Bzzzzznt!! Oh, so sorry, that is incorrect sir! The vast majority do not pay into the system because they work for cash! I don't know how it is where you are, but here in California, you can find day laborers hanging out on various street corners waiting for someone to drive by and offer them work for the day. And that's fine. I would say that the vast majority of them are hard working folks. My problem is that they are here illeagally, and all us tax payers have to foot the bill for their health care and kids education. I say let immigration happen! I have no problem with honest, hardworking folks from other countries coming over here, but do it leagally so they too can pay into the system and make it work the way it should!
Capitalism, do you use it? I'm not sure what country you're from but feel free to spend out of your pocket a little more, I think the us is already sufficiently generous with my wallet.
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,461
- 4
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Must be a California thing because all of the illegals here tend to work with industries that require social security numbers. I had forgotten that parts of California are still agrarian. The only people to blame are those that employ them. If they didn't exist then there would be no latino day laborers and they would work in industries like they do here.
I'm from Texas, and there are many immigrants that work for cash (DFW), but there are many that work for large and small employers.
If they have a fake SS# registered with their employer, then they pay federal taxes and don?t even get a refund.
If they live in an apartment, rented house or own their home then they pay school and county taxes built into their rent and/or mortgage payment.
If they buy goods and services then they pay city and state sales taxes, that fund police, fire, and general state services.
Right, but even in your states situation as you describe it is wrong. Whether or not it's a day laborer in the field or a factory worker, they are illeagal and should not be here in the first place! And I agree that the companies that employ them as such should be delt with. But let's face it; what benefits from "the system" are those illegals getting that, say, have taxes taken out under a phoney SSN? I think all of us would agree that we will never see any Social Security money when we retire and it would be miniscule at best. So it dosen't matter, then. They get some "tax" money taken from their pay, but still get free health care from the state and free education for their kids. Not a bad deal, eh?
I love it when people who oppose immigration say "they take our jobs!" Yeah..they are taking the jobs noone else wants to do. "They dont pay taxes!" So what? There are plenty of legal people that don't pay taxes, or cheat, or don't pay enough ..ie..those people in that upper..upper tax bracket. Eventually their children will turn into tax paying citizens, and productive members of society. Maybe they want to move here...to get a BETTER LIFE? Novel concept. Im sure thats what all of our ancestors moved here for, was a better life (excluding native american folk.)
see post above.
If they pay rent to an apartment or rental property, then their rental payment pays school taxes for their kids education just like every other "renter" kid.
nothing is free, not even for an illegal immigrant
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,461
- 4
- 81
How is it any different than what the English and Spaniards did to the indiginous people. Hell, as far as I'm concerned you are all illegals. They are doing menial jobs that takes jobs away from those that would not do them anyways(low income ... welfare recipients) They are contributing more to America than some of those already here.
Would you rather have an illegal Mexican who will bust his hump everyday or some trailerpark trash welfare recipient? The problem is not with illegals, it's with all those lazy fvcks who refuse to do the jobs that Mexicans are willing to do.
But they still get to "sidestep" lots of rules and regulations that we all have to follow. The point is, is that because the US has so many programs that help the "down and out" it becomes so easy to exploit the system and get so much for free if you fit the makeup, namely, minority, poor, lots of kids, no health insurance, just to name a few. And those programs are well and good! But they are so flawed with who can benefit from them that it puts the burden for funding these programs on the backs of hardworking, follow-the-rules types of us citizens or legal greencard folks. It's just not right!
NPR ran a story last year that showed most / some illegals, if they had a chance to become legal, would mostlikely not because they were already doing so well given that they were not paying taxes, had county/state healthcare, etc. Sorry, I don't remember the exact spin on it, (anyone else? correct me if I'm wrong?) but they interviwed one man who fell into this catagory. Made me mad as hell, because here it is I'm bustin my butt to pay my fair share, and he and his family are riding for free.
I agree! I think that there are too many lazy ass US citizens here as well. Again, I'm not saying that these people don't work hard! They do! And I think that's fine. I don't like the way the system here benefits them more by being here illeagally. Let's all not forget the point: THEY ARE ILLEAGALLY IN THIS COUNTRY! (Not shouting loudly, just making a point
) I would *love* for them to all come over here as they are mostly hard working, probably good people! Better than some of the trash in this country that was born here! Just do it LEAGALLY! Follow the law like the rest of us. Or most of us. Yes, I know that there are those that screw the system by cheating on their taxes. It still does not justify or change the point of what is being said. Good dialog! Your points are well taken!
i suppose it depends on what state you live in.
in Texas state services are paid with sales taxes and fees.
local services are paid with school and county property taxes.
they may skate fed taxes, but they would end up getting more money back due to
1. a tax refund
2. earned income credit
personally i would support a unified north america with an open border with mexico and canada, but that day will never come.
just my .02
I have no problem with that! Let them come over! Most of them work harder than some of us! Just don't sneak across the border to do it!
Well, CA is pretty screwed up. I know that the state gives lots of handouts for those that are "down and out" which is good; however, people rape the system.
My wife is a 2nd grade school teacher in CA. She has one little boy in her class that comes to school and is on the "free breakfast and lunch program" given to those students who's family income is at the impoverished level. When mom comes to pick him up from school, she always pulls up in a brand new, big, fully loaded Lincoln Navagator! Hmmmmmm......somthing wrong with the system, no?
I agree with this completely.
Also...I would like to add a statement from a game.
"You've ruined your own lands, you will not ruin mine"
Why must you leave your land and come to mine? For jobs, for resources, for a chance at a better life. What about the people who are already here. They want jobs, resources, and a better life. When you immigrate here you take up a slot for one of those people. You'll notice that American's arn't rushing to immigrate out of America.
Edit: I also recently came across a list of countries that foriegner's are not allowed to get jobs in. As in your are not allowed to immigrate there and get a job. Based on that...I don't wanna hear anything bad about americans complaining about immigration. Our government takes care of it and they are the american people. We american's like to complain. But we still work hard and get the job done. And immigration is allowed, our borders arn't closed, And Yes, You can have a job here.
Enjoy the American Dream if you can.
Xenophobia, and thanks to American arrogance, immigrants are seen as inferior and satisfy the need for someone to hate.
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Legalize it and tax itOriginally posted by: LemonHeadLOL Well Said!
Well.....you got a point!
Originally posted by: LemonHead
LOL Well Said!
oh, the law just got changed so you can have a $50,000 car and still get welfare.
Probably they are ashamed of the fact that most of them are in America because their ancestors were migrants as well. Many were illegal at that.
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