Why do we allow so few to hoard to much wealth?

[Steeplerot]

Huh? The labor produced by workers?
The labor of the workers went into the product they created.
It has nothing to do with the money used to purchase their labor.

After you make enough product to pay for your wages and the materials/electric and overhead what do you call the profit? Theft from the worker. This is why 2% have all the money and capitalism's big secret. We are still serfs having to beg the landowners/bosses for some of the excess wealth we create for society for our own betterment. Capitalists produce nothing -but actually CHARGE us for the privilege to tell us to work faster/harder.

 

[Matt1970]

This is false, money makes money. What does a capitalist produce? Nothing. They take surplus stolen wages from workers and horde it mainly.

Need proof? Take a look at the 98% of the world who have been stolen from. Why are there so few jobs and a whole world of starving? Your idea is naive to the extreme if you look at any history at all.

Capitalist are just new new slavemasters of serfdom. You my comrade are a excellent slave who serves mastah well..

Do you just make this shit up as you go along? Take a look at some of the precious Communist Governments you love so well. They leave their people in squalor while the Government lives in the lap of luxury.

 

[Steeplerot]

Do you just make this shit up as you go along? Take a look at some of the precious Communist Governments you love so well. They leave their people in squalor while the Government lives in the lap of luxury.

No this is mainstream basic economics. Not the libertarian kind of BS the rich and their media are trying to feed you.

And quit with the stalinism strawman, no one is calling for freaking bolshevism in the USA. State Capitalism (what you refer to as communism) is wage slavery as well.

 

[fskimospy]

There will always be a large component of Americans who will fight to the death for other people to be far wealthier than they are. They will never get the joke, and they will never realize that they aren't part of the club.

You can't fix their delusion, because they will always think that they are just about to be someone rich and important... and they will die believing that is just around the corner. In this way the American Dream is truly a nightmare, because it makes people act against their own best interest.

 

[Matt1970]

No this is mainstream basic economics. Not the libertarian kind of BS the rich and their media are trying to feed you.

And quit with the stalinism strawman, no one is calling for freaking bolshevism in the USA. State Capitalism (what you refer to as communism) is wage slavery as well.

You guys are cute lately with the little strawman comments. Stalinism, as you like to call it, is being practiced in many a nation and the people suffer greatly for it. But hey, the Government knows what's best for the people and it's money, not the people themselves. Leaving you to decide your own fate is clearly brainwashing from the media.

 

[Steeplerot]

But hey, the Government knows what's best for the people and it's money, not the people themselves.

I would rather have a CHOICE by vote of how to distribute our excess labor then depend on the capitalists to distribute OUR excess wages they steal over their costs to produce in the naive hope they do something useful besides buying mountain ranges of cocaine or hoard our money as they always have done throughout history.

The right to own your commodities is a farce if you are still a wage-slave. The right wing idea of economic liberty is a con job to get you to give up your labor as "profits" are a inherent right of the wealthy from god himself. This is a old idea, we called it serfdom back in the day.

 

[Matt1970]

I would rather have a CHOICE by vote of how to distribute our excess labor then depend on the capitalists distribute OUR excess wages over their costs to produce and hope they do something useful besides buying mountain ranges of cocaine or hoard our money as they always have done throughout history.

You mean voting in people who will equally distribute the wealth around, then start deciding who does what jobs and what businesses are allowed, ultimately being a one party government that ends up leaving it's people ravaged. * cough ** Communism *

No thanks.

 

[Nebor]

There will always be a large component of Americans who will fight to the death for other people to be far wealthier than they are. They will never get the joke, and they will never realize that they aren't part of the club.

You can't fix their delusion, because they will always think that they are just about to be someone rich and important... and they will die believing that is just around the corner. In this way the American Dream is truly a nightmare, because it makes people act against their own best interest.

Uh, you seem to be saying that hope is a bad thing. When people stop believing that fame and fortune is right around the corner, they stop trying, and then just become a leach on society. The American Dream is about making it big with a great idea and a little bit of luck. People have to have hope for that to happen. The fact that there a majority of Americans believe that, and that many would fight and die to preserve the system that enables that to happen is a great thing, in my opinion.

 

[Nebor]

After you make enough product to pay for your wages and the materials/electric and overhead what do you call the profit? Theft from the worker. This is why 2% have all the money and capitalism's big secret. We are still serfs having to beg the landowners/bosses for some of the excess wealth we create for society for our own betterment. Capitalists produce nothing -but actually CHARGE us for the privilege to tell us to work faster/harder.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Do you have a handbook you're getting this stuff out of? Absolutely redonkulous.

 

[Steeplerot]

ultimately being a one party government that ends up leaving it's people ravaged.

As I said, once again you are hung up on State Capitalist systems so you think the other extreme is correct. This is a idealogical fallacy once again.

 

[Steeplerot]

Uh, you seem to be saying that hope is a bad thing. When people stop believing that fame and fortune is right around the corner, they stop trying, and then just become a leach on society. The American Dream is about making it big with a great idea and a little bit of luck. People have to have hope for that to happen. The fact that there a majority of Americans believe that, and that many would fight and die to preserve the system that enables that to happen is a great thing, in my opinion.

In other words your ideology is based off of faith. Not reason. People can not count on winning the lottery of life to feed their families. When in reality the lottery is lost if you are not born into money. Sorry, this is the real world, it still does not excuse wage-slavery or capitalism.

