Why do people like manual transmissions?

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Raduque
My Oldsmobile was like that. It'd spin the tires in 3rd at 60mph if I stepped on it hard, and it Just Went. God I miss that car. Oh yea, it had a shift kit on the turbo350 "slush" box that'd outshift the best manual driver in this thread.

Prefering a manual is not always about faster shifting or faster acceleration.

Maybe..... but I couldn't imagine that car any other way. Wouldn't exactly want to take my strong hand off the wheel to shift under full acceleration, if you get my meaning.

Edit: I own a manual now, and learned to drive on one. But I don't drive one, at the moment.

 

[Dritnul]

I took one at the cost of 1 or 2 MPG
BECAUSE ITS FUN

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

When you buy a manual is it still about a grand cheaper than an automatic?

I could care less about gas mileage in my manual. I'll sacrifice mileage if it means I can enjoy my commute a little more.

In a manual you are "forced" to be alert of your surroundings, what your car is doing, and where you should be in terms of gearing, and anticipating up ahead. Not that I'm saying people don't already do that in automatic, but you're just that much more alert.

In this day and age where the computer controls many things in our lives already, it's just nice to have that sense of control and power whenever you feel you want it or need it.

I like the idea that if and when I'm climbing a hill on the freeway or passing a vehicle in a two-lane two-way highway I'm getting every ounce of power, and keeping it there, at will and not have to cross my finger and hope a couple seconds later after I mash the pedal it will downshift and keep it there. Because by the time the automatic decides to downshift, the opportunity to pass may already have passed me by.

Some factor the resale value of a vehicle based on what tranny it has in it. With an automatic sports car there might be a smaller market of potential buyers, and possibly lesser resalue value just because it's an automatic.

 

[CFster]

What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

 

[kamikaze27]

Why do women wear a bra and not a piece of bubblewrap?

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

I've driven 2 of them. I had a Nissan Murano for a week recently as a loaner car and my wife rented a Ford 500 about a year ago after she mashed in the driver's door on my Maxima. I didn't like them...not one bit.

BTW-I don't like the new Maxima and I wouldn't buy one. The new Maxima is a porker and I just don't like the look of it. My Maxima is the last of the 5th generation Maxima and I actually prefer it to the new one. I checked out the new Altima but discounted it immediately because of the CVT...not that I would buy one anyway. I'm looking to hang onto my Maxima for a few more years and possibly pick up a Lotus Elise in the next year or so.

I wasn't defending CVTs in general, just the one in the new Altima. Basically:

Originally posted by: psteng19

Try a new 2007 Nissan CVT (Altima, Maxima, Versa, Sentra).
It's an updated CVT with less rubber band feeling to it.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: freebee
I don't like them. All the people that posted above have never driven a truly powerful auto tranny car. "Control" is not necessary when you have torque. Drive a high horsepower/torque motor with quick shifting auto. ie MB E55 (now E63, etc).
These cars are like space ships. They don't need to downshift to pass, there is no lag or hesitation. There is no "appropriate" gear. Every gear will blow your pants off.

My Oldsmobile was like that. It'd spin the tires in 3rd at 60mph if I stepped on it hard, and it Just Went. God I miss that car. Oh yea, it had a shift kit on the turbo350 "slush" box that'd outshift the best manual driver in this thread.

There are very very few cars in which the automatic transmission is faster than a well driven manual of the same make and model. Your oldsmoboat isn't one of them...assuming you could even get it with a manual transmission.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

BS.

Anytime you let that clutch pedal out there's wear happening. Unless you're good enough to properly rev match EVERY shift - good luck with that.

Now that you're doing it twice as much, because you're downshifting all the time, you get twice the wear.

But it's all moot, because it's not like the engine is going to slow you down faster than the brakes anyway. I mean why bother. People who drive standards for that reason think they're race car drivers.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

BS.

Anytime you let that clutch pedal out there's wear happening. Unless you're good enough to properly rev match EVERY shift - good luck with that.

