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Why do we need these programs ...

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I find it funny to hear people ranting about social systems in place here, and how they ruin America. Please explain how the countries with the most thorough and pervasive social programs in the world (Scandinavia) also happen to have the highest living standards in the world? It really fucked that place up, yesiree.
 
Originally posted by: TruePaige
If you don't like a country where you have to pay for these things, move out.
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"Yeah, if you don't like socialism, get out of America, asshole!" :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Mashed Potato
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Because if almost everyone who fell on hard times was allowed to spiral deeper and deeper into poverty you'd have an immense increase in crime that would directly affect you. In order to stop this massive increase in crime the goverment would have to massively expand police forces and you'd have to pay more taxes to get it done.
Click to expand...

Less police, harsher punishment. We should bring back all the crazy shit........public hangings.....stoning mother fuc*ers......lets get some fear back in the public eye.....I'm talkin' Lex Talionis. You screw the system....everyone in the neighborhood gets a stone. In the past if you were accused of a crime they would string a rock to your feet and throw you in a pond....if you lived...you were innocent.....now that is some serious shit!

As stated before in this thread welfare is a great system gone bad. Physically or mentally unable to work - welfare. Otherwise get a job.....or get stoned.



Mashed Potato '08


I need a running mate if anyone is interested.....
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I thought if you lived you were guilty, and then hanged.
 
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: TruePaige
If you don't like a country where you have to pay for these things, move out.
Click to expand...

"Yeah, if you don't like socialism, get out of America, asshole!" :roll:
Click to expand...

Yes. That's exactly what I meant by saying we need to pay taxes to maintain order.

Can I hire you to do my talking for me?

Do you work by direct neural connection?

What's your rate?
 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: daniel1113
We don't need any of these programs. There is no reason to believe that individuals in need would not be taken care of by private contributions (i.e., real charity) if the government stopped funding such programs.
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cool I'm not insane.
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I agree. Just remove their support. The people on the programs might flounder for a while, but just like how little kids learn that they won't get what they want by throwing a tantrum (assuming their parents have a backbone), they'll eventually learn to support themselves.

I have an anecdote that just really pissed me off. My family decided to donate food to a needy family for thanksgiving. We gave them a turkey and all the stuff needed for a yummy thanksgiving dinner. We went to the house ourselves to drop the food off. When we stepped inside, there were 2 people from the family home; the mother and the daughter. They were both overweight and sitting on the couch watching their fucking big screen tv. Now my family is fairly well off; we have 2 houses, 2 boats, 2 jet skis, dad drives a mercedes, mother drives an audi, blah blah blah. And we don't even have a big screen TV (at the time).

The family we donated the food to in no way needed the support. FFS, sell the damn big screen and stop eating so much.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: Mashed Potato
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Because if almost everyone who fell on hard times was allowed to spiral deeper and deeper into poverty you'd have an immense increase in crime that would directly affect you. In order to stop this massive increase in crime the goverment would have to massively expand police forces and you'd have to pay more taxes to get it done.
Click to expand...

Less police, harsher punishment. We should bring back all the crazy shit........public hangings.....stoning mother fuc*ers......lets get some fear back in the public eye.....I'm talkin' Lex Talionis. You screw the system....everyone in the neighborhood gets a stone. In the past if you were accused of a crime they would string a rock to your feet and throw you in a pond....if you lived...you were innocent.....now that is some serious shit!

As stated before in this thread welfare is a great system gone bad. Physically or mentally unable to work - welfare. Otherwise get a job.....or get stoned.



Mashed Potato '08


I need a running mate if anyone is interested.....
Click to expand...

I thought if you lived you were guilty, and then hanged.
Click to expand...

Trial by ordeal. If you drowned, innocent, God accepted your soul. If you floated , God rejected you and judged you guilty, then you got tortured to death. Plus all your worldly goods confiscated, your house burned down, etc.
 
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
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'cause if not for the grace of God, you could be where they are.
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bull fucking shit. I'm where I am because my grandparents taught my father self reliance and in turn, he taught me the same thing. god has nothing to do with it.
 
Originally posted by: legoman666
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
Click to expand...

'cause if not for the grace of God, you could be where they are.
Click to expand...

bull fucking shit. I'm where I am because my grandparents taught my father self reliance and in turn, he taught me the same thing. god has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

Wow, that went right over your head. Someone else could've been born in your position while you were born to some drugged out ho in the ghetto. You won the birth canal lottery to have the grandpa and father you did. Not all are so lucky.
 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
Click to expand...

How else would politicians get the votes? If these programs were illegal, we wouldn't be the socialist country we are today.
 
Originally posted by: LS21
that norway is a terrible country with all of those social services
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It's also a small country of all the same caucasian ethnicity. Apples to Oranges.
 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
Click to expand...

because we r a great nation. and we should provide a minimal safety net for our citizens in hard times.

thats the theory.

here's reality:
my tax $ is bailing out the rich (bear sterns anyone?)

and going to substidize those that bought too much house and cant pay off their $2500/month interest only mortgages :|
 
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: Mashed Potato
Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Because if almost everyone who fell on hard times was allowed to spiral deeper and deeper into poverty you'd have an immense increase in crime that would directly affect you. In order to stop this massive increase in crime the goverment would have to massively expand police forces and you'd have to pay more taxes to get it done.
Click to expand...

Less police, harsher punishment. We should bring back all the crazy shit........public hangings.....stoning mother fuc*ers......lets get some fear back in the public eye.....I'm talkin' Lex Talionis. You screw the system....everyone in the neighborhood gets a stone. In the past if you were accused of a crime they would string a rock to your feet and throw you in a pond....if you lived...you were innocent.....now that is some serious shit!