They use that carrot and stick game to sell you into serfdom. The elites always have. Most of human history it was "Sure, you are a slave now, but you can work your way out of it if you work harder!" This does not justify slavery.

 

[Matt1970]

Communism is the only way. Do not believe the Capitalist Lie !! Let the Government distribute what it thinks is a fair wage. You will like the job we select for you.

 

[Nebor]

In other words your ideology is based off of faith. Not reason. People can not count on winning the lottery of life to feed their families. When in reality the lottery is lost if you are not born into money. Sorry, this is the real world, it still does not excuse wage-slavery or capitalism.

Didn't you elect someone based on faith? How's that workin' out for ya by the way?


No, my "ideology" if you want to call it that, is simply that people need to keep trying. They need to WANT to try, and the desire\hope for riches is a great motivator. There's a big difference between winning the lottery and coming up with a winning idea and putting in the work to make it a success. The odds of either happening may be roughly the same, but you have a better chance of influencing the outcome of the latter.

 

[Steeplerot]

Communism is the only way. Do not believe the Capitalist Lie !! Let the Government distribute what it thinks is a fair wage. You will like the job we select for you.

You are way out of your league and it shows comrade, you as a good capitalist tool should be able to defend your faith based reasoning better. :awe:

 

[matt0611]

After you make enough product to pay for your wages and the materials/electric and overhead what do you call the profit? Theft from the worker. This is why 2% have all the money and capitalism's big secret. We are still serfs having to beg the landowners/bosses for some of the excess wealth we create for society for our own betterment. Capitalists produce nothing -but actually CHARGE us for the privilege to tell us to work faster/harder.

The profits that they make are not stolen from the workers.

In a pre-capitalist economy, people would make commodities by themselves and sell them to other people. So they would make 100% profit on what they made since there are no wages.

In a capitalist economy, the money that goes to wages in a firm is subtracted from its total revenue. It is actually subtracted from the "profit", making it smaller. We commonly call whats left, the real profit.

The reason the worker doesn't get the full value is because of division of labor (he didn't make the whole thing himself), overhead (electricity to run the plant, heat, rents for buildings, purchase of capital, people to organize or maintain the plant), and also time preference (a commodity in the present time is more valuable than a commodity in the future).

 

[Steeplerot]

Didn't you elect someone based on faith?

I did not vote for Obama no. And I would anytime prefer being able to investigate and research a candidate and have Democratic choice then depend on some capitalist to pee some of my own wealth back to me like some god of the 21st century nonsense.

 

[Nebor]

Hoarding has always been a net negative as you are removing labor produced by workers off the market creating a net loss for all as far as oppurtunity. Period.

The rich do not know better then us what to do with our money. If they did then why do we have world hunger and so much unemployment when there are plenty of resources for all?


You are being conned.

There are not plenty of resources for all. People have limited means and unlimited wants. Weren't you "schooling" someone on "basic economics" earlier?

The reason there is world hunger is because people are deprived of food by their governments. Controlling food is a way to control the people, so when the UN and US flies in tons (literally tons) of food, it sits and rots in a government depot and is only distributed to the chosen few. The problem is that the citizens of those countries don't want freedom. They prefer to starve. Take a look at North Korea, they're big into that communism thing. The boss even wears drab grey clothes.

 

[Nebor]

The greatest relief about American leftists (communists and socialists) is that they tend to lack the balls of their Asian and South American idols. They're not actually willing to visit violence and executions on their political opponents as a means of achieving their goals.

Here's hoping for a Pinochet style culling of the leftist herd.

 

[Steeplerot]

The reason the worker doesn't get the full value is because of division of labor (he didn't make the whole thing himself), overhead (electricity to run the plant, heat, rents for buildings, purchase of capital, people to organize or maintain the plant), and also time preference (a commodity in the present time is more valuable than a commodity in the future).

Damn thats naive, That does not count for all buddy. The boss is still screwing you for a good chunk. I thought you righties hated all taxation without representation?


Put up or shut up you hypocrites. It's only yourself you are screwing.

 

[Zebo]

Might makes right. always has always will. If people choose to be meek little bitches and take societal constructs given given that's what they deserve. You truly are paid what you're worth.

 

[Steeplerot]

Here's hoping for a Pinochet style culling of the leftist herd.

And here is where the capitalists show their true colors, sorry guys we will win. All forms of slavery is destined to lose and Democracy will win in the end. Capitalists will hang themselves from the very ropes we make for them. It is in the very DNA of our species to have made it this far from millenia of endless serfdom in quite a few forms. Capitalism is next. :thumbsup:

 

[Matt1970]

And here is where the capitalists show their true colors, sorry guys we will win. All forms of slavery is destined to lose and Democracy will win in the end. Capitalists will hang themselves from the very ropes we make for them. :thumbsup:

 

[Matt1970]

It's kind of hard to quote your ridiculousness if you keep editing your posts.

 

[Steeplerot]

Enjoy the last gasps of serfdom, the pitchforks are coming out sooner or later. If you are not going to redistribute wealth from the elites in a society democratically that are stolen from the working classes we all know how this goes. Mass media is the only thing left propping up the old society anymore. Old folks who suck that stuff up from being raised in front of a tv in the 50s-60s-70-80s are dying more and more daily.

The next century will be ours.

 

[Matt1970]

And the Capitalists are committing suicide on our borders.