Why do Americans think the Democrats are left wing?

[Locut0s]

What exactly would stop a country with a non capitalist economy from doing the exact same thing? If it's in their economic interest they will do it, regardless of whether they are capitalist or not...

The Soviet Union fucked up Afghanistan when they invaded. Obviously communism is evil since it makes war and hurts people!

Well for one you are comparing right wing (US) with WACKO FUCKED UP left wing (USSR). You are completely leaving out the political mirror image (modern left wing democracies). At any rate you are the one who said that capitalism doesn't do these things. Now you are saying it does, but what stops others from doing them?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Ok yes I'll give you that, depending on the sector.

BTW what's it like living in PR? I know and love the tropic in general, lived in Malaysia for a year. As a resident of PR though you must feel very separate from the US in many ways, given that you are an unincorporated territory. Must have it's ups AND downs. To be honest aside from loving to tropic I know little of central america. I visited Belize this past summer and loved it but that was more of a Snorkelling trip.

We have many beaches and tourist attractions and the weather is hot year-round. Many of the typical foods are great. Infrastructure ranges mostly from classic to very modern depending where you go. We pay higher shipping (well, except for USPS since it's a domestic service) but the same for the items themselves. Many roads suck (as in there's holes in them) because of bad construction. Apart from that, it's pretty similar to the US. Both main political parties are crap and are the equivalent of the US Republican and Democratic Party, and the Republican party won the last elections (much to our dismay). People are largely stupid like in the US, only they speak Spanish. Christianity is the by-far most dominant religion, and there's tons of fundamentalists. We have mainstream stores like Best Buy, Walmart, Walgreens/CVS and fast food places like McD's and Wendy's,

It's the US, in a tropical island.

There is no real argument here. Both LOL_Wut_Axel and I agree on most everything. Captialism IS the best mechanism we have of creating wealth, raising the standard of living and bringing a country out of poverty. It's also one of the best mechanism we know of for creating needles inequality, creating poverty, raping the environment, fucking people over, starting wars, and more. It's the balance of the two that we must get right. I'm on the side of more regulation, not less. I'm not for removing capitalism as a whole at all.

Couldn't really agree more with this. Capitalism has its pros and cons, and by putting more regulation (but not too much so) we still have innovation and competition, plus we eliminate the problems of corporations abusing of their power.

 

[schneiderguy]

Well for one you are comparing right wing (US) with WACKO FUCKED UP left wing (USSR). You are completely leaving out the political mirror image (modern left wing democracies). At any rate you are the one who said that capitalism doesn't do these things. Now you are saying it does, but what stops others from doing them?

The comparison is completely valid. You're saying that capitalism causes x, y, and z, yet a country without an ounce of capitalism in it does x, y, and z. Your thesis is incorrect.

HUMAN NATURE causes those things. Blaming capitalism is ridiculous.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

OK, but a lot of them don't. Saying that there is no "left wing" in the US government is completely ridiculous.

For the most part there's not. It's mostly right, but not on the far-end of the spectrum.

 

[Sonikku]

Liberal or progressives feel that the government is the answer to every problem. The democrats and our president share this view.

It's extremes and generalizations like this that seem to be the norm in America these days. Why is it so hard for some of us to believe in some government? Why is it always a question of whether I'm for no government and no regulation or I'm for large, insurmountable overbearing government controlling everything?

Is it truly so terrible paying money to the government that does not always necessarily directly impact me in some positive way? Why should I have to pay property taxes so the nations youth can have an education? I'm not in grade school. Why can't their parents just pay for them to go to private school instead? I have an income that allows me to buy whatever book I want from amazon. Why do I have to be forced to pitch in towards keeping the public library open?

Why should I have to pay taxes that go towards the upkeep of the roads for everyone else? I don't use all of them when getting around. My house has not ever been on fire. Why should I have to pay so someone else can have the benefit of a local fire department to help put out a house fire? For that matter, why should I have to pay so other people can have health care and stay healthy? It's not my fault healthcare costs and insurance have nearly doubled in the last decade while wages for 70% of America have stayed the same or gone lower. Why can't poor people who get sick just keel over and die? Why should I have to give up a dime of my income for someone elses sake?

You see what I mean?

Of course not.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

The comparison is completely valid. You're saying that capitalism causes x, y, and z, yet a country without an ounce of capitalism in it does x, y, and z. Your thesis is incorrect.

