Why do so many I.T. professionals come across as condescending

[ArmchairAthlete]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: her209
The worst group is the Software Development/Engineering group. They complain about not being able to install programs on their computers and have no regard for IT policies and procedures. Don't even get me started when they try to tell you how to run your network.

Would drive me nuts if the shop I worked in as a software developer didn't trust me enough to let me install what I wanted.

If you can't trust your engineers and let them do their thing, let them get what they need to work, your company is in trouble IMO.

There are many reasons to restrict users in general from having the ability to install software on their computers:

1. Security. I don't care how "good" you claim to be with computers, no one needs administrative rights all the time. This is a huge security no-no.
2. Software Licenses. They'll install anything and everything that they think they'll need without any regard for proper licensing. Guess who takes the fall when a license audit is conducted?
3. Software Control. Not only would it be a nightmare to manage, should a user decide to install the latest software, other users cannot view work saved in the new version.
4. Proper Testing. Its not your job to install software and updates. Should the install affect system stability or performance, guess who has to come fix the problem?

and on and on.

But developer != users in general like RichUK mentioned. I would hope that if someone became a software developer they'd not have issues with this stuff. Although there are unqualified people as developers too...

#2 might be an issue, but I never once heard of a license audit where I was working. Not that people were piling on the warez or something though. Someone isn't exercising common sense if they're getting cracks, but I can see someone using a "trial period" for software that's supposed to be for home / non-commercial use and not reading the agreement.

You know you've gone too corporate when there's enough red tape so that it takes you half a day to get WinRAR installed.

We had an IT dept that helped developers among other people. They were great and didn't get in the way.

 

[LS21]

developer != proficient, or even competent, users

 

[manlymatt83]

Originally posted by: gamepad
Because it's they have low self esteem?

Probably true.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
But developer != users in general like RichUK mentioned. I would hope that if someone became a software developer they'd not have issues with this stuff. Although there are unqualified people as developers too...

#2 might be an issue, but I never once heard of a license audit where I was working. Not that people were piling on the warez or something though. Someone isn't exercising common sense if they're getting cracks, but I can see someone using a "trial period" for software that's supposed to be for home / non-commercial use and not reading the agreement.

You know you've gone too corporate when there's enough red tape so that it takes you half a day to get WinRAR installed.

We had an IT dept that helped developers among other people. They were great and didn't get in the way.

I have issue with users who want Office Professional (from Office Standard) because they think they might need Microsoft Access sometime in the future. I can't recount the number of times someone has demanded to have some software installed on their computer without procuring the licenses first because its "urgent" and they need to get the job done. Or the endless number of complaints from users because they want to use program X because its what they're used to and/or use at home.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: her209
I have issue with users who want Office Professional (from Office Standard) because they think they might need Microsoft Access sometime in the future. I can't recount the number of times someone has demanded to have some software installed on their computer without procuring the licenses first because its "urgent" and they need to get the job done. Or the endless number of complaints from users because they want to use program X because its what they're used to and/or use at home.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I get pissed off when I'm told that I don't need Office Professional, and that I cannot have Office Pro, because I don't need Microsoft Access. In reality, I do need Access. I use a lot of MDBs, for various reasons. That said, I wouldn't demand it if I couldn't get a license for it.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: zach0624
my dad works for boeing and is great with computers (even though I have to help him out some now with linux) and the only problems with IT he has is that they won't let him install opera on his laptop, they won't let him repair the laptop himself, don't let him use open office and don't let him install add on cards.

Having to fix computer problems for my whole family and help people at school (my teachers found out that I was good with computers) I can see how IT people can seem condescending. I get a lot of people wondering why the mouse they have that isn't plugged in doesn't work. People asking where the start button was or how to open word. Why the computer froze when they installed some free crap off the internet. Why they are typing in all caps.

oh noez the IT nazis...

That is probably corporate policy recommended by consultants with the stamp of approval of auditors. All hail SOX.

 

[nitro28]

Originally posted by: nitro28

Very nice. This is the kind of stuff that I will think about when working with IT. This has been a helpful thread for me because I am getting a full view of both sides. Like I said it would be good if companies had a few more meetings or get togethers where IT and non-IT could mingle more without the stress of a problem. See quote in next post: I missed it in this one.

 

[nitro28]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper

Originally posted by: nitro28
So IT guys, give us a few things that would ease the relationship a bit for those of us that are on the other side.