Now that you're doing it twice as much, because you're downshifting all the time, you get twice the wear.

But it's all moot, because it's not like the engine is going to slow you down faster than the brakes anyway. I mean why bother. People who drive standards for that reason think they're race car drivers.

Actually yes, most of is do properly rev match. Heel and toe baby.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

BS.

Anytime you let that clutch pedal out there's wear happening. Unless you're good enough to properly rev match EVERY shift - good luck with that.

Now that you're doing it twice as much, because you're downshifting all the time, you get twice the wear.

But it's all moot, because it's not like the engine is going to slow you down faster than the brakes anyway. I mean why bother. People who drive standards for that reason think they're race car drivers.

Actually yes, most of is do properly rev match. Heel and toe baby.

I don't bother. Certainly not on the street that's for sure.

And I've driven my fair share of fast cars. Never crashed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

BS.

Anytime you let that clutch pedal out there's wear happening. Unless you're good enough to properly rev match EVERY shift - good luck with that.

Now that you're doing it twice as much, because you're downshifting all the time, you get twice the wear.

But it's all moot, because it's not like the engine is going to slow you down faster than the brakes anyway. I mean why bother. People who drive standards for that reason think they're race car drivers.

I said fully engaged or disengaged. Obviously there is wear when starting from a stop and downshifting (slightly if you aren't good at rev matching) because you have some slippage of the clutch in those circumstances.

What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile. Yeah, I'd rather use my brakes...that always amuses me when I hear people say that because it's just plain wrong and exactly the opposite of what they teach you in driver's ed.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

Yeah, I'd rather use my brakes...that always amuses me when I hear people say that because it's just plain wrong and exactly the opposite of what they teach you in driver's ed.

Yeah, why in the world would you want to use your brakes to stop?

 

[RedArmy]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

I've done my own clutch job on my Honda and it cost me a total of about 150 dollars for a brand new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. It's wicked easy to do once you can unbolt the tranny. When we got the clutch replaced for the Honda at another place it was 300 dollars for everything.

Edit: Also, I try to use the brakes as little as possible when I'm driving around. Down shifting and rev matching is easy enough and you're only using the clutch for the second that you're shifting.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: RedArmy

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

I've done my own clutch job on my Honda and it cost me a total of about 150 dollars for a brand new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. It's wicked easy to do once you can unbolt the tranny. When we got the clutch replaced for the Honda at another place it was 300 dollars for everything.

That's nice. Except most people don't replace their own clutches.

Hmm, lets see - just looked up the book rate for a clutch on...say an '02 Civic (oh btw, that's what I do for a living). The book gives 3.6hrs to do the disc. At an average shop labor rate of $79/hr, that's $284 labor. Not much left for parts.

I call shens on the $300 at a repair shop. Must be the "my brother's buddy's shop" special rate.

Again, not a real world number.

By the way, how do you drive your car that you have had to do TWO clutches?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

Yeah, I'd rather use my brakes...that always amuses me when I hear people say that because it's just plain wrong and exactly the opposite of what they teach you in driver's ed.

Yeah, why in the world would you want to use your brakes to stop?

You said, "Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate." I assumed by that statement that you use your brakes exclusively and that you never downshift and use engine braking. That's what I was responding to...was I mistaken or did you already forget what you said?

 

[RedArmy]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: RedArmy

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

I've done my own clutch job on my Honda and it cost me a total of about 150 dollars for a brand new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. It's wicked easy to do once you can unbolt the tranny. When we got the clutch replaced for the Honda at another place it was 300 dollars for everything.

That's nice. Except most people don't replace their own clutches.

Hmm, lets see - just looked up the book rate for a clutch on...say an '02 Civic (oh btw, that's what I do for a living). The book gives 3.6hrs to do the disc. At an average shop labor rate of $79/hr, that's $284 labor. Not much left for parts.

I call shens on the $300.

