yes because if the moon men resisted .. they'd be terrorists too.
all im saying is .. if your not with US or PRO US .. you're a wimp / terrorist, by US definitions.
BeauJangles
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2001
- 13,941
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: CPA
WTF?
Heh.
uhh the communist scare existed before Russia emerged as the world's only other superpower. Democratic nations were generally afraid of communism because it is, in many respects, completely the opposite of capitalism. Our own ideology (manifest destiny, blah blah) was / is to spread democracy throughout the world. Thus we feared communism because IT TOO wanted to spread throughout the world. Then, on top of that, a few individuals (namely Macarthy) used the situation and their own beliefs to push the country into a communist scare.
How do you get things you want but don't need in communisim..Since there is no money. I need to read up on communism.... I'm ig no r ant.
Nikamichi
Diamond Member
- Nov 21, 2003
- 7,759
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Because they eat babies, and put floride in our water to make us weak-minded.
You'll never see a communist drink pure, clean water!
Wrong. The Soviets were Stalinist. Communist nations are about as real as the women in Maxim. OP, you may want to look at the constitution and the government's ability to restrict first amendment rights as a possible starting point. If I remember correctly the doctrine is "Clear and Present Danger," meaning that it is possible to abrogate rights if it is necessary to protect the existence of those rights in the first place.
In a Communist society, everything is property of the state, including you. Communism is directly opposed to the ideas of freedom and personal liberty that our forefathers envisioned and our soldiers died to protect in World War II.
Well, the Chinese border more on totalitarian than 'Communist,' if you even know what the word actually means. I swear, Marx is rolling in his grave...
yes. one of the main reasons was, communists feared the revolution into democracy and the US feared its people would revolt and establish communism. vice versa, yes, it is.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,424
- 19,839
- 146
[sigh]
If you think only the "rich" have to fear collectivism and the complete loss of individual freedom and rights, you have a LOT to learn.
Want to know why we feared and loathed communism? Look at the great purges of Stalin. The mass murder of Pol Pot. Look at North Korea today. Actually LOOK at how these people live(d). Communism is responsible for far more murders than Hitler... more meaning by factor of 10 or more.
Communism is not simply the collectivization of goods and services. It is the complete loss of freedom and all rights. All men become subservient to the state and servile. Communism is not the liberation of the common man, it is the enslavement of the common man. Who did Stalin target first when he collectivized the farms and businesses of the USSR? The rich? NO. He committed mass murder on the middle class and intellectuals.
While McCarthy was a zealot, and his means an abomination of our constitutional system, he was not totally incorrect. Stalin and his successors had a VAST spy network in the US. Many people in their rush to (rightly so) condemn McCarthy for his tactics tend to discount this proven fact. They do so in defiance of history.
After the fall of the USSR the release of KGB files divulged simply shocking facts about how deeply communist spies and agitators had penetrated our government and public institutions. For years many people held on to the claim that many of those convicted of treason were innocent. The release of the KGB files proved that incorrect. The most publicized case was the case of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.
In short, you need to READ and learn more than just what your teachers tell you, and political activists preach to you. Do the main thing people aren't allowed to do under communism...think for yourself.
This is the simplest explanation.
The poor and lower classes fear(ed) communism because they felt they'd never have an opportunity to have more than they already do. There ARE opportunities for the poor to move up the social ladder here in the USA, if one has the will and ability to do so. And that is NOT dependent on "who you know" except in the lamest cases.
Middle classes will lose quite a bit of stature and power in a communist/socialist/stalinist soceity, along with the opportunities to move up.
Upper classes are more complex. On one hand they fear losing the money and power they currently enjoy. On the other hand, only the aristocratic families really have anything at risk. CEOs and such would still be powerful people in a communistic soceity. Instead of dollars, they'd have perks and dachas and such. But the fear of change and the fact that the environment that MADE them powerful would be gone are important considerations.
You see a lot of this in anti-government types here in the USA. They fear losing personal liberties to the government. Heck, I fear this myself. I was born lower class and have moved myself into middle class strictly by my work ethic and the fact that I have a talent that's in demand that I could leverage. Again, opportunities for anybody with the will and ability.
