lol...what are you talking about? we allow our unelected administration to pass self-restraining laws such as the patriot act.. wave your flag proudly because this "democracy" is unstoppable. (Imagine a senator voting against a bill titled the "patriot act") roar tiger roar... and while your under the impression that our system is fool proof, look up the "october surprise" kthxbye.
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
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Actually, it isn't an opposite to democracy. It is very much opposed to a republic, however, which is what we have.
However, one area where the reality of communism and any democratic system differ (bad grammer, I know, don't be a nazi about it) is individual freedom. Primarily economic freedom. It is very important to us that a person can have his life swept away by a few bad decisions and circumstances. It is also important that a person can rise above others. Communist nations, USSR and China being shining examples, went entirely against this. It was not important that a person be educated well and become a rounded worker and intellectual with economic and social mobility. You did something, and you became good at it. That was all.
On the positive side, and kinda odd, racial and sexual prejudice were and are practically nil. However, instead of there being a nice bell curve of economic and social standing...there's workers who get crap, and leaders who get everything.
China has been gradually changing for quite some time, but nobody quite knows what it will become.
btw..it might sound like i'm a big supporter of communism after reading my last few posts...but i'm really not.
i'm just shocked to see so many people spread misinformation as fact. i really lose more and more faith for the average intelligence of people with each passing day. And this community is supposed to be the "cream of the crop" heh.
i'm just shocked to see so many people spread misinformation as fact. i really lose more and more faith for the average intelligence of people with each passing day. And this community is supposed to be the "cream of the crop" heh.
oh god. read the rest of his post...pplz. the entire last part of his response didn't even make any sense. now...calm your so-called "compassionate" conservative self down and put aside the shield -- no one is infringing upon your right to support fellow idiots.
it's a result of frustration.... besides i don't appreciate it when the smarta$$ elderly call the rest of us stupid for not fully understanding a principle which was never even implemented in our generation, meanwhile naive enough to be manipulated by our current administration.. boy i'm sure glad i don't have to worry about mr. hussain no'more
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Communism HAS been fully implemented. It's been tried over and over again and each time with disastrous and deadly results. The problem is, it can NEVER be the idealistic system Marx and others envisioned. When the people give up their rights, they leave them open to being taken over by the first and cruelest dictator to come along.
It is quite entertaining to me that the left spent the 40s, through the 80s pretending the USSR and communism was not evil, just different. Then they spent the 90s denying the USSR was communism.
ok let's not get into technicalities -- but i wasn't alive to see communism implemented in epic proportion. you'll have to excuse me on that. A person in high school writing a paper regarding communism is most likely 16-18. He'd be approximately 3 years old near the end of the cold war. anyway none of this matters... i was just defending the OP's lack of knowledge regarding communism...because the MAJORITY of people who were in their 30's at the time couldn't even remark coherently on the principles of communism.
now step back a moment. i'm not trying to disrespect your intelligence whatsoever.. i get frustrated easily.. in fact i've read what you had to say and agree to an extent. the criticism towards the left... ehh not so much. anyway, have a nice day.
edit: i'll shut up now cause i want the OP to get the info he was seeking
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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That's the thing about the varied, and always disasterous attempts at communism. NO ONE truely knows exactly what happened until the countries fell, or enough people defected to form a coherent story. In nearly all cases the first thing the leaders of such countries did was close their country to all outside objective viewers. We didn't know half the horrble things the USSR did until they fell.
Communism is not something you had to live during to know about. Knowing the disaster that is communism is to either experience it first hand, or learn through history.
So no, one does not need to have lived in or been coherent during the first and second half of the 20th century to understand the horrors of communism. One simply needs to study the subject from objective sources.
yea, that's true. I'm not saying that it's impossible to comprehend the principles of communisim had you not lived in that era. Studying the subject (using "non-revisionist" history sources) even at brief could get you a wealth of information. I'm merely criticizing HappyPuppy for accusing the OP for his lack of education...when HappyPuppy and his generation are responsible for our horrible education system. Besides, i doubt many people have taken the initiative to fully understand what is happening globallly at the moment, rather events which took place 80-20 years ago.
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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And remember that ALL sides are equally guilty of history revisionism. Not just the sides you disagree with.