Off the top of my head:

1) Give advance warning of hardware/software/network requirements whenever possible.
2) If you know you did something wrong or very bad, just tell us straight away, it saves a lot of pain.
3) If you have no idea what you're doing or why you're doing it, ask for help or advice first. Clicking random stuff and crossing your fingers is dangerous.
4) Use the correct terminology if you can.
5) Read the screen, don't ignore it. This includes dialog boxes, title bars etc. They tell you and us what's going on and where you are in the software. This helps a lot.
6) Think about the steps you took before the problem occurred, we can then try to reproduce the problem from that.
7) Write down error messages or take screenshots of anything you think is important.
8) Too much detail is better than not enough or none.
9) If you know you have a time-critical process to run that day, don't leave it to the last minute because it *will* fuck up on you then we're both screwed.
10) If you have a complex problem, put it into words via email first. Give us a little time to digest that first then follow up with a call.

This is the quote I was talking about in the above post.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: her209
The worst group is the Software Development/Engineering group. They complain about not being able to install programs on their computers and have no regard for IT policies and procedures. Don't even get me started when they try to tell you how to run your network.

Would drive me nuts if the shop I worked in as a software developer didn't trust me enough to let me install what I wanted.

If you can't trust your engineers and let them do their thing, let them get what they need to work, your company is in trouble IMO.

There are many reasons to restrict users in general from having the ability to install software on their computers:

1. Security. I don't care how "good" you claim to be with computers, no one needs administrative rights all the time. This is a huge security no-no.
2. Software Licenses. They'll install anything and everything that they think they'll need without any regard for proper licensing. Guess who takes the fall when a license audit is conducted?
3. Software Control. Not only would it be a nightmare to manage, should a user decide to install the latest software, other users cannot view work saved in the new version.
4. Proper Testing. Its not your job to install software and updates. Should the install affect system stability or performance, guess who has to come fix the problem?

and on and on.

But developer != users in general like RichUK mentioned. I would hope that if someone became a software developer they'd not have issues with this stuff. Although there are unqualified people as developers too...

#2 might be an issue, but I never once heard of a license audit where I was working. Not that people were piling on the warez or something though. Someone isn't exercising common sense if they're getting cracks, but I can see someone using a "trial period" for software that's supposed to be for home / non-commercial use and not reading the agreement.

You know you've gone too corporate when there's enough red tape so that it takes you half a day to get WinRAR installed.

We had an IT dept that helped developers among other people. They were great and didn't get in the way.

Umm....some software developers are total no-nothings when it comes to PC's. The first rule on any network should be the rule of least principle. In other words, only give people the rights they need.

Otherwise you're asking for trouble. Many software has security flaws that can expose a network.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: her209
The worst group is the Software Development/Engineering group. They complain about not being able to install programs on their computers and have no regard for IT policies and procedures. Don't even get me started when they try to tell you how to run your network.

Would drive me nuts if the shop I worked in as a software developer didn't trust me enough to let me install what I wanted.

If you can't trust your engineers and let them do their thing, let them get what they need to work, your company is in trouble IMO.

There are many reasons to restrict users in general from having the ability to install software on their computers:

1. Security. I don't care how "good" you claim to be with computers, no one needs administrative rights all the time. This is a huge security no-no.
2. Software Licenses. They'll install anything and everything that they think they'll need without any regard for proper licensing. Guess who takes the fall when a license audit is conducted?
3. Software Control. Not only would it be a nightmare to manage, should a user decide to install the latest software, other users cannot view work saved in the new version.
4. Proper Testing. Its not your job to install software and updates. Should the install affect system stability or performance, guess who has to come fix the problem?

and on and on.

But developer != users in general like RichUK mentioned. I would hope that if someone became a software developer they'd not have issues with this stuff. Although there are unqualified people as developers too...

#2 might be an issue, but I never once heard of a license audit where I was working. Not that people were piling on the warez or something though. Someone isn't exercising common sense if they're getting cracks, but I can see someone using a "trial period" for software that's supposed to be for home / non-commercial use and not reading the agreement.

You know you've gone too corporate when there's enough red tape so that it takes you half a day to get WinRAR installed.

We had an IT dept that helped developers among other people. They were great and didn't get in the way.

Umm....some software developers are total no-nothings when it comes to PC's. The first rule on any network should be the rule of least principle. In other words, only give people the rights they need.

Otherwise you're asking for trouble. Many software has security flaws that can expose a network.

You no nothing about English.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I think there are several reasons that I.T. people can come off as condescending.

1) The field lends itself to people with a strong preference for left-brain thinking. This means that they are apt to be somewhat less than socially polished and it's quite possible that they simply don't realise that they are being condescending. Assessing social presence "on the fly" is not something that comes naturally to someone with a very strong left-brain thinking preference, which means that even though they have the ability to recognise when they are being annoying, they usually won't realise until long after the fact.

2) The job itself tends to be very busy. Performance is often measured in terms of trouble tickets resolved and there's always a long queue of tickets waiting to be completed. They simply don't have the time to go slowly through something and teach someone what to do. Their time is best used to come in, fix the problem as fast as they can, and leave. They don't have time to chat about someone's kid's little league team and they really don't care how something worked fine at home and the person can't understand why it crashed the computer here. They just want to fix the problem and leave.

