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Why do people think that electric cars will change everything

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Xylitol

Diamond Member
We're just gonna have to burn more coal to fuel the amount of energy needed by these electric cars... we're gonna be making pollution either way
 
Originally posted by: Xylitol
We're just gonna have to burn more coal to fuel the amount of energy needed by these electric cars... we're gonna be making pollution either way
Click to expand...

Even burning coal is more efficient than gasoline, or diesel. Also, many locales use hydro, and nuclear. Solar and wind are also viable options for some areas of the country.
 
We as a species are so screwed. Only the healthiest/richest top ~10% will survive the incoming peak oil and peak food production I will no doubt experience in my lifetime. Nothing causes war like a good old fashioned shortage of vital resources and 7billion+ mouths to feed. The last bit of oil will probably be used to blow something up, sadly.
 
I keep hoping we switch to alchohol hybrids.

All we need to do is improve the efficiency of alchohol production, and frankly I think that if a good portion of the country were able to produce alchohol crops then eventually SOMEBODY would make some pretty darn impressive yields. This is one situation where American greed would work out just fine.

The only problem I see is corporations swallowing each other up and eventually all alchohol is produced by one group. Then it wont be much better than the way it is now with oil.
 
Originally posted by: OverVolt
We as a species are so screwed. Only the healthiest/richest top ~10% will survive the incoming peak oil and peak food production I will no doubt experience in my lifetime. Nothing causes war like a good old fashioned shortage of vital resources and 7billion+ mouths to feed. The last bit of oil will probably be used to blow something up, sadly.
Click to expand...

What makes you think the dying 90% won't take the other 10% with them? I remember a bumper sticker that said eat the rich, and burn their homes to stay warm.
 
In time, I'm sure we'll find cleaner energy sources.

My money's on better solar power, and for a primary source, fusion.



Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: Xylitol
We're just gonna have to burn more coal to fuel the amount of energy needed by these electric cars... we're gonna be making pollution either way
Click to expand...

Even burning coal is more efficient than gasoline, or diesel. Also, many locales use hydro, and nuclear. Solar and wind are also viable options for some areas of the country.
Click to expand...
I wonder by how much. Gasoline engines in cars are not especially efficient. The amount of available energy in a given quantity of gasoline, versus what makes it to the wheels, is really quite low.

And with coal/oil/natural gas/nuclear/other primary power generation, there are similar thermodynamic losses in the boilers and accompanying generators, though higher operating temperatures can be achieved, helping to minimize that. Then there are losses during transmission. Tack into that efficiency losses to convert AC into DC to charge cars, plus efficiency losses inherent to the batteries themselves.

End to end, I do wonder how the efficiencies of gasoline vs electric cars compares.

Though if we can get clean sources like solar and nuclear fusion, that may not matter as much. 🙂


 
Originally posted by: OverVolt
We as a species are so screwed. Only the healthiest/richest top ~10% will survive the incoming peak oil and peak food production I will no doubt experience in my lifetime. Nothing causes war like a good old fashioned shortage of vital resources and 7billion+ mouths to feed. The last bit of oil will probably be used to blow something up, sadly.
Click to expand...

i doubt that. The rest of the world has already moved on to mass transit, so most of europe and asia will be fine. the united states being the only developed nation without capable mass transit (with the exception of NY) will probably be the only one left with a dependence on oil.
 
Originally posted by: shortylickens
I keep hoping we switch to alchohol hybrids.

All we need to do is improve the efficiency of alchohol production, and frankly I think that if a good portion of the country were able to produce alchohol crops then eventually SOMEBODY would make some pretty darn impressive yields. This is one situation where American greed would work out just fine.
Click to expand...
There is that pesky water shortage problem though ......
 
Originally posted by: OverVolt
We as a species are so screwed. Only the healthiest/richest top ~10% will survive the incoming peak oil and peak food production I will no doubt experience in my lifetime. Nothing causes war like a good old fashioned shortage of vital resources and 7billion+ mouths to feed. The last bit of oil will probably be used to blow something up, sadly.
Click to expand...

If you believe the scare tactics then what's the point in even going to work/school in the morning? You might as well just buy a bike and a tent, quit your job, and live out in a field somewhere that you can craft a little garden so you can survive this doom.
 
The idea is to produce clean electricity from sources other than fossil fuels. Right now, that means taking advantage of nuclear to generate enough electricity needed for so many electric cars. In the future, I imagine solar will take over but until we phase out natural gas and coal fired plants, electric cars are really only for people making a statement. At least that statement is in the right direction.
 
Hydrogen and electricity are energy carriers, not sources.
But, if the energy comes from solar, wind, tidal, or geothermal sources, and converted to electricity for electric car batteries or used in hydrolysis for hydrogen fuel, then you will have a real change.
 
Per mile driven, an electric car (using electricty produced by any means) is thousands of times more efficient than an internal combustion engine. Also, on an energy basis, fossil fuel power plants are much cleaner than cars, whether it be Nox, Sox, Carbon or heat output.

Nuclear power is the clear answer here, and nuclear waste wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the government (see France for an example).

And don't even get started on hydrogen. With today's technology, its take more energy to create the hydrogen fuel than can be produced by the very same hydrogen fuel. Hopefully that will change soon though.
 
Damn hippies!

But yeah not all areas are powered by fossil fuels, I am pretty much powered by Hydro where I am.

I thought there is more losses here when it comes to power if it is fossil fuel (like coal based)??

fuel combustion -> generator -> power lines -> battery -> wheels

vs

fuel combustion -> wheels
 
Originally posted by: calvinbiss
Per mile driven, an electric car (using electricty produced by any means) is thousands of times more efficient than an internal combustion engine.
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I call BS.

Aren't most ICE's about 35-38% efficient? A coal fired plant is generally in that range give or take. We have a combined cycle plant here that is one of the most efficient in the world, and it's only at 50%.

edit - and that doesn't account for any losses between generation and the wheels....
 
Originally posted by: calvinbiss
Per mile driven, an electric car (using electricty produced by any means) is thousands of times more efficient than an internal combustion engine. Also, on an energy basis, fossil fuel power plants are much cleaner than cars, whether it be Nox, Sox, Carbon or heat output.

Nuclear power is the clear answer here, and nuclear waste wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the government (see France for an example).

And don't even get started on hydrogen. With today's technology, its take more energy to create the hydrogen fuel than can be produced by the very same hydrogen fuel. Hopefully that will change soon though.
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That is never going to change. if it did then you would have discovered a fundamental breakthrough in our understanding of physics. When we use hydrogen, we are basically converting it to H2O, when we get it we are converting it from H2O. You can't use less energy to break up H2O then the energy you get out of making H2O. (and all that claim otherwise are quacks, right up there with perpetual motion machines)

As for the electric car. Using it makes sense really. Electric motors are something like 90% efficient, and electric batteries are also around that efficiency. Compared to the average car that is around 18% efficient, you see the difference. Heck a gas power plant is 40% efficient. So it really makes more sense to burn the gas in a gas power plant and then use it in our electric cars then it does to just burn the gas in our own cars.

Electric Motor efficiency: http://www.engineeringtoolbox....-efficiency-d_655.html

ICE efficiency: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...gine#Energy_efficiency
"Most steel engines have a thermodynamic limit of 37%. Even when aided with turbochargers and stock efficiency aids, most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18%-20%."

Gas Power Plant Efficiency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...rcritical_steam_plants
"Subcritical fossil fuel power plants can achieve 36?40% efficiency." And goes on to say that supercritical plants can hit 48%
 
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