Why buy OEM computers?

[AU Tiger]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
no the point is he had to replace parts DEll gave him originally, of course the boards take good parts, but if you want them to use them you will pay $$$$$$$$$ and by cool cases I meant cool asthetically....

You don't like the Dimension cases? I would have bought one of these cases OEM if they had been available and the case as a factor in me getting the Dimension.

 

[Ornery]

Why buy OEM computers?

Because you can't build one as cheap! That is one valid reason that has yet to be refuted. There are certain asshats in this thread that are pretty damn thick!

 

[vi edit]

The latest dimension and optiplexes cases are hands down the best cases I've EVER had the pleasure of working on. Push down on two buttons and it opens up like a big clam shell. Very organized, all wires and cables tucked neatly away, everything on rails, and and you can remove just about any part in there in a matter of seconds. Very nice for working on them.

As for the people dissing them - meh...you're always going to have your power users and those with inferior penis size syndrome droning on about how their computer is 9% faster in blah blah blah program.

WHO FSCKING CARES! The $400 Dells that I buy come with more than enough horsepower for what I need them to do, have more than enough disk space for anything I need them to do, have great driver and hardware support, are whisper quiet, and are super simple to work on.

- I don't care about top notch performance
- I don't care about being able to overclock
- I don't want a box that sounds like a 747 taxiing for takeoff
- I want all my drivers to located on one website
- I want one phone number to call for tech support/hardware replacement
- I don't want to dick with the trouble of scouring the 'net looking for the lowest prices and dicking with shipping of 15 different parts and then spending another 2+ hours putting everything together

Bottom line - I don't want to home build anymore

 

[Alistar7]

then dont, buy pre built junk.......

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
then dont, buy pre built junk.......

Please all wise one, explain to me how a Dell using Intel P4 CPU's, Intel Motherboards, ATi Radeon video cards, Maxtor 7200 RPM drives, Samsung CDROMs, Micron PC2100 RDRAM, very nice cases for $400, AND a full bundle of productivity sofware including Window's XP is junk?

 

[RobCur]

I would never be happy knowing i payed more for the same junks/low quality parts that I can buy much cheaper at wholesale price! onboard vga, onboard sound, onboard lan are the lowest quality you can get. heck, if you seperate them into component, they run faster, sound better, and your processor can work much more efficient! See, thats the problem with bargain PC, you pretty much have to toss it out once you upgrade.

Originally posted by: Jzero
Nowadays you can't beat the price and warranty. I can't figure out why to build computers anymore, honestly.

 

[vi edit]

I would never be happy knowing i payed more for the same junks/low quality parts that I can buy much cheaper at wholesale price! onboard vga, onboard sound, onboard lan are the lowest quality you can get. heck, if you seperate them into component, they run faster, sound better, and your processor can work much more efficient! See, thats the problem with bargain PC, you pretty much have to toss it out once you upgrade.

Once again, you people STILL aren't seeing the big picture. You are a super-MINORITY. Most people need a sound card to do nothing other than to make the typical dings, beeps, clicks and whistles associated with windows. Maybe they'll pop a CD in and listen to it on their $15 set of speakers that came with the system. On speakers that cheap, you'll never be able to tell the difference between built in Audio and and a $100 Soundblaster Audigy or whatever is out now.

You guys are no different than the performance nuts that can't/won't accept the fact that 90% of the US population drives automatic vehicles therfore most manufacturers only offer automatics.

