Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan

[Artorias]

 

[hal2kilo]

Was wondering if you had a time machine.

 

[K1052]

Looks like there was a pause in flights to Doha, at capacity there. Shifting over to Bahrain and apparently Ramstein in Germany.

Reportedly 10K people cleared and waiting to depart.

 

[e2dog32021]

Dems have issues but they are the only party if you have even a modicrum of common sense, the other 'party' is just a bunch of brown shirts now and they don't even try to hide it...

 

[VRAMdemon]

Haley, Pompeo, Pence, DumpsterFire conveniently forgetting their negotiations with the Taliban. Making their own reality for the consumption of morons.

Nikki Haley Took Issue With Biden’s Taliban Negotiation, Twitter Reminded Her That She Has ‘Donmentia’

Donald Trump's former ambassador to the United Nation has lost her damn mind.

www.theroot.com

And ... This POS call Biden a POS

Marjorie Taylor Greene Tells Biden in Video, ‘You’re Not a President, You’re a Piece of Sh*t’

The congresswoman from Georgia recorded the video at a gym and posted it on Gettr.

www.mediaite.com

Yes. Let’s not forget DumpsterFire was going to host the Taliban at Camp David for his “peace summit.” Idiots!

 

[Leeea]

great update, thank you

 

[sportage]

Best reasoning given on the extraction was the observation that whenever within American history after America lost a war was it easy? America has lost two wars, Vietnam and now Afghanistan, neither were pretty. Trump could have done no better and in fact Trump was obligated to leave Afghanistan back in May of 2021. We would have witnessed this same tragedy back in May under Trump instead now in august Under Biden. So, what’s the point? The point is Biden is getting us out, finally, and never was it going to be a cake walk. Never, given that America had no business being there in the first place. But I don’t need to hear from Biden or Fox News or Donald Trump, I want to hear from George Bush. This is and was his mess and not anyone else’s. When Americans elect dumb presidents we get dumb wars that go on and on and on. So let’s put it this way, America in her ignorance elected GW Bush and so this tragedy is not Biden’s nor Trump’s nor even Bush, this tragedy is that of the ignorance of the American electorate. The stupid, gullible, ignorant American electorate plain and simple. How dare any American criticize Joe Biden over this. America, voters, you own this….

 

[amenx]

Very informative info on why the U.S. mission to Afghanistan was doomed to fail as the British Empire had failed there in the 19th century and as the Soviets had failed in the 1980s. The cultural, geographic, border aspects figure prominently in this.

 

[dank69]

I posted this in another thread but maybe this is a better place to get an answer:

I've barely paid attention to the Afghanistan mess. I'd assumed that Biden pulled the last of our troops out and then the government collapsed before we could get the civvies out. But now I'm reading that our troops have not been pulled out and we actually added 5000 more to assist with the drawdown. So maybe someone can articulate exactly what it is that Biden did wrong here?

 

[soulcougher73]

New strategy: Leave Afghanistan, get everyone who wants evac'ed out. Let Taliban take over Kabul. Nuke from orbit while most are in one place?

Profit?

 

[e2dog32021]

Very informative info on why the U.S. mission to Afghanistan was doomed to fail as the British Empire had failed there in the 19th century and as the Soviets had failed in the 1980s. The cultural, geographic, border aspects figure prominently in this.

It's not impossible to conquer, it can assimilated if India ever wakes up, calls the Pakistani mullah's bluff and annexes most of the land to the east of Kandahar (Arabised version of Gandhar, Kafir+Gandhar), this was all India less than 200 years go (not just in antiquity) and not even under a Muslim ruler (under the Hindu/Sikh Ranjit Singh). Chances of any one in the current Indian state having that kind of balls -0.00001%

 

[woolfe9998]

I posted this in another thread but maybe this is a better place to get an answer:

He either was getting bad intel suggesting that Afghan security forces would hold out for several months, and on that basis, assumed there would be little problem getting everyone out, or he never got such intel and just assumed it, in which case he screwed up.

 

[Jaskalas]

Taliban violently block Australian citizens from Kabul airport evacuation flights

Not just Americans and Afghans trapped behind enemy lines. People from across the world were on the ground in support of the NATO mission. Cannot tell if the Taliban's blockade of the airport is an organized securing of prisoners or random thugs detached from a central command. But there is this message from those on the ground.

“No one can get inside,” one man said. “The Taliban are stopping everybody.”

 

[Leeea]

New strategy: Leave Afghanistan, get everyone who wants evac'ed out. Let Taliban take over Kabul. Nuke from orbit while most are in one place?

Profit?

No need to nuke. Doing nothing at all will be good enough.

The guys who keep the sewer going are taking the flight out. Care to guess what happens next?

Taliban violently block Australian citizens from Kabul airport evacuation flights

Not just Americans and Afghans trapped behind enemy lines. People from across the world were on the ground in support of the NATO mission. Cannot tell if the Taliban's blockade of the airport is an organized securing of prisoners or random thugs detached from a central command. But there is this message from those on the ground.

“No one can get inside,” one man said. “The Taliban are stopping everybody.”

Nobody wants mortars landing on the airport while trying to get the planes off the ground. Keep in mind each plane coming in probably unloads military supplies, loads up with civilians, and then leaves.

Getting aggressive is not going to solve anything unless it is fully committed to clearing the Taliban far enough from the runways that Taliban are incapable of hitting it with indirect fire. This is not going to be possible unless the logistics allow it, and they are just airlift logistics right now.


I suspect they are going to go with keeping the peace as long as that is tenable. They have no control over what the Taliban does outside the perimeter, and keeping the peace reduces the likelihood of abuses in the short term. When the Taliban start shooting people is when things will get twitchy.