3) There are also only so many times that a person can fix the same problem without being irked. Yes, this may be the first time that John Doe downloaded Bonzai Buddy and screwed up his computer, but if the I.T. guy has had to fix that problem 20 times already today, then the I.T. guy's overall opinion of humanity is not exactly on the upswing at that point.

None of this is meant to be an excuse, and it's certainly not an exhaustive set of hypotheses, but it's what came up off the top of my head.

ZV

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Farang
Any time you pair together one person who knows about something with a person who doesn't you're going to find. . . condensation.

hahaha

 

[Chaotic42]

I think that it's because we really only notice the jerks. When everything is running well, no one thinks of IT. I've worked in IT before with some *excellent* people and I've worked with some real jerks. The excellent people just quietly do things properly. The jerks really stand out.

I worked in a data center and had to page people quite a bit. It often went like this:

Them: "Why did you have to page me at 4am for this?!"
Me: "Because it brought all of the systems down and your own procedure says this is pageworthy"
Them: "But it's 4am!"
Me: "You guys should have set the thing up properly to begin with."

The last part I only thought, except for when I quit and the IT manager asked me why.

Anyway, good IT people are worth their... high school weight in gold.

 

[RichUK]

This thread is now officially serious cat.

 

[imported_nerve]

This sums it up

 

[yambag021]

here is the reason why IT seems like arrogant pricks.

1. User calls into IT.
2. User says problem
3. IT looks at issue and begins troubleshooting.
4. When IT begins basic troubleshoting, user generally fires back with "I already tried that, do you think i'm an idiot?"

*enter aggravation*

5. IT explains the need to start from scratch to ensure all routes and causes for issue are explored
6. IT then gives possible route to resolve issue.
7. user states "i dont think that will fix it"

*enter more aggravation*

8. IT continues to troubleshoot.
9. use then finds a need to explain they had an Apple 2 computer back in 1988 so they know alot about computers.

*enter more aggravation*

10. IT guy gets fed up bc rather than the user following the steps given to resolve the issue, they find a need to question everything they are being told to do.
11. IT guy then explains to the user if was as knowledgeable as he thinks he is, he wouldnt be on the phone with IT.
12. User now feels IT is a jerk and acts like know it alls

*enter pot calling kettle black*

13. IT resolves issue.
14. User hangs up and tells coworker "that guy was a jerk, he had no idea what he was doing. he got lucky and fixed it".

now there are MANY times people call and listen to what they are told and realize that IT IS the help desk, and they cooperate. but those people are FEW and FAR away. Just because you USE a computer doesnt mean you know EVERTYHING about it.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: yambag021
here is the reason why IT seems like arrogant pricks.

1. User calls into IT.
2. User says problem
3. IT looks at issue and begins troubleshooting.
4. When IT begins basic troubleshoting, user generally fires back with "I already tried that, do you think i'm an idiot?"

*enter aggravation*

5. IT explains the need to start from scratch to ensure all routes and causes for issue are explored
6. IT then gives possible route to resolve issue.
7. user states "i dont think that will fix it"

*enter more aggravation*

8. IT continues to troubleshoot.
9. use then finds a need to explain they had an Apple 2 computer back in 1988 so they know alot about computers.

*enter more aggravation*

10. IT guy gets fed up bc rather than the user following the steps given to resolve the issue, they find a need to question everything they are being told to do.
11. IT guy then explains to the user if was as knowledgeable as he thinks he is, he wouldnt be on the phone with IT.
12. User now feels IT is a jerk and acts like know it alls

*enter pot calling kettle black*

13. IT resolves issue.
14. User hangs up and tells coworker "that guy was a jerk, he had no idea what he was doing. he got lucky and fixed it".

now there are MANY times people call and listen to what they are told and realize that IT IS the help desk, and they cooperate. but those people are FEW and FAR away. Just because you USE a computer doesnt mean you know EVERTYHING about it.

Wow... you signed up just to post that?

:Q

 

[sdifox]

I think Scott Adams puts it best, it's called "if you don't have Prima Donna Syndrome, you are not good enough."

 

[TXHokie]

Because we walk around expecting people to bow down and kiss our feet but it's just not happening...and where's that supermodel we were promised????

 

[yambag021]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: yambag021
here is the reason why IT seems like arrogant pricks.

1. User calls into IT.
2. User says problem
3. IT looks at issue and begins troubleshooting.
4. When IT begins basic troubleshoting, user generally fires back with "I already tried that, do you think i'm an idiot?"

*enter aggravation*

5. IT explains the need to start from scratch to ensure all routes and causes for issue are explored
6. IT then gives possible route to resolve issue.
7. user states "i dont think that will fix it"

*enter more aggravation*

8. IT continues to troubleshoot.
9. use then finds a need to explain they had an Apple 2 computer back in 1988 so they know alot about computers.