HUMAN NATURE causes those things. Blaming capitalism is ridiculous.

The problem is unregulated capitalism. Most corporations will do anything in their power to make more money, no matter the means. We see this almost every day.

Remember that the only point is returning a profit to their stockholders.

 

[Locut0s]

The comparison is completely valid. You're saying that capitalism causes x, y, and z, yet a country without an ounce of capitalism in it does x, y, and z. Your thesis is incorrect.

HUMAN NATURE causes those things. Blaming capitalism is ridiculous.

No I'm saying capitalism with strong but not crazy regulation does MUCH less of this. You skipped over the counties that I'm referring to (mainly European counties, the Nordic countries and others).

 

[Locut0s]

It's extremes and generalizations like this that seem to be the norm in America these days. Why is it so hard for some of us to believe in some government? Why is it always a question of whether I'm for no government and no regulation or I'm for large, insurmountable overbearing government controlling everything?

Is it truly so terrible paying money to the government that does not always necessarily directly impact me in some positive way? Why should I have to pay property taxes so the nations youth can have an education? I'm not in grade school. Why can't their parents just pay for them to go to private school instead? I have an income that allows me to buy whatever book I want from amazon. Why do I have to be forced to pitch in towards keeping the public library open?

Why should I have to pay taxes that go towards the upkeep of the roads for everyone else? I don't use all of them when getting around. My house has not ever been on fire. Why should I have to pay so someone else can have the benefit of a local fire department to help put out a house fire? For that matter, why should I have to pay so other people can have health care and stay healthy? It's not my fault healthcare costs and insurance have nearly doubled in the last decade while wages for 70% of America have stayed the same or gone lower.

You see what I mean?

Of course not.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[tm37]

Let's see here: abortion, drugs, immigration, government spending, foreign policy (see military), and many others. Just at the top of my head.

Abortion - Left wing and members of the democratic party not only think it should be allowed but that it is a right (meaning the government should provide it should you be unable to provide for yourself)

drugs - on the drug front both parties will be center right (drugs are bad) and the difference is how you deal with the problem. Dems think the government should provide treatment and that treatment should be dictated by the government.(this is left)

Government spending - you have got to be kidding on this.

Foreign Policy - the democrats feel we should have a smaller military and that we should try and be friends with people at all costs.

immigration - the is where the democrats or completely liberal looking at the definition of rights. The left in this country believe that once you step foot in the country you have rights to things like education, health care, jobs, regardless how you got here. If you came illegally sorry you have the right to a bus trip home.

 

[ericlp]

Because compared to the Republicans they are left wing.

WRONG...

OP is right... Not right winged like you are...

The REAL reason?

Because we have a TWO party system. You get to choose between two idiots. A right wing NUT job that the professor wants you to vote for ... or half assed nut job that you gotta pick from the lesser of the Evil.

The only real left is Third Part....Period.

 

[tm37]

It's extremes and generalizations like this that seem to be the norm in America these days. Why is it so hard for some of us to believe in some government? Why is it always a question of whether I'm for no government and no regulation or I'm for large, insurmountable overbearing government controlling everything?

Is it truly so terrible paying money to the government that does not always necessarily directly impact me in some positive way? Why should I have to pay property taxes so the nations youth can have an education? that is not all it covers but I should have more say in how that tax money is spent I'm not in grade school. Why can't their parents just pay for them to go to private school instead? I have an income that allows me to buy whatever book I want from amazon. Why do I have to be forced to pitch in towards keeping the public library open? you would be surprised the amount that is spent on libraries it is very low

Why should I have to pay taxes that go towards the upkeep of the roads for everyone else? I don't use all of them when getting around. this should be paid on a tax on cars that use the roads and gas taxes as well My house has not ever been on fire. Why should I have to pay so someone else can have the benefit of a local fire department to help put out a house fire? you should not have to to For that matter, why should I have to pay so other people can have health care and stay healthy? you should not have to pay for others health care It's not my fault healthcare costs and insurance have nearly doubled in the last decade while wages for 70% of America have stayed the same or gone lower. the cost have gone up due to litigation and improvements in health care that cost money Why can't poor people who get sick just keel over and die? Why should I have to give up a dime of my income for someone elses sake?

You see what I mean?

Of course not.

what you are saying is that I am saying anarchy is the way to go. but there is a difference of opinion on the role of government and conservatives (true conservatives and not the pinheads on TV and radio) feel governments role should be limited by law (which in many regards it is) and that sometimes bad things happen and that is too bad.

