I find it funny to hear people ranting about social systems in place here, and how they ruin America. Please explain how the countries with the most thorough and pervasive social programs in the world (Scandinavia) also happen to have the highest living standards in the world? It really fucked that place up, yesiree.
daniel1113
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2003
- 6,448
- 0
- 0
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
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Yes. That's exactly what I meant by saying we need to pay taxes to maintain order.
Can I hire you to do my talking for me?
Do you work by direct neural connection?
What's your rate?
I agree. Just remove their support. The people on the programs might flounder for a while, but just like how little kids learn that they won't get what they want by throwing a tantrum (assuming their parents have a backbone), they'll eventually learn to support themselves.
I have an anecdote that just really pissed me off. My family decided to donate food to a needy family for thanksgiving. We gave them a turkey and all the stuff needed for a yummy thanksgiving dinner. We went to the house ourselves to drop the food off. When we stepped inside, there were 2 people from the family home; the mother and the daughter. They were both overweight and sitting on the couch watching their fucking big screen tv. Now my family is fairly well off; we have 2 houses, 2 boats, 2 jet skis, dad drives a mercedes, mother drives an audi, blah blah blah. And we don't even have a big screen TV (at the time).
The family we donated the food to in no way needed the support. FFS, sell the damn big screen and stop eating so much.
Trial by ordeal. If you drowned, innocent, God accepted your soul. If you floated , God rejected you and judged you guilty, then you got tortured to death. Plus all your worldly goods confiscated, your house burned down, etc.
bull fucking shit. I'm where I am because my grandparents taught my father self reliance and in turn, he taught me the same thing. god has nothing to do with it.
Wow, that went right over your head. Someone else could've been born in your position while you were born to some drugged out ho in the ghetto. You won the birth canal lottery to have the grandpa and father you did. Not all are so lucky.
How else would politicians get the votes? If these programs were illegal, we wouldn't be the socialist country we are today.
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
because we r a great nation. and we should provide a minimal safety net for our citizens in hard times.
thats the theory.
here's reality:
my tax $ is bailing out the rich (bear sterns anyone?)
and going to substidize those that bought too much house and cant pay off their $2500/month interest only mortgages :|
Ahh yes...."into a river with a millstone tied to his neck, and when he had fallen into the waters he was long supported on the surface by a divine miracle, and the waters did not suck him down since the weight of crime did not press upon him."
-wikipedia
so you are my running mate?
Edit: Both of our examples were on the site
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
Wow, I'm a Libertarian, but even I see your argument as petty and weak.
By these sames standards, I assume you also consider it unfair that you might pay for health insurance when you're in good shape, car insurance when you've never had a wreck, public roads when you walk every where, schools when you have no kids, police protection when you live in a low-crime neighborhood, etc.
Here's a bit of a secret I'll let you in on. The days of being 100% self-sufficient are over. Humans realized long ago that societies are better for individuals. That way you don't have to spend every waking moment of your existence worrying about growing your own food, pumping your own water, teaching you own kids, protecting your belongings, performing your own medical care, creating your own forms of entertainment, writing you own books, birthing your own babies, etc.
In a society, you have people who can specialize and contribute in different ways to help other members. You can also have better things by pooling resources. And as long as you have that, you are going to have some that contribute more/less than others. It unavoidable. The best you can do it mitigate it as much as is reasonable and still benefit society, and thus individuals.
If this bothers you, feel free to move into the woods and live off the land. But don't come bumming around civilization when you need a tooth pulled or a wound stitched. I mean, why should people more learned/skilled offer to help you, the less fortunate?
By these sames standards, I assume you also consider it unfair that you might pay for health insurance when you're in good shape, car insurance when you've never had a wreck, public roads when you walk every where, schools when you have no kids, police protection when you live in a low-crime neighborhood, etc.
Here's a bit of a secret I'll let you in on. The days of being 100% self-sufficient are over. Humans realized long ago that societies are better for individuals. That way you don't have to spend every waking moment of your existence worrying about growing your own food, pumping your own water, teaching you own kids, protecting your belongings, performing your own medical care, creating your own forms of entertainment, writing you own books, birthing your own babies, etc.
In a society, you have people who can specialize and contribute in different ways to help other members. You can also have better things by pooling resources. And as long as you have that, you are going to have some that contribute more/less than others. It unavoidable. The best you can do it mitigate it as much as is reasonable and still benefit society, and thus individuals.
If this bothers you, feel free to move into the woods and live off the land. But don't come bumming around civilization when you need a tooth pulled or a wound stitched. I mean, why should people more learned/skilled offer to help you, the less fortunate?
I'm not against assisting people with difficult times, but I am against assisting them to a point where they no longer feel the need to work. Welfare, 'food stamps' and unemployment are over generous.
Replace welfare and unemployment with very basic community living facilities and replace 'food stamps' with 'rice and yesterday's bread' stamps. Now you're being civilized without being unreasonably generous.
While I was reading this my thought was, who can possibly be this stupid. Sure enough it's you, always setting the bar.
He's against socialism, not economics. On the contrary, devoted capitalism is about as monetary as you can get. I don't expect you to understand any of this, but I wouldn't forgive myself if I didn't at least try.
Replace welfare and unemployment with very basic community living facilities and replace 'food stamps' with 'rice and yesterday's bread' stamps. Now you're being civilized without being unreasonably generous.
While I was reading this my thought was, who can possibly be this stupid. Sure enough it's you, always setting the bar.
He's against socialism, not economics. On the contrary, devoted capitalism is about as monetary as you can get. I don't expect you to understand any of this, but I wouldn't forgive myself if I didn't at least try.
They did that in France once, the rich not paying attention to the poor.
The poor gathered together and cut off the heads of all the rich people.
Consider these programs you hate so much, as the price to keep your head on your shoulders.
NikolaeVarius
Lifer
- Oct 25, 2006
- 11,036
- 11
- 91
Screw it. Do what Japan does. No welfare unless you prove that you have taken every single step to get a job and hold it, but failed
You calling him stupid? Oh the iron E.
I laugh when I hear people talk about how self-sufficient they are, and how they don't think people should have welfare or MedicAid or <insert random social program>. Newsflash guys, you aren't anywhere near as self-sufficient as you think. As cK is pointing out, there is a whole massive development and construct called "society" that provides you with a safe haven and a variety of systems for surviving within the shelter of its protection. You think that because you work at a job you are practicing self-sufficiency and are an independent human being? Don't kid yourself. Plucked out of your comfortable society and placed in the wild to practice true self-sufficiency you probably wouldn't last a week. You all accept some sort of welfare, you just choose not to call it that.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,829
- 3
- 0
Why should I have to pay for highways that allow suburbanites to waste natural resources commuting 100 miles a day, or for a military that doesn't personally protect me, or for a coast guard that protects me from harmless Cuban kids on rafts?
404 Logic not found.
The OP needs to go back to school and learn a sense of perspective, if that is learnable.
404 Logic not found.
The OP needs to go back to school and learn a sense of perspective, if that is learnable.
The argument is we'd have tons more violence if we instituted something like this.
I don't know if I buy it. If gun ownership also increased, then people would be more likely to get a job than continually raid houses (because they'd eventually get killed).
Entitlements exist to garner votes.
Vote Libertarian.
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