By the way, how do you drive your car that you have had to do TWO clutches?

Because one was for the old engine that was in it...then I took that engine out and put a bigger one in . The reason it's so cheap is probably because I go to a Honda place run by a guy who does everything by himself. I drive a CRX as does he, so I feel safe bringing it there.

Another Edit: Probably for the fact that I drive a CRX is why it's so cheap. Simplest motor set up ever.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What does a new clutch and throwout bearing cost anyway? I've never had to replace a pressure plate BTW. A couple hundred dollars? A few hundred max? Hell even if it costs $500 assuming your clutch lasts 75,000 miles (which is very reasonable to expect a clutch to last) it would cost you about half a penny per mile.

$500 or more for your average clutch job - especially if it's a front driver. I've never had to replace a clutch on any car I've owned, I can tell you that. I'm 38 and have owned a few too.

I find it much cheaper to throw a set of brake pads on every now and then.

Yeah, I'd rather use my brakes...that always amuses me when I hear people say that because it's just plain wrong and exactly the opposite of what they teach you in driver's ed.

Yeah, why in the world would you want to use your brakes to stop?

You said, "Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate." I assumed by that statement that you use your brakes exclusively and that you never downshift and use engine braking. That's what I was responding to...was I mistaken or did you already forget what you said?

Yeah that's what I said. Must have taken your statement wrong.

Anyway, I do downshift, but almost never use engine braking. Usually as I'm decelerating I downshift so I'm always in the proper gear to accelerate from any given speed.

 

[Sureshot324]

If you actually like driving, get a manual. If a car is just a tool to get you from A to B, you probably wouldn't enjoy a manual anyway, so get an auto.

But if you get a releltively old car, go with a manual so you don't have to worry about the transmition dying requiring a $2000 rebuild.

 

[ponyo]

Automatic saves me time and allow me to be more productive. That translates into shorter working hours and more money in my pocket.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

When engine braking, you downshift. Unless you can somehow rev match perfectly, with robotic precision, it slips. And downshifting through all those gears puts wear on a lot more than just the clutch...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: CFster
What are people talking about here when they say "control"?

What can you do with a standard that you can't accomplish with an automatic?

And the dorks who rev match while downshifting can stay quiet.

Have you ever driven a manual? You have so much more control over the vehicle, especially towing, and in hilly country, and towing in hilly country It's a different world i tell ya.

I own several.

As for towing, I've driven many tow trucks in my day, and most were automatics.

I'm curious what makes you think you have more control over a vehicle with a standard trans vs. auto.

If you say you can use the engine to help slow the car by downshifting spare me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than a new clutch disc and pressure plate.

There is no wear on a clutch disc or pressure plate when it is fully engaged or disengaged as in zero, zip, nada. The cost per mile of replacing a clutch is very very low on manual transmission cars assuming the driver knows how to properly drive it.

When engine braking, you downshift. Unless you can somehow rev match perfectly, with robotic precision, it slips. And downshifting through all those gears puts wear on a lot more than just the clutch...

Please, the amount of stress put on the drivetrain during engine braking is nothing compared to the stress of accelerating. Again, I've been driving sticks for decades and never noticed any greater wear on other drivetrain parts (driveshaft, differential, u-joints etc.) between a stick and an automatic.

Downshifting is something I may do once or twice when approaching a stop light simply because I like to be in the correct gear in case I need to accelerate or when going downhill to keep from riding the brakes. If done properly the additional wear on the clutch/drivetrain is miniscule and not even worth mentioning...certainly not worth worrying about or counting fractions of a penny over.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
so all I'm getting out of it is a 'control' issue that people seem to have. I'd rather be able to focus on the road ahead of me and have 2 hands on the wheel at ALL times

You've obviously never even driven a manual.

Psh. I agree with Accipiter22. Far too much dicking around in cars these days. Inattentiveness is at an all time high.

It's very possible I've driven manual transmissions more miles than the last 3 posters.

I love my auto trans car.