Think of it this way - There is a charity to help take care of people when bad things happen and all of a sudden the money you donate starts getting used to buy the head of that charity a new car, and it is a really extravagant car, and you don't like that. You can stop giving money to it.

Or for me I believe that abortion is wrong. In the charity sense I can choose to give money to an organization that assists unwed mothers and when abortion becomes something they start preaching to them I can stop paying them.

When the charity is the government I can no longer do that.

 

[tm37]

For the most part there's not. It's mostly right, but not on the far-end of the spectrum.

If you are saying we are closer to Jimmy Carter as opposed to Marx you are correct in saying that the government is to the right end of that spectrum.

However if one side is anarchy and the other is marx we are to left.

 

[Siddhartha]

They aren't. The US doesn't have a serious left wing voice on capital hill, aside from maybe a person here or there. They have right of centre, right, and crazy screaming rabid hyena right. My own politics are what I'd consider left to left of centre. There are lots and lots of people farther left than me and while they may not have a lot of representation in govenment here, there is at least the sense that there is representation even out that far left. For the mainstream left, and centre left there is quite a lot of representation. And I'm not talking about having separate left wing political parties, voting in MPs (senators, members of congress whatever title they may have) is all the representation I mean. Like I said I know there are a few voices here and there in the US that ARE liberal/left in this sense but from a global perspective they are extremely underrepresented. For example we currently have a majority conservative government, and fairly conservative at that (at least from a global point of view) and yet the major opposition party is the NDP (a party with many views to the left of my own).

It always stuns me when people in the US get riled up about the liberal media, the left wing this, the left wing that. There IS no left wing to talk about for the most part. You are kidding yourself if you think Obama is anything but a centrist, and right of centre on a lot of things.

QUESTION FOR THOSE OF YOU HERE LIVING IN THE US WHO SELF IDENTIFY AS LEFT WING: Do you agree with the above assessment or not?

The same reasons they call Mr Obama a Nazi, Communist, a Socialist, a Corporatist, etc. They are and have been demonizing their polictical opponents by calling them names no matter if the labels are correct or not.

The Civil Rights Movement and the Viet Nam War killed or at least severely disrupted the Left\Liberal political movement in the US. 40 years ago, Mr Nixon\Mr Agnew and Mr Reagan officially nailed the coffin and buried the movenment.

 

[tm37]

The same reasons they call Mr Obama a Nazi, Communist, a Socialist, a Corporatist, etc. They are and have been demonizing their polictical opponents by calling them names no matter if the labels are correct or not.

The Civil Rights Movement and the Viet Nam War killed or at least severely disrupted the Left\Liberal political movement in the US. 40 years ago, Mr Nixon\Mr Agnew and Mr Reagan officially nailed the coffin and buried the movenment.

OK to say that all right leaning people think that Obama is all of those things is just a generalization and the main problem with the right side of the political spectrum is those delivering the message are idiots. Both side demonize there opponent and to say it only occurs right to left is just silly.

Civil rights are at the peak to the point that if you are in a protected class you get special treatment.

If I interview two people if they are white and male I can disregard them for no reason BUT if they are an ethnic minority, openly gay, female, or any other protected class I have to explain exactly why I did not hire them to meet EOE regulations, even if i hire someone who is in the protected class.

 

[Siddhartha]

OK to say that all right leaning people think that Obama is all of those things is just a generalization and the main problem with the right side of the political spectrum is those delivering the message are idiots. Both side demonize there opponent and to say it only occurs right to left is just silly.

Civil rights are at the peak to the point that if you are in a protected class you get special treatment.

If I interview two people if they are white and male I can disregard them for no reason BUT if they are an ethnic minority, openly gay, female, or any other protected class I have to explain exactly why I did not hire them to meet EOE regulations, even if i hire someone who is in the protected class.

The OP asked why people think the Democratic Party is left wing or liberals. That is the question I was answering that in post.

Your description of the Civil Rights movement as a discrimination against the majority is a great example of what I was writing about.

 

[tm37]

The OP asked why people think the Democratic Party is left wing or liberals. That is the question I was answering that in post.

Your description of the Civil Rights movement as a discrimination against the majority is a great example of what I was writing about.

So it is OK to be discriminated against IF you are in the Majority .

That is where The left and democrats in general fail to see that life can not be fair and we should try to have rules for everyone person. If you look for injustice then you will find it.