Please tell me how you could possibly beat this:

Discounted Price $785.00

Dell Dimension 8250: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.4GHz, Premium Audio, Intg. NIC

Memory: 256 MB PC1066 RDRAM (2 RIMMs)
Floppy Drive: 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive
Hard Disk Drive: 80 GB EIDE Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
Video: 64MB GEFORCE4 MX 420 with TV Out
Modem: V.92 Data/Fax/Voice WinModem
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows XP Home
CD ROM Drive: 48X Max Variable CD-ROM Drive
CD Read-Write Drive: 40X/10X/40X CDRW Drive
Software: Resource CD
Microsoft® WorksSuite 2002
Norton AntiVirus 2002 Software
AOL 7.0/MSN Internet Access
Image Expert Standard Software
Dell Support 2.0
Software
Dell Support 2.0
Misc: QuietKey Keyboard
Shipping Material
Upgrade: Logitech Optical 2-Button Mouse

 

[ddeder]

It may be tough, if not impossible to beat the price of the machine, but sooner or later most users will need support for their machine. Most people would be better off paying a little more for a custom machine from a local computer shop so they don't have to deal with the BS support of Dell, Gateway, HP or any of the big makers. The first time you spend 3 hours on the phone being routed around an automated system you will agree with me...

Also, who wants the crappy software that Dell and the rest bundle with their machines? Who the heck uses Word Perfect Productivity Pack anyway? If they can bundle Microsoft Works 2003 or Office XP at the same price then it would be worth something. Seems to me the rest of the junk they load on the machine (AOL, MSN, Dell utilities, etc...) just gums up the machine and takes up space.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: notfred
Cause they're cheap and work fine and have warranties.

 

[vi edit]

Also, who wants the crappy software that Dell and the rest bundle with their machines? Who the heck uses Word Perfect Productivity Pack anyway? If they can bundle Microsoft Works 2003 or Office XP at the same price then it would be worth something. Seems to me the rest of the junk they load on the machine (AOL, MSN, Dell utilities, etc...) just gums up the machine and takes up space.

It does include works suite 2002. That includes, works 2002, word 2002, MS Money 2002, picture it publisher, streets & maps, encarta, and a bunch of clip art. Not a bad bundle.

 

[ddeder]

Sorry. I wa replying to an earlier post which had a Dell machine for $430 that came with WP bundle. I see the bundle you posted does have Works. My point about the support still holds true.

One other thing...

When a new CPU comes out requiring a new motherboard, how likely is it that I will be able to use that Dell case and PSU with my new motherboard and CPU? For that matter, if a Dell motherboard dies a day after the warranty expires, where can I get a replacement and how much will I have to pay for it?

 

[3L33T32003]

These days with jumperless motherboards and color coded inputs a complete idiot could build a computer.

Then there are a LOT of people out there who are dumber than complete idiots.

Thank god.
(makes $50+/hr working on aol user's pc's)

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: ddeder
It may be tough, if not impossible to beat the price of the machine, but sooner or later most users will need support for their machine. Most people would be better off paying a little more for a custom machine from a local computer shop so they don't have to deal with the BS support of Dell, Gateway, HP or any of the big makers. The first time you spend 3 hours on the phone being routed around an automated system you will agree with me...

Also, who wants the crappy software that Dell and the rest bundle with their machines? Who the heck uses Word Perfect Productivity Pack anyway? If they can bundle Microsoft Works 2003 or Office XP at the same price then it would be worth something. Seems to me the rest of the junk they load on the machine (AOL, MSN, Dell utilities, etc...) just gums up the machine and takes up space.

Well, at least the clueless have finally conceded the price superiority! I haven't experienced Dell's "horrible" support first hand, but I KNOW how bad the local mom & pop shop can be. Right off the bat, Dell ships out configurations that work! When your local PC builder slaps something together, it may very well have buggy drivers mixed in the package. You're almost assured of having to phone them up sooner or later. Dell won't use AMD. There's a reason for that, and you know it ain't just Intel's heavy hand. Your local mom & pop won't think twice about shoving you out the door with an AMD and all it's issues and potential problems.

Who gets the nod for more stable machines, Dell & Intel or "Pop's PCs" with AMDs? Who is more likely to stick a flaky, returned component in some poor SOB's new PC? Who will be available Christmas day to help set up a printer over the phone, long wait or not?

Why buy OEM computers?

