schools. And I'll bet somewhere someone is bitching about having to pay for that.
Say what you want. I don't envy welfare recipients.
I dare say all taxes are unfair, because they take my money based on some arbitrary system and redistribute it to fund programs I want nothing to do with.
But hey, some programs I do use, such as public roads and schools. And I'll bet somewhere someone is bitching about having to pay for that.
Say what you want. I don't envy welfare recipients.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 384
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter