My dear eakers and 0sully. Please allow me to voice my thoughts in this matter.
<< ITS NOT A BAD PLACE.
Then you claim that bad things happen at good places? If it's a good place, then why did this bad thing specifically happen to you?
With your judging of the computer-glued "some" who you claim need to get out in something you seem to think is the "real world", I don't think I agree with your righteous indignation. Now let's see if we can figure out why you felt this way. There's something there, I think. Something Moonbeam tried to show you awhile back but you still don't see.
Pav <--- Cheers ! >>
thats like saying cuz i got food posioning at kfc its a bad place.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're referring to. I said that I understood your claim of the event as "bad" while the activity and place was "good". My problem and point of discontinuity occured at a lack of understanding how something bad can happen in a good place. and that's why I asked why bad things happen to good people or at good places. I did not say if something is bad, it is a bad place. If I were a logician, I would call what you just did the fallacy of affirming the consequent. Again, can you please explain, I have trouble understanding these things and your analogy seems to be fallacious, although I may have misinterpreted it.
<< If I was a girl and my bf couldn't or wouldn't defend me in a fight situation I would have serious doubts about dating a guy that couldn't fight........ >>
i find that statement interesting and i want to get more girls opinon on this. maybe its just my bleeding heart liberalness that doesnt want to see anyone hurt.
My dear eakers, I love you. Now let's see why you started this thread, I'm still confused.
i am not complaining about this guy being a jackass to me but rather the way that people think violence and threatening it is cool and the way to impress people.
Well you did say that originally.. But you used a personal example and some later comments by other members made me a little confused what we were discussing.
So are you saying that violence is unacceptable at all times? And what about self-defense? I think I understand the need for few people to be hurt, but hurting is part of living. Knowing how to deal with hurt and resolving it seems to be the better solution. And when I see you posting here, I see a similar pattern.
1)Experience
2)Recognition
3)Reflection
4)Posting on ATOT
5)lack of clarification
6)Indignation
7)Defense
8)Frustration
it's this last one I'm interested in... why?
*kat. <-- flamebait.
<< Then you claim that bad things happen at good places? If it's a good place, then why did this bad thing specifically happen to you? >>
Most of you in here definitely have the notion that clubs = evil sex cauldrons. Although the stories are getting worse and worse as clubs, I suppose, go "mainstream", there's nothing inherently evil about going to a place where you can dance to music you life for a couple of hours...is there?
The other option is to what, sit home and play Yahtzee instead? Sounds pretty defeatist to me (you p*ssies).
. Now I may be wrong, but I think even though this clever ambiguous language diffused intent, that post was directed at me. And I also think you are getting emotionally involved here given your cursing. I again reiterate the neutrality of my post as a qualifier. Your reaction signals to me some value you hold dear since that seemed to be a trigger point and you are normally very calm, and content, despite your misleading avatar. Why exactly are you rationalizing your actions or misinterpreting my posts? Am I just that unclear?
What exactly is going on here...
Cheers !
<< ITS NOT A BAD PLACE.
Then you claim that bad things happen at good places? If it's a good place, then why did this bad thing specifically happen to you?
With your judging of the computer-glued "some" who you claim need to get out in something you seem to think is the "real world", I don't think I agree with your righteous indignation. Now let's see if we can figure out why you felt this way. There's something there, I think. Something Moonbeam tried to show you awhile back but you still don't see.
Pav <--- Cheers ! >>
thats like saying cuz i got food posioning at kfc its a bad place.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're referring to. I said that I understood your claim of the event as "bad" while the activity and place was "good". My problem and point of discontinuity occured at a lack of understanding how something bad can happen in a good place. and that's why I asked why bad things happen to good people or at good places. I did not say if something is bad, it is a bad place. If I were a logician, I would call what you just did the fallacy of affirming the consequent. Again, can you please explain, I have trouble understanding these things and your analogy seems to be fallacious, although I may have misinterpreted it.
<< If I was a girl and my bf couldn't or wouldn't defend me in a fight situation I would have serious doubts about dating a guy that couldn't fight........ >>
i find that statement interesting and i want to get more girls opinon on this. maybe its just my bleeding heart liberalness that doesnt want to see anyone hurt.
My dear eakers, I love you. Now let's see why you started this thread, I'm still confused.
i am not complaining about this guy being a jackass to me but rather the way that people think violence and threatening it is cool and the way to impress people.
Well you did say that originally.. But you used a personal example and some later comments by other members made me a little confused what we were discussing.
So are you saying that violence is unacceptable at all times? And what about self-defense? I think I understand the need for few people to be hurt, but hurting is part of living. Knowing how to deal with hurt and resolving it seems to be the better solution. And when I see you posting here, I see a similar pattern.
1)Experience
2)Recognition
3)Reflection
4)Posting on ATOT
5)lack of clarification
6)Indignation
7)Defense
8)Frustration
it's this last one I'm interested in... why?
*kat. <-- flamebait.
<< Then you claim that bad things happen at good places? If it's a good place, then why did this bad thing specifically happen to you? >>
Most of you in here definitely have the notion that clubs = evil sex cauldrons. Although the stories are getting worse and worse as clubs, I suppose, go "mainstream", there's nothing inherently evil about going to a place where you can dance to music you life for a couple of hours...is there?
The other option is to what, sit home and play Yahtzee instead? Sounds pretty defeatist to me (you p*ssies).
. Now I may be wrong, but I think even though this clever ambiguous language diffused intent, that post was directed at me. And I also think you are getting emotionally involved here given your cursing. I again reiterate the neutrality of my post as a qualifier. Your reaction signals to me some value you hold dear since that seemed to be a trigger point and you are normally very calm, and content, despite your misleading avatar. Why exactly are you rationalizing your actions or misinterpreting my posts? Am I just that unclear?What exactly is going on here...
Cheers !
it's called testosterone
Hi Nocturnal, I'm sorry but you are wrong here in attributing this phenomenon to hormonal causes... there is a weak correlation but no more implications of causality. Testosterone, according to current studies, does not cause aggression or violence but it does lower the inhibition of violent behavior.
The real causes are yet unknown, although there are many competing theories... some of which I agree with.
Cheers !
Hi Nocturnal, I'm sorry but you are wrong here in attributing this phenomenon to hormonal causes... there is a weak correlation but no more implications of causality. Testosterone, according to current studies, does not cause aggression or violence but it does lower the inhibition of violent behavior.
The real causes are yet unknown, although there are many competing theories... some of which I agree with.
Cheers !
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,086
- 32,615
- 146
<< So are you saying that violence is unacceptable at all times? And what about self-defense? >>
This query concerning her personal philosophy is illogical, self-defense is a reaction to violence which if violence were eschewed, as she proposed, self-defense would not be necessary. Furthemore linuxboy, I've read many of your posts in the past and I've found you to be a rational, logical person, who is usually affable as well. So, my question to you is, why does it appear that your going out of your way to pick on her?
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
When drunk people can behave very stupidly, (stupid people when drunk can become even more stupid). Could you have answered the "is he your boyfriend?" question by telling the jerk the truth?
"No he is not my boyfriend. Please leave along!"
"No he is not my boyfriend. Please leave along!"
kami
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 17,627
- 5
- 81
<< some of you need to get out into the realworld and away from the computer on a saturday night.
>>
yeah well pissing money away on booze and dancing while lessening your hearing cause of the loud music isn't some people's idea of a good time
don't get me wrong, i love to party and hate being bored on a saturday night, but i'm not the type who goes out to a bar/club every weekend and blows $40 or more on alcohol to have a good time. with that $40 i can buy almost 2 cases of beer and have a blast with my buddies several times going to a bar is like a once a month type of thing for me, just a waste of money but fun sometimes if you can find a place that doesn't play crappy music. 
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Back. I had some mopping to do.
<< Now I may be wrong, but I think even though this clever ambiguous language diffused intent, that post was directed at me. And I also think you are getting emotionally involved here given your cursing. I again reiterate the neutrality of my post as a qualifier. Why exactly are you rationalizing your actions or misinterpreting my posts? Am I just that unclear? >>
Oh, well, I don't think I caught on to this:
My problem and point of discontinuity occured at a lack of understanding how something bad can happen in a good place. and that's why I asked why bad things happen to good people or at good places. I did not say if something is bad, it is a bad place.
My mistake. If you didn't know, it sounded like you were saying "You were in that bad place, what did you expect?"
<< Your reaction signals to me some value you hold dear since that seemed to be a trigger point and you are normally very calm, and content, despite your misleading avatar. >>
Re: The avatar...I just like blue. Oh, and the bulging eyes are silly.
If there was ever to be an ATOT Constitution drafted, under Rants, it would probably say:
The ranter is granted the right to set forth his or her own emotional views upon a subject with the expectation that he or she will be responded to in turn solely on the basis of this one post. In short, the scope of replies are expected to be defined to within the limits of the present thread alone. Leave history out of it.
You cannot have a rant without there being emotion involved. eakers has never gotten the benefit of this hypothetical right - the pretty girl shouldn't be allowed to whine, or at least be shown sympathy if she does. And anyone showing sympathy is obviously just trying to get into her good graces.
That kind of standpoint annoys me. And it's clearly what many posters in this thread have done. In my opinion, anyone who does this sorely needs to grow up.
Edit: Lousy quotes tags!
<< Now I may be wrong, but I think even though this clever ambiguous language diffused intent, that post was directed at me. And I also think you are getting emotionally involved here given your cursing. I again reiterate the neutrality of my post as a qualifier. Why exactly are you rationalizing your actions or misinterpreting my posts? Am I just that unclear? >>
Oh, well, I don't think I caught on to this:
My problem and point of discontinuity occured at a lack of understanding how something bad can happen in a good place. and that's why I asked why bad things happen to good people or at good places. I did not say if something is bad, it is a bad place.
My mistake. If you didn't know, it sounded like you were saying "You were in that bad place, what did you expect?"
<< Your reaction signals to me some value you hold dear since that seemed to be a trigger point and you are normally very calm, and content, despite your misleading avatar. >>
Re: The avatar...I just like blue. Oh, and the bulging eyes are silly.
If there was ever to be an ATOT Constitution drafted, under Rants, it would probably say:
The ranter is granted the right to set forth his or her own emotional views upon a subject with the expectation that he or she will be responded to in turn solely on the basis of this one post. In short, the scope of replies are expected to be defined to within the limits of the present thread alone. Leave history out of it.
You cannot have a rant without there being emotion involved. eakers has never gotten the benefit of this hypothetical right - the pretty girl shouldn't be allowed to whine, or at least be shown sympathy if she does. And anyone showing sympathy is obviously just trying to get into her good graces.
That kind of standpoint annoys me. And it's clearly what many posters in this thread have done. In my opinion, anyone who does this sorely needs to grow up.
Edit: Lousy quotes tags!
This query concerning her personal philosophy is illogical, self-defense is a reaction to violence which if violence were eschewed, as she proposed, self-defense would not be necessary. Furthemore linuxboy, I've read many of your posts in the past and I've found you to be a rational, logical person, who is usually affable as well. So, my question to you is, why does it appear that your going out of your way to pick on her?
I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that little non-sequitur. However, read onward. My objection was directly to her personal philosophy of non-violence at all times and its consequences as a worldview. The query concerning a philosophy is not illogical (whose logic?) if it is maladaptive as a whole. Self-defense CAN be a reaction to violence. I also then questioned if the elimination of violence was at all possible in stating that it's certainly desirable but given the failures of many past attempts, very unlikely and so the resulting solution of acceptance and coping would perhaps be beneficial and provide with greater stability. I still wonder what caused her to post. And if a personal philosophy proves inadequate for coping, questioning it is not illogical. So I must respectfully disagree with your objection since I find many things that seem irrelevant at first often prove to be very relevant in the progression of conversation.
Why am I going out of my way here? Another good observation, I normally don't get this involved. I think I've demonstrated why I think my approach is logical now let me tell you exactly what my motivation is. I don't think the behavior points to completely healthy internal dynamics or stress diffusors. They're pretty good and I realize behaviors do not necessarily imply mental states, but they're all I have here so I must make some assumptions that have proven to be accurate in the past. In short, something ain't right. Humpty dumpty fell off the wall. I feel frustration being demonstrated here, by more than one person. I can be wrong since information is limited but I don't currently think so. And so, I do go out of my way, not really to pick, but to first understand, reflect, and attempt to discover by sharing.
I appreciate the comments here but I don't think they are really accurate. At least they don't seem that way to me.
Cheers !
I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that little non-sequitur. However, read onward. My objection was directly to her personal philosophy of non-violence at all times and its consequences as a worldview. The query concerning a philosophy is not illogical (whose logic?
) if it is maladaptive as a whole. Self-defense CAN be a reaction to violence. I also then questioned if the elimination of violence was at all possible in stating that it's certainly desirable but given the failures of many past attempts, very unlikely and so the resulting solution of acceptance and coping would perhaps be beneficial and provide with greater stability. I still wonder what caused her to post. And if a personal philosophy proves inadequate for coping, questioning it is not illogical. So I must respectfully disagree with your objection since I find many things that seem irrelevant at first often prove to be very relevant in the progression of conversation. Why am I going out of my way here? Another good observation, I normally don't get this involved. I think I've demonstrated why I think my approach is logical now let me tell you exactly what my motivation is. I don't think the behavior points to completely healthy internal dynamics or stress diffusors. They're pretty good and I realize behaviors do not necessarily imply mental states, but they're all I have here so I must make some assumptions that have proven to be accurate in the past. In short, something ain't right. Humpty dumpty fell off the wall. I feel frustration being demonstrated here, by more than one person. I can be wrong since information is limited but I don't currently think so. And so, I do go out of my way, not really to pick, but to first understand, reflect, and attempt to discover by sharing.
I appreciate the comments here but I don't think they are really accurate. At least they don't seem that way to me.
Cheers !
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
wow some of you amaze me. you sound like some guys who is trying to justify rapeing a women because she was dressed sexy.
ohwell on with the topic of the post. I personally seem to be the target of men like these. I am 5'6" so they think im easy picking. But my dad was a boxer and he tought me how to fight, and my step-father is a black belt in judo and i spent about 9 years in hop-ki-du. So needless to say i can handle myself in most situations.
I enjoy fighting in the ring. But in real life i prefer to just try to talk my way out. If i hurt a drunk i can go to jai and getting called a p*ssy is not worth my going to jail.
I still enjoy going to bars and watching the silly drunks try and pick up women. Its rather funny when one gets turned down and calls the women a slut or lez heh.
ohwell on with the topic of the post. I personally seem to be the target of men like these. I am 5'6" so they think im easy picking. But my dad was a boxer and he tought me how to fight, and my step-father is a black belt in judo and i spent about 9 years in hop-ki-du. So needless to say i can handle myself in most situations.
I enjoy fighting in the ring. But in real life i prefer to just try to talk my way out. If i hurt a drunk i can go to jai and getting called a p*ssy is not worth my going to jail.
I still enjoy going to bars and watching the silly drunks try and pick up women. Its rather funny when one gets turned down and calls the women a slut or lez heh.
You cannot have a rant without there being emotion involved. eakers has never gotten the benefit of this hypothetical right - the pretty girl shouldn't be allowed to whine, or at least be shown sympathy if she does. And anyone showing sympathy is obviously just trying to get into her good graces.
Well... I questioned the nature of this right before realizing this was an open forum so I must agree. Although I don't think I'll go as far as saying that anyone showing sympathy is motivated by a desire for acceptance since this is not knowable in a situation like this. I also disagree with your idea of not bringing in previous knowledge, especially if an attempt is made to diffuse the energy that goes into making a rant post.
That kind of standpoint annoys me. And it's clearly what many posters in this thread have done. In my opinion, anyone who does this sorely needs to grow up.
I also agree with this, but don't think I can make this claim since I don't have enough information.
wait, so do we actually disagree on anything important? So far I agreed in part but clarified my own views while stating that some claims I can't make and also getting my point further across to avoid misunderstandings... So ... eakers, m'dear, you have yet to respond. Oh and the buldging eyes ARE quite funny now that I look at 'em. They look so sad though...
well Cheers !
Well... I questioned the nature of this right before realizing this was an open forum so I must agree. Although I don't think I'll go as far as saying that anyone showing sympathy is motivated by a desire for acceptance since this is not knowable in a situation like this. I also disagree with your idea of not bringing in previous knowledge, especially if an attempt is made to diffuse the energy that goes into making a rant post.
That kind of standpoint annoys me. And it's clearly what many posters in this thread have done. In my opinion, anyone who does this sorely needs to grow up.
I also agree with this, but don't think I can make this claim since I don't have enough information.
wait, so do we actually disagree on anything important? So far I agreed in part but clarified my own views while stating that some claims I can't make and also getting my point further across to avoid misunderstandings... So ... eakers, m'dear, you have yet to respond. Oh and the buldging eyes ARE quite funny now that I look at 'em. They look so sad though...
well Cheers !
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,086
- 32,615
- 146
<< So I must respectfully disagree with your objection >>
then
<< Another good observation >>
Just attempting to affirm that both were observations, not objections
Your correct in pointing out that it is indeedmy logic that makes your query seem illogical, and after you provided a decidedly more comprehensive explaination of your rationale for such a query, I concur that fromyour philosophical veiwpoint which is as valid as mine or anyone else's, your query isn't illogical. << I appreciate the comments here but I don't think they are really accurate. At least they don't seem that way to me. >>
Precisely, it is merely a matter of difference in philosophies which do not agree on certain principles, and one does not invalidate the other, nor does an adherence to one make it more correct for anyone other than you or myself, agreed?
<< I do go out of my way, not really to pick, but to first understand, reflect, and attempt to discover by sharing. >>
That was the reason for my query to you as well.
<< I feel frustration being demonstrated here, by more than one person. I can be wrong since information is limited but I don't currently think so >>
This is the only other observation you've made that seems presumptuous from my perspective. It suggests to me that your relying upon your empathic sense(feel) while attempting to intellectualize that sense(think) which ,from my perspective, is presumptuous in the context defined as-impertinently forward or confident. As I've stated this is my perspective and by no means do I expect that yours will coincide with mine and is stated solely in the spirit of interchanging ideas/philosophies
you know, i have to say i stopped going clubbing for the reasons kat mentioned, as well as kami. the last time i was at a club it was in central america, where the guys think they own you. total stranger came up to me one time and starts dancing with me, then he put my hand on his waist. this guy was pretty slick, as the next thing i know he had slid my hand onto his hard on and this grossed me out. i caught the eye of one of my male buddies and i told my rico sauve dance buddy, 'oh there's my bf' and he was like, 'oh i'm sure he won't mind sharing you'...so as i turned around he put his hand on my waste and wouldn't let me go...well something told me to put my hand down where his was, and the f@#$er had unzipped my pants. i got away from him and basically mumbled i was going back to my 'boyfriend' and it wasn't up for debate.
but it happens all over the world too; i've come across my fair share of guys who can't fathom why a girl dressed up to go clubbing simply goes there to dance and enjoy herself. instead they start rubbing up on you, trying to grope you, etc...
the way i look at it, i now refuse to pay for an outrageous admission and drinks, and in return get 'rewarded' with no room to dance, guys who think they own me, stinging eyes from all the smoke, and deafened ears.
but it happens all over the world too; i've come across my fair share of guys who can't fathom why a girl dressed up to go clubbing simply goes there to dance and enjoy herself. instead they start rubbing up on you, trying to grope you, etc...
the way i look at it, i now refuse to pay for an outrageous admission and drinks, and in return get 'rewarded' with no room to dance, guys who think they own me, stinging eyes from all the smoke, and deafened ears.
<< ?
this rant was about people who get all violent and think its cool
im not bitching that someone hit on me.
oh and i bring it on myself? oh yeah i forgot im eakers, i deserve to be beaten.
*kat. <-- :| >>
They probably think its cool to be violent and threaten people cause they don't have enough of a brain to try to impress a girl any other way. I'd agree a guy that thinks that is a way to impress someone is a loser, I'm more than confident I can defend myself but I still haven't picked a fight in my life.
Generally a guy like that... I'd just tell him to piss off if I was you, the only mistake might be just to keep talking to him in the first place.
Stop saying that eakers brought this on herself. Thats just as bad as saying that women are sex objects/they deserve to be sexually harrassed if they wear clothing type x/etc.
Don't blame guys being jerks on the women.
Don't blame guys being jerks on the women.
<< linuxboy: just wanted to tell you....your starting to become my hero! >>
Mine too, and I just might kick your ass because you're not good enough for him.
<<
<< linuxboy: just wanted to tell you....your starting to become my hero! >>
Mine too, and I just might kick your ass because you're not good enough for him. >>
Where is all this hostility coming from?
<<
<< Where is all this hostility coming from? >>
My point exactly. Case closed. >>
Sure, confuse me and then don't explain yourself
linuxboy = eakers
Nate = freaky boy at club (although he tries to avoid it)
Jero = fake boyfriend
Nate = freaky boy at club (although he tries to avoid it)
Jero = fake boyfriend
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