If I lived in the USSR I'd be a factory menial. My son would be a factory menial. I couldn't imagine allowing that to happen to my family and my descendants. So I fight any encroachment on my rights with determination and, yes, fury. For fear that in the next few generations the USA will be indistinguishable from the USSR.
killface
Golden Member
- Aug 17, 2001
- 1,416
- 0
- 0
In short, as many have said above me: We like our stuff. We like having two cars in the garage, protected by our remote controled garage door openers, etc. Also, as has been previously stated, being a christian nation, we like our gods too. Communism doesn't like people to have a god.
That being said, communism has never been a direct threat to the US. In fact, at the height of the cold war, the CIA completed a study which basically said: If the USSR was in a war with India (not very powerful at the time) it would have about a 50/50 chance of winning. So, basically, the cold war was largely a scam. There are a number of reasons why the American people were tricked into believing there was more of a threat than actually existed, but many think it was a way of boosting the economy and keeping it going. Basically, some believed that fear kept people consuming.
[michael moore]Sound familiar?[/michael moore]
That being said, communism has never been a direct threat to the US. In fact, at the height of the cold war, the CIA completed a study which basically said: If the USSR was in a war with India (not very powerful at the time) it would have about a 50/50 chance of winning. So, basically, the cold war was largely a scam. There are a number of reasons why the American people were tricked into believing there was more of a threat than actually existed, but many think it was a way of boosting the economy and keeping it going. Basically, some believed that fear kept people consuming.
[michael moore]Sound familiar?[/michael moore]
Good one.
MadCow,
Good responses, except it wasn't democratic nations that feared Lenin/Stalin Socialism, it was indeed the ruling class in Europe, who at that time were still mostly monarchy.
Marx argued more against Capitalists, vice Capitalism. At least that's what I got out of the Communist Manifesto. In order to understand that, you need to read up on the working conditions for most people, in Marx's time, in Europe. And the abuses by land and factory owners.
Lenin/Stalin made no bones about wanting to take power from the Csar and Duma and given to themselves. Marx's thoughts (heavily massaged by them) were just a vehicle to them to get where they wanted.
A reasonable person would have to say that "The Communist Threat" was indeed used as a big bad enemy. Most Americans in the 50s and 60s, even the lower middle class, had far better living conditions than the intended audience of the Communist Manifesto. The gap between rich and poor in the US in the 50s and 60s on a monetary level might have been big, but on a practical day to day level, was not nearly as bad as turn of the century Europe. (Not even remotely close)
Therefore, I could not see how it could gain appeal in America. So the actual threat small, the propaganda big.
And finally, the USSR was never Communist, or even a real Socialist, country!
References available upon request
A reasonable person would have to say that "The Communist Threat" was indeed used as a big bad enemy. Most Americans in the 50s and 60s, even the lower middle class, had far better living conditions than the intended audience of the Communist Manifesto. The gap between rich and poor in the US in the 50s and 60s on a monetary level might have been big, but on a practical day to day level, was not nearly as bad as turn of the century Europe. (Not even remotely close)
Therefore, I could not see how it could gain appeal in America. So the actual threat small, the propaganda big.
And finally, the USSR was never Communist, or even a real Socialist, country!
References available upon request
that's pretty much dead-on... not that I devoted 4 years of my life to studying sociological theories or anything
there was only one time in the US that one could argue there might have been reason to be afraid of socialism/communism -- the 1930's, after the great depression began, and pre-WW2 and FDR.
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
I am now officially and confirmed terrified for the future of the democratic Western World. What the hell has our educational system come to?
lol...shut up. seriously. most americans today are scared of the middle east and don't know why. when you're constantly fed propaganda...lies...etc. you become confused and allow your emotions to get the best of you. Much is the same with how the US decided to represent communism. Many of you Americans cry about the education system. How about you tell the republicans running the country to cut back on military spending and invest in our education system. We couldn't compete with third world countries in terms of labor anyway.
ironically as the old and senile look down on the younger generation...they are completely naive about current events. Start pointing the finger at your intelligence, and give the rest of us a break. btw, thanks for "liberating iraq"... your grandchildren can be as stupid as you are now
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