1. PRICE!
2. Stable, proven configurations
3. 24/7 Support
4. Fresh, New Components
5. No AMD (in Dell's case)

 

[dethman]

Originally posted by: CallTheFBI

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: CallTheFBI

If you want to consider yourself as some sort of technological elite because you can plug cards into slots, that's fine by me, just try to remember that your way of seeing things is not the only way.

ZV

Uh, actually I said the opposite. An idiot could do it.

And, in so saying, you clearly imply that anyone who either cannot or does not must therefore be lower than an idiot. There are a LOT of people who could not build a computer, and by saying idiots can build computers, then logically you must consider those who cannot to be below idiots.

ZV

Seriously, anyone who isn't mentally handicapped could learn how to build a computer.

the point is they don't want to. any idiot can learn to change their own oil, but they don't want to. it's another hassle and takes up time they don't have. i always built my computers but respect that lots of people don't have the time or knowledge.

try asking some random person at a mall whether they know how to build a computer. he probably doesn't even know how to use MS Word.

 

[vi edit]

When a new CPU comes out requiring a new motherboard, how likely is it that I will be able to use that Dell case and PSU with my new motherboard and CPU? For that matter, if a Dell motherboard dies a day after the warranty expires, where can I get a replacement and how much will I have to pay for it?

You're being short sighted again. Very, very, very few people who order an OEM computer like Dell will ever open it up, much less swap out a motherboard & CPU. In three or four years time, they simply give it to their kids to play on and buy a new one for a couple hundred bucks.

As for the out of warranty replacement - most people will just write it off and buy a new one. Plus, Dell's failure rate on CPU's, Motherboards, and most parts outside of hard drives (not counting laptops) is so insanely low, it's not even a major concern of mine. If it doesn't die in the first year, I'm really not worried about it dying in the next 2 or 3. Besides, for $150 you can have onsite service for three years.

Much more convenient than boxing the machine up and driving it over to Bob's Computer store for them to charge you a $70 diagnostic fee just to tell you what's wrong, and then another $150 to actually fix it.

Face it, Dell is doing something right. Their sales and stock shows that.

 

[newbiepcuser]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Alistar7
then dont, buy pre built junk.......

Please all wise one, explain to me how a Dell using Intel P4 CPU's, Intel Motherboards, ATi Radeon video cards, Maxtor 7200 RPM drives, Samsung CDROMs, Micron PC2100 RDRAM, very nice cases for $400, AND a full bundle of productivity sofware including Window's XP is junk?

I think i'm going to cry, I just preconfigured a Dell Pent IV 2.4 for my cousin with 18inch LCD, nicely equipped with ATI 9700 non pro, etc for around 1100. I spent around 700 to 800 on my rig, and thats without monitor/LCD. I don't even game anymore. I was lucky that I got legit XP pro, etc, but adding the cost and amount of time, I think i'm going OEM next time.

 

[FuZoR]

My parents, siblings, family, are all on dells.
They use it for the Internet and basic office apps... (Word, Excel.. etc) THATS IT!!!
They aren?t playing UNREAL 2...

edit* if i went out and order similar or equal parts... the price easily went above how much the dells cost

 

[RGN]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
intel, maxtor, western digital, ati, crucial, 3com are hardly generic parts.

Right, I'd rather had the industry standard parts than over engineered technocrap.

 

[Bagger]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

I would never be happy knowing i payed more for the same junks/low quality parts that I can buy much cheaper at wholesale price! onboard vga, onboard sound, onboard lan are the lowest quality you can get. heck, if you seperate them into component, they run faster, sound better, and your processor can work much more efficient! See, thats the problem with bargain PC, you pretty much have to toss it out once you upgrade.

Once again, you people STILL aren't seeing the big picture. You are a super-MINORITY. Most people need a sound card to do nothing other than to make the typical dings, beeps, clicks and whistles associated with windows. Maybe they'll pop a CD in and listen to it on their $15 set of speakers that came with the system. On speakers that cheap, you'll never be able to tell the difference between built in Audio and and a $100 Soundblaster Audigy or whatever is out now.

You guys are no different than the performance nuts that can't/won't accept the fact that 90% of the US population drives automatic vehicles therfore most manufacturers only offer automatics.

Please tell me how you could possibly beat this:

Discounted Price $785.00

Dell Dimension 8250: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.4GHz, Premium Audio, Intg. NIC

Memory: 256 MB PC1066 RDRAM (2 RIMMs)
Floppy Drive: 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive
Hard Disk Drive: 80 GB EIDE Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
Video: 64MB GEFORCE4 MX 420 with TV Out
Modem: V.92 Data/Fax/Voice WinModem
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows XP Home
CD ROM Drive: 48X Max Variable CD-ROM Drive
CD Read-Write Drive: 40X/10X/40X CDRW Drive
Software: Resource CD
Microsoft® WorksSuite 2002
Norton AntiVirus 2002 Software
AOL 7.0/MSN Internet Access
Image Expert Standard Software
Dell Support 2.0
Software
Dell Support 2.0
Misc: QuietKey Keyboard
Shipping Material
Upgrade: Logitech Optical 2-Button Mouse

Bagger Special:
============
Antec 330watt ATX..$50 shipped
Athlon XP 2100+.....$79 shipped
Heatsink/Fan..........$10 shipped
Abit KR7A-RAID.......$25 shipped (KT266A chipset)
256mb DDR ram...~$35 after rebate
Floppy 1.44mb........$5 shipped
80GB 7200rpm.....~$65 after rebate
EVGA GF4 MX440....$29 shipped
56K modem............$0 after rebate
Sound Blaster Live..$15 shipped
Netgear NIC............$0 after rebate
Operating System...$85 shipped
48x CD-RW..............$20 after rebate
48x CD-ROM............$15 shipped
Jumbled Dell Software = CRAP
Quiet Keyboard.......$0 after rebate
Optical Mouse..........$10 after rebate
===========================
TOTAL = $443 after rebates

...Yeah the processor isn't quite a fast, but the system I build won't have 10 or more pieces of junk software running in the background eating up resources.

...Even BEFORE rebates you're only looking at about $550 out of pocket. For office suite you can get OpenOffice for free.

 

[vi edit]

...Even BEFORE rebates you're only looking at about $550 out of pocket. For office suite you can get OpenOffice for free.

We can nitpick back and forth forever but I'll say this...

1. Rebates suck.
2. I question your prices and shipping amounts.
3. How many freaking places do you have to go to get those parts at those prices.
4. I question the name brand components you use.
5. You saved over $100 by going AMD. Not a fair comparison IMHO.
6. You still have to take the time to get it put together.
7. I would hardly call MS Money, MS Word, Works 2002, streets & trips, Encarta, Roxio EZ CD Creator, and Music Match MP3 Encoder "Crap".
8. You have to hold on to 20 different receipts and chase down 20 different tech support numbers if something breaks.
9. Same thing goes for drivers.
10. No support on the system at all.

 

[Ornery]

vi_edit, they won't do an apples to apples price comparison, because they can't win! We've already established the big OEMs build the stuff cheaper than we can. Yeah, I agree with you about that configuration. He whines about extra software kludging it up, but what about the low grade, noisy components he's slapping in there? I can get rid of the software easy enough, but you're still going to be stuck with that crappy hardware.

 

[Bagger]

1. Rebates = money back to me = not suck (I've received 95% of the rebates I've sent off, so feel free to add $5 to my total)
2. Anything that's listed with a MIR is purchased locally (i.e. Staples, Compusa, Best Buy, Office Max, Office Depot, etc), everything else is purchased at newegg (the motherboard and video card can be found in the Refurb section, I personally just picked up that Abit board today, and if the part is bad Newegg will pay for return shipping)
3. Well if I'm building the system for someone, they only have to go to one place....ME
4. Every single component (except for the floppy... who cares who makes the floppy) are name-brand... CD-RW will be a Lite-on, keyboard and mouse made by microsfot or logitech, hard drive is Maxtor, 56K modem (see floppy), video card made by EVGA (it IS a brand name, just not one you see on retail shelves often...you can get an ATI Radeon 7500 for about the same price, and it'll perform about as well as a GF4mx420)
5. Why is it not a fair comparison to save $100? I can add $100 to the CPU price and get an XP 2500+... now please don't tell me you're choosing Intel for it's stability.. these are not the days of Cyrix 6x86 cpu's. Dell is about the ONLY vendor that won't sell Athlons, and you don't think it's because Intel has em by the balls? Please!
6. That's the FUN part of it, besides, we're talking about money out of pocket, not labor invested. I can probably build a PC as fast as Joe Thousanaire can unpack his Dell and scoot his typewriter off of his desk and put the computer on it
7. I've used MS Works 2002... CRAP... Open Office works better with Office XP that MS Works does and it's FREE
8. If I'm building the PC for someone, they only have to come to one place if something breaks.. ME
9. See above
10. See above

Now granted, if I build the system for someone they aren't going to pay $443, they're going to pay $550 or $600.

What is this about noise, crappy components? You do not need a jet engine to cool an Athlon, now I probably can't get it quite as quiet as a Dell system but it's not going to be loud by any means. You say apples to apples comparison, I bet if I took my Athlon XP 2100+ configured system, did a nice fresh load of XP on it and ran some benchmarks you'd see the scores coming in neck and neck. However, the average person won't care if the system is "9% faster or whatever" so that point is moot. I chose the XP 2100+ because it's a sweet spot in price/performance... why would I change it to an Athlon XP2500+ for a 5-10% gain while upping the price 25%?

I see these types of threads pop up alot and I usually stay out of them, but people tend to go to extremes on both sides, and I'm just trying to point out that in a real world situation you CAN build a very nice system that will run just as well as a Dell for less. The service I could provide to someone who buys a PC would FAR surpass the service 1-800-Dell-Please-listen-carefully-as-our-options-have-changed could provide. Maybe not everyone can build a system that cheaply or that quickly or provide that level of service, but I can. It can be done. Would I sell a computer to someone who knows nothing about computers? Probably not, unless they lived real close to me and I could just drive over and fix it. Heck I already do that for half my friends and family for free

 

[compudog]

vi_edit and Ornery are 100% correct. Don't even try to compete with Dell or any OEM for that matter. They buy in volume, huge volume. You cannot, absolutely cannot, compete. It's simple economy of scale. A mom & pop computer place can do a value-add like custom application programming, on-site analysis, etc, but they cannot compete on price/features/quality/support. No way, no how. If someone comes to me looking for a PC and they want something inexpensive and they are a 'typical' user, I suggest Dell. If they want to put together a machine for gaming, or some special hardware that ties into their dynamometer in their tune-up shop aside of the paint spray booth, then I put something together for them. Otherwise, call Dell.

 

[vi edit]

Bagger, I'm most certainly not knocking your prowess at finding good deals, but you are missing the point. People buy OEM machines for cost, convenience, and support. Your setup provides only one of the three, and I somewhat question that one item.

As far as apples to apples I think of it like this - If I am out looking for a car, I could buy a honda for $15,000 or a Hyundai for $14,000(not quite accurate numbers but stick with me). Sure they both do the same thing, but ones a honda, and the other is a hyundai. One has a solid history, and pretty much ensures me years of trouble free service. The other has a shaky history, an uncertain future, and generally doesn't have a gleaming repution outside of a select few owners that are happy with the way their cars ran.

For $1000(or $100) in this case, do we want to take that chance? How many servers do you see running AMD in them?

That's what I thought.

(P.S. - I run AMD in my home system)

 

[Ornery]

Hey! Don't rag on Bagger anymore... I wanna hear where he's getiing a Lite-On for friggen $20 after rebates!