 

[ElFenix]

lIbErAl MeDiA:

Turning over their platforms to partisan Republicans and pro-war military experts, the media seemed eager to portray President Joe Biden as one being swallowed up in “crisis,” even as his call to withdraw troops has drawn overwhelming, bipartisan support at home.

Axios laid it on thick. Doubling as a GOP springboard, the news outlet made sweeping factual declarations in its news coverage: “Rarely has an American president's predictions been so wrong, so fast, so convincingly as Biden on Afghanistan.”

Raise your hand if you remember the predictions President George W. Bush made about invading Iraq, long before the U.S. spent $2 trillion and more than 500,000 people died.

The media's Afghan blame game

A 20-year failure

pressrun.media

 

[K1052]

Doing some choppering to pick people up it seems

https://twitter.com/x/status/1428811505437396995

 

[manly]

He either was getting bad intel suggesting that Afghan security forces would hold out for several months, and on that basis, assumed there would be little problem getting everyone out, or he never got such intel and just assumed it, in which case he screwed up.

The CIA was offering increasingly dire predictions this summer, but Defense analysts were still being "optimistic" about Afghan security forces. Even amongst the pessimistic intelligence analysts, they said a quick collapse was becoming more likely but they weren't telling the President that it was certain. This is how intelligence works, it's probabilistic rather than spot-on predictive.

As far as those asking what did Biden do wrong, you can't argue with a straight face that mistakes weren't made. We probably failed to adequately plan for the worst case. Knowing the Trump admin as we do, Pompeo negotiated a full withdrawal with the Taliban but had no plan of action for it. The new administration had a lot on its plate domestically these 6 months, but still needed to develop a solid withdrawal plan. Obviously the sequencing is suspect; rapidly drawing down the troops ahead of Aug. 31st before evacuating Americans, let alone Afghanis who qualify for special visas. 9/11 is a somewhat arbitrary deadline to cap the war. Instead we should've set a deadline that best matches up with an evacuation of civilians followed by full troops withdrawal. If that turned out to be November-ish, that's fine.

 

[gothuevos]

For now, just going to focus on hoping everyone gets out without any casualties.

Regardless, "10k Americans trapped behind enemy lines" is horrible no matter who is at fault. And that's nothing to say of the optics and future electoral ramifications, although not important right now as lives are at stake. I am curious what the worst case scenario was that was presented to Biden and his staff, re: timeline of withdrawal and expected fall of government.

I also find myself wondering how I and others here, in the media, congress, etc would be reacting if this had played out exactly this way but under Trump.

Would we be calling for impeachment?

 

[woolfe9998]

I also find myself wondering how I and others here, in the media, congress, etc would be reacting if this had played out exactly this way but under Trump.

Would we be calling for impeachment?

No. Because it isn't corrupt or illegal.

 

[K1052]

Nobody knows how many Americans are in Afganhistan. They're supposed to check in with the embassy but not everyone does, hence they think its in the 5-10-15k neighborhood.

 

[manly]

No. Because it isn't corrupt or illegal.

Also, the Dems are not oblivious to political reality. I agreed with both impeachments because they fit the crimes, despite all of us knowing Senate Repugs would acquit. House Dems would not take a third bite of this rotten apple knowing the end game would be the same. If fomenting an insurrection doesn't meet the bar for the GQP, then it's obvious that many "high crimes and misdemeanors" wouldn't either.

 

[dank69]

... Obviously the sequencing is suspect; rapidly drawing down the troops ahead of Aug. 31st before evacuating Americans, let alone Afghanis who qualify for special visas. ...

See, this is what is confusing me. We had 2500 troops with plans to add 4000 to help with drawdown on the 15th. Here you are saying we drew down troops when we were planning on adding more? That makes no sense to me. What am I missing?

 

[Jaskalas]

Getting aggressive is not going to solve anything unless it is fully committed to clearing the Taliban far enough from the runways that Taliban are incapable of hitting it with indirect fire. This is not going to be possible unless the logistics allow it, and they are just airlift logistics right now.

You may have seen my message edited. Indeed, I had thought about it and realized how effortless it would be for the Taliban to shoot down every aircraft. We cannot win that fight by taking out the checkpoints to the airport. The entire city would need to be purged through all out invasion and bombardment. Losing many civilians as collateral. Whether we go big, or go home, the Taliban have their prisoners.

Maybe being caught up as collateral would be more ideal than a play thing to be tortured though. Biden has left us with no good answers. Best we can hope for is the Taliban loosen their blockade of the airport and everyone can go home. Perhaps we can bribe them with the Afghan funds we hold.

 

[gothuevos]

Here's what I don't get.

Why are there 15k non-military personnel still in Afghanistan in August 2021?

This was initially going to happen in May. Then 9/11, then finally 8/31. Even in the best case scenario where the Afghan government would last for ~12 months or whatever, it still wouldn't be safe for Americans to stay in that country after our military forces left.

So again, even under ideal circumstances, 8/31 was rapidly approaching. Why were there so many Americans still there? An (additional) gaff on the State dept not notifying these people to get out sooner? Or are they all just procrastinators? Did they think they could take their sweet time leaving the country once our military was gone? The whole thing just floors me, and why I think it's unfair to pin this entirely on Biden as the same thing would have happened under Trump (yeah, yeah, he would have magically gotten all our assets out before May). And aside from all these people now being in danger, it is entirely deflating because it will likely sink the Dems in 2022 and 2024 as the GOP will easily use this to paint them as "weak on security" like they loved to do circa early 2000s when we got into this mess in the first place.

And I worry a GOP majority won't stumble like they did last time in cementing their agenda.

 

[gothuevos]

Perhaps we can bribe them with the Afghan funds we hold.

Oh geez...please no more "pallets of cash" for the media to run incessantly.