Why California needs Proposition 8..........

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bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Originally posted by: bsobel
The burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.
Actually it's not. The burden is on the person making the claim. See, I can say that 100% of your posts for fully of hatred for others. It would be up to me to prove that, not you to prove me wrong. Same point here.
Let me re-word that for you then..... Burden of "disproof". (of his stats).

Yours needs proving themselves, actually. (and by your own words, no?)

Franks' exact words from an article he wrote. Please show where *any* connection is shown between these two points:

"Nine European nations have had same-sex marriage since the early 90s?and just 2 percent of same-sex couples in these countries ever bother to marry, NOTE: HINT THIS IS WHERE THE FALSE CONNECTION IS STATED while there has been a 46 percent increase in out-of-wedlock births. Same-sex couples simply do not marry in significant number when given the legal right to do so, while more heterosexual couples will not bother to get married before having children. (NOTE: PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW ALLOWING SAME SEX MARRIAGE CAUSS HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES TO NOT GET MARRIED BEFORE HAVING CHILDREN. In these nations, 70 percent of all births now take place outside of marriage, and among first-time mothers, 80 percent are unmarried. Same-sex marriage will result in fewer total marriages and more children born out of wedlock." <-- FALSE CONCLUSION, NO FACTS STATES SUPPORT THIS OPINION.

You need to make the connection that Frank's stats have....."zero" correlation.
Thats easy, he simply quoted two numbers and provided no connection. Any reasonable person reading that paragraph sees that.

In his paper Frank goes on to say:

"The combined effects of the pill, condom distribution, abortion on demand, no-fault divorce and the acceptance of illegitimacy have been socially and economically devastating. Half of all American marriages now end in divorce. One-third of all American children are now born outside of marriage"

So, he's really blaming the pill, condoms, abortion, and no fault divorce. But since it served his purpose, he's tried to claim its the allowance of gay marriage. He can't have it both ways, yet he's on the record claiming both.


 

ICRS

Banned
Apr 20, 2008
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi
http://vimeo.com/1978711 If you don't watch all of it, at least watch the first 8 minutes.

Frank Pastore has worked very hard to get the truth out to people. Now available online.

Others, including Miles McPherson (former San Diego Charger) and Tony Perkins (FRC.org) on www.yeson8.info

:thumbsup:
We should have special camps for bigots like you. The world would be a better place with you all gone.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
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Repugs are crapping in their boots.

Their pillars of hate and misdirection are crashing down on their disbelieving little heads.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: seemingly random
Repugs are crapping in their boots.
Their pillars of hate and misdirection are crashing down on their disbelieving little heads.
Another biogt. I'm a republican, I'm against 8. So stop presuming you know people when you dont.

 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
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Who the fuck is a bigoted jackass like you to piss on all of their lives? There is NO excuse for it. FUCK ALL BIGOTS! :thumbsdown: :|
It's a shame you can't prove your point without the name calling. Even when your right you water down the importance of your message with your tirades.

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Originally posted by: bsobel
The burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.
Actually it's not. The burden is on the person making the claim. See, I can say that 100% of your posts for fully of hatred for others. It would be up to me to prove that, not you to prove me wrong. Same point here.
Let me re-word that for you then..... Burden of "disproof". (of his stats).

Yours needs proving themselves, actually. (and by your own words, no?)

You need to make the connection that Frank's stats have....."zero" correlation.
WTF? I don't see ANY logic at all in thinking that allowing gay marriage ends up increasing the numbers of single-parent families. It doesn't even make sense, it's a totally ridiculous claim.

And asking people to prove that it is wrong is totally asinine.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
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Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: microbial
First 8 minutes: this guy made less logical sense than Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber put together...
Yeah, I don't get it at all. How in the hell does legalizing gay marriage increase children born out of wedlock?
lol wat?
Exactly.
 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,463
8
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Originally posted by: bsobel

"Nine European nations have had same-sex marriage since the early 90s?and just 2 percent of same-sex couples in these countries ever bother to marry, NOTE: HINT THIS IS WHERE THE FALSE CONNECTION IS STATED while there has been a 46 percent increase in out-of-wedlock births. Same-sex couples simply do not marry in significant number when given the legal right to do so, while more heterosexual couples will not bother to get married before having children. (NOTE: PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW ALLOWING SAME SEX MARRIAGE CAUSS HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES TO NOT GET MARRIED BEFORE HAVING CHILDREN. In these nations, 70 percent of all births now take place outside of marriage, and among first-time mothers, 80 percent are unmarried. Same-sex marriage will result in fewer total marriages and more children born out of wedlock." <-- FALSE CONCLUSION, NO FACTS STATES SUPPORT THIS OPINION.


He is making some assumptions based on the model given in the other 9 countries. If it doesn't come to pass, then great! If it does, then shame on us for not listening to the statistics.

I can't find where Frank got his exact statistics (I'll e-mail him and see if he'll provide them for me), but here is something I found quickly just googling.......

http://www.narth.com/docs/sweden.html

Again......if even half of those stats are true.......does that make it OK???
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi

And in case you didn't re-read your post before clicking. It is simply full of stuff that has nothing to do with this thread. (aside from you knowing some great gays)
The whole fucking trip to ban gay marriage is 100% bigotry. There is NO justification for it, period.

Furthermore......you definitely *don't* know about me. 'Cuz if you did, you probably wouldn't have said some of the things you've said.
I said I don't know you, and considering your assholiness, I'm glad that's the case. All I said about that is, I know enough very highly successful, very highly accomplished people who happen to be gay that I have no doubt that some of them are brighter and have accomplished more than you... or me, for that matter.

Further still........I have one gay friend, one gay co-worker, one gay uncle.........oh and.........one gay brother.
So, what did your soon-to-be ex-gay friend, co-worker and uncle... and... oh, your one gay brother say when you told them you're a homophobic bigot? :Q

Or are you just jealous because you can't marry your brother? :roll:
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Originally posted by: bsobel

"Nine European nations have had same-sex marriage since the early 90s?and just 2 percent of same-sex couples in these countries ever bother to marry, NOTE: HINT THIS IS WHERE THE FALSE CONNECTION IS STATED while there has been a 46 percent increase in out-of-wedlock births. Same-sex couples simply do not marry in significant number when given the legal right to do so, while more heterosexual couples will not bother to get married before having children. (NOTE: PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW ALLOWING SAME SEX MARRIAGE CAUSS HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES TO NOT GET MARRIED BEFORE HAVING CHILDREN. In these nations, 70 percent of all births now take place outside of marriage, and among first-time mothers, 80 percent are unmarried. Same-sex marriage will result in fewer total marriages and more children born out of wedlock." <-- FALSE CONCLUSION, NO FACTS STATES SUPPORT THIS OPINION.
He is making some assumptions based on the model given in the other 9 countries. If it doesn't come to pass, then great! If it does, then shame on us for not listening to the statistics.

I can't find where Frank got his exact statistics (I'll e-mail him and see if he'll provide them for me), but here is something I found quickly just googling.......
I noticed you skipped the part where he really claimed "The combined effects of the pill, condom distribution, abortion on demand, no-fault divorce and the acceptance of illegitimacy have been socially and economically devastating. Half of all American marriages now end in divorce. One-third of all American children are now born outside of marriage" See how same sex marriage wasn't even mentioned by him?

http://www.narth.com/docs/sweden.htmlAgain......if even half of those stats are true.......does that make it OK???
Oh thats great, now your concerned with the divorce rate of people you don't want to allow to get married in the first place. Seriously, this is how you debate? Post unrelated facts, get shown they are wrong, and then post something completely unrelated to your original point?

To those you haven't followed the link, in short in Sweden MM couples where 1.49x as likely to get divorced as MF couples and FF couples where 2.0x as likely. So he's now saying we shouldn't let them get married to save them from the pain of a divorce later.

Oh, I just noticed your link was to a site that helps 'cure' homosexuals. You really are a complete bigot aren't you? Geez "NARTH upholds the rights of individuals with unwanted homosexual attraction to receive effective psychological care and the right of professionals to offer that care" Really, you really went there? Really?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: microbial
First 8 minutes: this guy made less logical sense than Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber put together...
Yeah, I don't get it at all. How in the hell does legalizing gay marriage increase children born out of wedlock?
lol wat?
Exactly.
Just about as sensible as the HBO commercial "100% of all pedophiles come from public schools. Sorry, but its true." :laugh:
 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,463
8
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Originally posted by: Harvey

Further still........I have one gay friend, one gay co-worker, one gay uncle.........oh and.........one gay brother.
So, what did your soon-to-be ex-gay friend, co-worker and uncle... and... oh, your one gay brother say when you told them you're a homophobic bigot? :Q

Or are you just jealous because you can't marry your brother? :roll:
61% of California is full of bigotry -------->Proposition 22, which was passed in 2000 by an overwhelming margin of 61%, is better known as the California Defense of Marriage Act prohibiting same-sex marriage. Unfortunately, our state judges have overturned the will of the people :confused:

The one gay friend is still single. He actually battles with his homosexuality every day. His lover died back in '98......(someone I also knew).......of AIDS. We're still friends, nevertheless.

The gay coworker has asked me TWICE in the last year whether I could find a nice guy for her. She likens herself to Rosie O'Donnell. Gay, but still likes cute guys.....How DARE she!!)

Uncle lives in AZ now.

Bro lives in New York working for a magazine. We still hug and shake hands at family get togethers.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Originally posted by: Harvey

Further still........I have one gay friend, one gay co-worker, one gay uncle.........oh and.........one gay brother.
So, what did your soon-to-be ex-gay friend, co-worker and uncle... and... oh, your one gay brother say when you told them you're a homophobic bigot? :Q

Or are you just jealous because you can't marry your brother? :roll:
61% of California is full of bigotry -------->Proposition 22, which was passed in 2000 by an overwhelming margin of 61%, is better known as the California Defense of Marriage Act prohibiting same-sex marriage. Unfortunately, our state judges have overturned the will of the people :confused:
Two corrections (I removed your drivel after)

A) 61% of the people who voted, not 61% of Californian's big difference.
B) A primary role of the courts is to ensure laws which are unconstitutional are overturned. You do know people said the exact same thing when mixed race marriage laws were overturned years ago...
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
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Originally posted by: bsobel
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Repugs are crapping in their boots.
Their pillars of hate and misdirection are crashing down on their disbelieving little heads.
Another biogt. I'm a republican, I'm against 8. So stop presuming you know people when you dont.
I thought one of the pillars of the republican party was anti-gay marriage. You don't sound like a true republican.
 

Jschmuck2

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,623
2
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I say this in all honesty:

I wish you the absolute worst in life. I hope that something will come along to change your mind about the utterly ridiculous shit that you believe, but failing that, a severe injury will do.
 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,463
8
81
Originally posted by: bsobel
Oh thats great, now your concerned with the divorce rate of people you don't want to allow to get married in the first place. Seriously, this is how you debate? Post unrelated facts, get shown they are wrong, and then post something completely unrelated to your original point?

To those you haven't followed the link, in short in Sweden MM couples where 1.49x as likely to get divorced as MF couples and FF couples where 2.0x as likely. So he's now saying we shouldn't let them get married to save them from the pain of a divorce later.

Yes, concerned w/ the divorce rate of people for whom I already have an existing model and the knowledge that an increased divorce rate has proven to lead to increase in the decline of my local socioeconomic society.

http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Pu...ons/pubtoptenmyths.htm

http://www.vifamily.ca/library...e_05.html#Consequences
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: redgtxdi

61% of California is full of bigotry
And somehow, you think that excuses your own bigotry? IT DOESN'T! :thumbsdown: :|

Uncle lives in AZ now.
Good thing for you he's at a safe distance. :Q

Bro lives in New York working for a magazine. We still hug and shake hands at family get togethers.
I wonder how long that will last after you tell him exactly how much of a homophobic bigot you are. :roll:
 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,463
8
81
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
I say this in all honesty:

I wish you the absolute worst in life. I hope that something will come along to change your mind about the utterly ridiculous shit that you believe, but failing that, a severe injury will do.
Aside from the fact that your comment couldn't be less prosocial (imho) than anything I said before even ASSUMING that the gay lifestyle is good for society............I'm curious as to why you think that the "shit" I believe is "utterly ridiculous"???

(That's *not* bigotry, right?) ;)
 

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