As stated before in this thread welfare is a great system gone bad. Physically or mentally unable to work - welfare. Otherwise get a job.....or get stoned.



Mashed Potato '08


I need a running mate if anyone is interested.....
Click to expand...

I thought if you lived you were guilty, and then hanged.
Click to expand...

Trial by ordeal. If you drowned, innocent, God accepted your soul. If you floated , God rejected you and judged you guilty, then you got tortured to death. Plus all your worldly goods confiscated, your house burned down, etc.
Click to expand...

Ahh yes...."into a river with a millstone tied to his neck, and when he had fallen into the waters he was long supported on the surface by a divine miracle, and the waters did not suck him down since the weight of crime did not press upon him."

-wikipedia

so you are my running mate?


Edit: Both of our examples were on the site
 
Wow, I'm a Libertarian, but even I see your argument as petty and weak.

By these sames standards, I assume you also consider it unfair that you might pay for health insurance when you're in good shape, car insurance when you've never had a wreck, public roads when you walk every where, schools when you have no kids, police protection when you live in a low-crime neighborhood, etc.

Here's a bit of a secret I'll let you in on. The days of being 100% self-sufficient are over. Humans realized long ago that societies are better for individuals. That way you don't have to spend every waking moment of your existence worrying about growing your own food, pumping your own water, teaching you own kids, protecting your belongings, performing your own medical care, creating your own forms of entertainment, writing you own books, birthing your own babies, etc.

In a society, you have people who can specialize and contribute in different ways to help other members. You can also have better things by pooling resources. And as long as you have that, you are going to have some that contribute more/less than others. It unavoidable. The best you can do it mitigate it as much as is reasonable and still benefit society, and thus individuals.

If this bothers you, feel free to move into the woods and live off the land. But don't come bumming around civilization when you need a tooth pulled or a wound stitched. I mean, why should people more learned/skilled offer to help you, the less fortunate?
 
Originally posted by: BigDH01
Originally posted by: legoman666
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
Click to expand...

'cause if not for the grace of God, you could be where they are.
Click to expand...

bull fucking shit. I'm where I am because my grandparents taught my father self reliance and in turn, he taught me the same thing. god has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

Wow, that went right over your head. Someone else could've been born in your position while you were born to some drugged out ho in the ghetto. You won the birth canal lottery to have the grandpa and father you did. Not all are so lucky.
Click to expand...

dammit i demand a recount
 
I'm not against assisting people with difficult times, but I am against assisting them to a point where they no longer feel the need to work. Welfare, 'food stamps' and unemployment are over generous.

Replace welfare and unemployment with very basic community living facilities and replace 'food stamps' with 'rice and yesterday's bread' stamps. Now you're being civilized without being unreasonably generous.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Here's a bit of a secret I'll let you in on. The days of being 100% self-sufficient are over. Humans realized long ago that societies are better for individuals. That way you don't have to spend every waking moment of your existence worrying about growing your own food, pumping your own water, teaching you own kids, protecting your belongings, performing your own medical care, creating your own forms of entertainment, writing you own books, birthing your own babies, etc.
Click to expand...

While I was reading this my thought was, who can possibly be this stupid. Sure enough it's you, always setting the bar.

He's against socialism, not economics. On the contrary, devoted capitalism is about as monetary as you can get. I don't expect you to understand any of this, but I wouldn't forgive myself if I didn't at least try.


 
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Convince me why I should be involuntarily paying someone else's way?
Click to expand...

They did that in France once, the rich not paying attention to the poor.

The poor gathered together and cut off the heads of all the rich people.

Consider these programs you hate so much, as the price to keep your head on your shoulders.
 
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: LS21
that norway is a terrible country with all of those social services
Click to expand...

It's also a small country of all the same caucasian ethnicity. Apples to Oranges.
Click to expand...

Why don't you tell us how you feel about the darkies?
 
Screw it. Do what Japan does. No welfare unless you prove that you have taken every single step to get a job and hold it, but failed
 
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Here's a bit of a secret I'll let you in on. The days of being 100% self-sufficient are over. Humans realized long ago that societies are better for individuals. That way you don't have to spend every waking moment of your existence worrying about growing your own food, pumping your own water, teaching you own kids, protecting your belongings, performing your own medical care, creating your own forms of entertainment, writing you own books, birthing your own babies, etc.
Click to expand...

While I was reading this my thought was, who can possibly be this stupid. Sure enough it's you, always setting the bar.
Click to expand...

You calling him stupid? Oh the iron E.

I laugh when I hear people talk about how self-sufficient they are, and how they don't think people should have welfare or MedicAid or <insert random social program>. Newsflash guys, you aren't anywhere near as self-sufficient as you think. As cK is pointing out, there is a whole massive development and construct called "society" that provides you with a safe haven and a variety of systems for surviving within the shelter of its protection. You think that because you work at a job you are practicing self-sufficiency and are an independent human being? Don't kid yourself. Plucked out of your comfortable society and placed in the wild to practice true self-sufficiency you probably wouldn't last a week. You all accept some sort of welfare, you just choose not to call it that.
 
Why should I have to pay for highways that allow suburbanites to waste natural resources commuting 100 miles a day, or for a military that doesn't personally protect me, or for a coast guard that protects me from harmless Cuban kids on rafts?


404 Logic not found.

The OP needs to go back to school and learn a sense of perspective, if that is learnable.
 
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Screw it. Do what Japan does. No welfare unless you prove that you have taken every single step to get a job and hold it.
Click to expand...

The argument is we'd have tons more violence if we instituted something like this.

I don't know if I buy it. If gun ownership also increased, then people would be more likely to get a job than continually raid houses (because they'd eventually get killed).

Entitlements exist to garner votes.

Vote Libertarian.
 
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