I am for civil rights and think everyone should have the same opportunities based on who they are and not what they are. When you are forced to look at race then it becomes an issue for those of us that do not want to look at race. Civil rights means that you will not be held back because of race. I am all for that. I am not for limiting people to prop up others because of a math problem.

 

[Siddhartha]

So it is OK to be discriminated against IF you are in the Majority .

That is where The left and democrats in general fail to see that life can not be fair and we should try to have rules for everyone person. If you look for injustice then you will find it.

I am for civil rights and think everyone should have the same opportunities based on who they are and not what they are. When you are forced to look at race then it becomes an issue for those of us that do not want to look at race. Civil rights means that you will not be held back because of race. I am all for that. I am not for limiting people to prop up others because of a math problem.

In your insistence that the Civil Rights movement was about the discrimination of the majority proves my point about how the US Left\Liberal movement has been disrupted.

 

[tm37]

In your insistence that the Civil Rights movement was about the discrimination of the majority proves my point about how the US Left\Liberal movement has been disrupted.

My point was that where it started and where it ended are two completely different things.

The solution did not fix the problem either.

if anything I would say the left has gone to the left and not to the center.

The civil rights movement was about equal rights for all. Now it is about math.

 

[Siddhartha]

My point was that where it started and where it ended are two completely different things.

The solution did not fix the problem either.

if anything I would say the left has gone to the left and not to the center.

The civil rights movement was about equal rights for all. Now it is about math.

Compared to current GOP, you might be able to say the Democratic Party is left wing. But compared to the US political map of the 1960's the current Democratic Party is right of Richard Nixon.

 

[Ausm]

cause faux news said so

We have a WINNAR :whiste:

 

[Ausm]

Compared to current GOP, you might be able to say the Democratic Party is left wing. But compared to the US political map of the 1960's the current Democratic Party is right of Richard Nixon.

In the next election cycle Grover Norquist wouldn't pass a Republican purity test

 

[Anarchist420]

Being more left-leaning than extremely right-wing doesn't make you left-wing.

Oh wait, I'm replying to PJ.

Professor John isn't a true conservative. He's pro-foreign interventionist, he doesn't sincerely oppose the welfare state, and he doesn't sincerely oppose the regulatory state. He thinks the budget was balanced when Gingrich (who himself is a liberal new dealer and anti-states' rights) was in Congress. He also wants taxes he deems fair more than he wants low or no taxes.

He goes against every principle of the Old Republicans (states' rights). John Randolph of Roanoke, Robert A Taft, Larry McDonald, and Dr. Paul are the true conservatives of the Old Right school, not today's Republican Party.

 

[Anarchist420]

The Democratic Party is 3rd Way economically, although it's left of center/neoconservative in other ways, such as favoring an interventionist foreign policy (especially the U.N.), the 14th Amendment, abortion, etc. If it was 100% liberal, it would advocate a repeal of the regulatory state and just advocate a redistributive state through a progressive wealth tax and it would favor reducing the income tax.

 

[Craig234]

Liberal or progressives feel that the government is the answer to every problem.

95% of what's said here about liberals is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

You just showed how you don't understand liberals.

 

[Craig234]

OK to say that all right leaning people think that Obama is all of those things is just a generalization and the main problem with the right side of the political spectrum is those delivering the message are idiots. Both side demonize there opponent and to say it only occurs right to left is just silly.

Civil rights are at the peak to the point that if you are in a protected class you get special treatment.

If I interview two people if they are white and male I can disregard them for no reason BUT if they are an ethnic minority, openly gay, female, or any other protected class I have to explain exactly why I did not hire them to meet EOE regulations, even if i hire someone who is in the protected class.

Clueless. First, the civil rights movement is overwhelmingly about removing discrimination - something you don't say a word about. Not convenient for your bias.

Second, the little bit that could be called 'special treatment', almost entirely affirmative action, is based on the lingering inequality of past discrimination.

It's like having one ball team beating the crap out of the other team's pitcher all game, and then in the 6th inning saying 'ok, now that wrong is ended, you go pitch'. Gee, think the injuries might make the 'equal' new situation less than equal? Affirmative action is something people like you have no idea about - it's based on equality not happening because of the contiuning effects of generations of discrimination. It brings equality.

You don't see affirmative action where the identified groups are doing better than the 'white males'. So you are a shameless whiner, wanting to keep your stolen loot.