*enter more aggravation*

10. IT guy gets fed up bc rather than the user following the steps given to resolve the issue, they find a need to question everything they are being told to do.
11. IT guy then explains to the user if was as knowledgeable as he thinks he is, he wouldnt be on the phone with IT.
12. User now feels IT is a jerk and acts like know it alls

*enter pot calling kettle black*

13. IT resolves issue.
14. User hangs up and tells coworker "that guy was a jerk, he had no idea what he was doing. he got lucky and fixed it".

now there are MANY times people call and listen to what they are told and realize that IT IS the help desk, and they cooperate. but those people are FEW and FAR away. Just because you USE a computer doesnt mean you know EVERTYHING about it.

Wow... you signed up just to post that?

:Q

yup.
thats what IT guys do on their down time when another IT guy sends a thread like this to him. it's called 2cents........ didnt know i had to be a 7 year vet to put mine in.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: loki8481
because they spent high school/college with their heads crammed in books memorizing info they'll never need and hanging out on irc instead of developing social skills?

Says the guy with 14.6K posts. . .

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: zach0624
my dad works for boeing and is great with computers (even though I have to help him out some now with linux) and the only problems with IT he has is that they won't let him install opera on his laptop, they won't let him repair the laptop himself, don't let him use open office and don't let him install add on cards.

Your dad is the problem. Not IT. Because what you and your dad fail to realize is it is NOT HIS laptop. If you are issued a corporate laptop, it is issued to you to do your job and is company property. The IT guy is charged with keeping a standard corporate image on the laptop so that if anything goes wrong with it, it is very quick and easy (hopefully) to fix. Just like if you break the little seal stickers they put on stuff that break to indicate tampering which voids warranty. Putting your own stuff on your company laptop makes somebody else's job that much more difficult if something goes wrong with it. It doesn't matter to the IT guy how much your dad knows about computers. What matters to him is that if he lets your dad slide and do it, then soon others will be wanting the same. Soon everybody wants to install whatever they want on their computers. Now the poor IT guy has a maintenance nightmare on his hands.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: her209
The worst group is the Software Development/Engineering group. They complain about not being able to install programs on their computers and have no regard for IT policies and procedures. Don't even get me started when they try to tell you how to run your network.

That's because it is not properly setup. Developers have to mess with their own computer all the time. They should have their own group setup and able to interact with their own machine. But only their own machine.

 

[marvdmartian]

I'm in a little different situation where I work, being as I work for Uncle Sam, at a USAF base.

"COMM" controls the network, sends down updates (usually in the middle of the night, when everyone else is sleeping), controls the firewall, internet access, etc. They also come up with their crippled version of Windows every time we update to a new O/S, which then is eventually upgraded to something usable after a dozen or so updates. :roll:

In my squadron, we have 3 people that work up in the "Computer Office". The one in charge is, sadly, not the most knowledgeable (all the IT guys reading this are now likely shaking their heads and saying, "ain't that the truth?!?"), and basically was upgraded to the network administrator position when we went from various LAN systems to a central network for the whole base. One gal in the office I have no idea what sort of knowledge she has, but think she's there more from being buddy-buddy with the network administrator than anything else. The third person is really the only one with any sort of knowledge level, and (thankfully) is also a really nice guy, and had become one of my best friends. Not because he does extra stuff for me, but because he and I can sit there and talk computers, and actually know what each other are talking about. He also realizes that I know a little, and doesn't mind teaching what I don't know. Believe me, he has his share of know-nothings to deal with, and I'm glad I can lighten his load a little bit.

What amazes me, not even being an IT type, is the vast number of people that own computers, without ever having a CLUE what they're doing!! Yeah, okay, not everyone's savvy about computers, but at least do me (and the IT guys) a favor, and when you ask us how to do something, PAY ATTENTION, TAKE NOTES, AND REMEMBER HOW TO DO IT THE NEXT TIME!!! Geez, it's amazing how quickly you can reach your condescension threshold, when you deal with the same DUMB questions time after time!!

I mean......how many times do you have to be told how to set an image as your desktop background? Or worse, how many times do I have to explain how to COPY & PASTE????

Yeah........might explain why Apple computers, which are supposedly more user friendly, have become so popular in recent years.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian

Yeah........might explain why Apple computers, which are supposedly more user friendly, have become so popular in recent years.

No more user friendly than Windows systems.

I've done stuff with Macs before and they have odd places for things - configuration and such.

I still don't see how they call themselves user friendly - I remember using some Macs years ago - put a CD in to listen to some music on it. Then when I wanted to eject it, I pushed the eject button. Nothing happened. You actually had to drag the stupid CD icon on the desktop to the trash to get it to eject. How is that user freindly?