When I was liberal, I decried the right wing history revisionism. As I became educated, I saw the left wing did it just as much, if not more than the right did.
That's when I became a truly independent thinker, both politically, and philosophically. While I could be called a libertarian, I don't even follow the party line of the organized libertarians.
I like to call myself "classically liberal." Not only does it fit, but it confuses the hell out of people.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Pers
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
If you think our current government is "fascist," you need a history lesson even more than the OP.
The USSR fell because their oppressive socialist system could not support their military build up, not because of the buildup itself.
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
If you think our current government is "fascist," you need a history lesson even more than the OP.
The USSR fell because their oppressive socialist system could not support their military build up, not because of the buildup itself.
at this point.. we need to just set aside our differences and move on. cause quite frankly... me and you.. we'll never agree.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,434
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Originally posted by: Pers
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
If you think our current government is "fascist," you need a history lesson even more than the OP.
The USSR fell because their oppressive socialist system could not support their military build up, not because of the buildup itself.
at this point.. we need to just set aside our differences and move on. cause quite frankly... me and you.. we'll never agree.
You may be surprised. I too disagree with many things the current admin has done. But to call them, or our current government "fascist" fringes on lunatic fanaticism in and of itself. You destroy all credibility and thus render your argument null and void.
It would be the same if a right winger labeled every left winger a "communist."
Rhetoric loses the debate in the mind of logical people, every time.
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
If you think our current government is "fascist," you need a history lesson even more than the OP.
The USSR fell because their oppressive socialist system could not support their military build up, not because of the buildup itself.
at this point.. we need to just set aside our differences and move on. cause quite frankly... me and you.. we'll never agree.
You may be surprised. I too disagree with many things the current admin has done. But to call them, or our current government "fascist" fringes on lunatic fanaticism in and of itself. You destroy all credibility and thus render your argument null and void.
It would be the same if a right winger labeled every left winger a "communist."
Rhetoric loses the debate in the mind of logical people, every time.
wow i actually am surprised because i find myself agreeing with you more and more. I understand the importance of crediblity ...yet i've realized that no matter what... over a message board, you don't have much credibility to begin with. So i really don't hesitate to insult/and generalize so much
maybe it's due to immaturity? anyway... the emotions i have towards bush and has posse of thugs couldn't be expressed in words i'd feel comfortable using over the internet since ashcroft is probably tuning in
Although you may consider me to be loony and outrageous - i stand steadfast and adamant about my fascist claim edit:
i'm not calling every right winger a fascist...i'm merely suggesting the bush affiliated ones are. aka neo-conservatives
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,434
- 19,858
- 146
Originally posted by: Pers
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Pers
edit: i don't know what's worse...the attrocities of communism...or the attrocities caused by our current fascist regime which believes military spending should be top priority. What was the last superpower to focus the majority of their spending on military? I'll give you a hint. we've been talking about them a lot in this thread. And what was the cause of their collapse? a weak economy because they spent everything on weapons. well at least i have the satisfaction of knowing some rich weapon company shareholder is getting richer as we speak. and why do i have that satisfaction? because that shareholder is an AMERICAN. yes.. god bless the US even if it means the death of innocent people and the future of our children.
If you think our current government is "fascist," you need a history lesson even more than the OP.
The USSR fell because their oppressive socialist system could not support their military build up, not because of the buildup itself.
at this point.. we need to just set aside our differences and move on. cause quite frankly... me and you.. we'll never agree.
You may be surprised. I too disagree with many things the current admin has done. But to call them, or our current government "fascist" fringes on lunatic fanaticism in and of itself. You destroy all credibility and thus render your argument null and void.
It would be the same if a right winger labeled every left winger a "communist."
Rhetoric loses the debate in the mind of logical people, every time.
wow i actually am surprised because i find myself agreeing with you more and more. I understand the importance of crediblity ...yet i've realized that no matter what... over a message board, you don't have much credibility to begin with. So i really don't hesitate to insult/and generalize so much
anyway... the emotions i have towards bush and has posse of thugs couldn't be expressed in words i'd feel comfortable using over the internet since ashcroft is probably tuning in
Hey, that's your right. But realize that by expressing yourself that way, you lend more help to your opposition than to those you support.
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