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Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan
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I don't think the Taliban will interfere much with the exodus of Afghan civilians that want leave at the Kabul airport because they would sooner have the undesired leave the country rather then having to hunt them down later. They might; however, make an example of a few.
Any Americans outside the military still there are doing so of their own free will. Afghans? The only reason we're still there is to help some of them get out. It would have been much neater had we just pulled out May 1. They'd all be screwed, just as Trump & Pompeo intended.
Muse
Lifer
Yeah, another article in the NYTimes advocating the position that we fucked up by backing out of Afghanistan in this way:
www.nytimes.com
The article concludes:
It did not have to be this way. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had about 85,000 troops in the country. The Taliban controlled none of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals. When President Barack Obama left office there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. troops. And when Mr. Trump departed there were fewer than 5,000. The Taliban still did not hold any major urban area. Now, they hold the entire country. What changed so swiftly and completely? We did. Mr. Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces destroyed an affordable status quo that could have lasted indefinitely at a minimum cost in blood and treasure. Even with a full withdrawal, we might have managed steps that would have protected our interests. The ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and I suggested how in these pages a few months ago.
Now, the Taliban hold all the cards. They will determine whether evacuations through the Kabul airport can proceed. And whatever happens next, the image of this American capitulation is already etched indelibly in the world’s imagination. It is that U.S. Air Force C-17 taxiing for takeoff from Kabul surrounded by a desperate Afghan mob. Seconds later, at least one man falls to his death from the plane’s wheel well. It is eerily reminiscent of the people who jumped from the World Trade Center on 9/11 rather than face death by fire. What a tragic and painful circle it closes two decades later.
Opinion | Why Biden’s Lack of Strategic Patience Led to Disaster (Published 2021)
The American disaster in Afghanistan that Biden’s impatience brought about is not a disaster just for us. It's a huge boost for the Taliban too.
It did not have to be this way. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had about 85,000 troops in the country. The Taliban controlled none of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals. When President Barack Obama left office there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. troops. And when Mr. Trump departed there were fewer than 5,000. The Taliban still did not hold any major urban area. Now, they hold the entire country. What changed so swiftly and completely? We did. Mr. Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces destroyed an affordable status quo that could have lasted indefinitely at a minimum cost in blood and treasure. Even with a full withdrawal, we might have managed steps that would have protected our interests. The ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and I suggested how in these pages a few months ago.
Now, the Taliban hold all the cards. They will determine whether evacuations through the Kabul airport can proceed. And whatever happens next, the image of this American capitulation is already etched indelibly in the world’s imagination. It is that U.S. Air Force C-17 taxiing for takeoff from Kabul surrounded by a desperate Afghan mob. Seconds later, at least one man falls to his death from the plane’s wheel well. It is eerily reminiscent of the people who jumped from the World Trade Center on 9/11 rather than face death by fire. What a tragic and painful circle it closes two decades later.
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Muse
Lifer
I have to think this naive. The Taliban in the streets of Kabul are illiterate bumpkins with assault weapons. They don't know what to make of orders from Taliban chiefs, their guns do the talking, and sometimes the clubbing of the populace. They know force, violence and fundamentalism, nothing else. There's a vacuum of leadership now. This may get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
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Mighty fine set of assumptions.
Yeah, another article in the NYTimes advocating the position that we fucked up by backing out of Afghanistan in this way:
Opinion | Why Biden’s Lack of Strategic Patience Led to Disaster (Published 2021)
The American disaster in Afghanistan that Biden’s impatience brought about is not a disaster just for us. It's a huge boost for the Taliban too.
It did not have to be this way. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had about 85,000 troops in the country. The Taliban controlled none of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals. When President Barack Obama left office there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. troops. And when Mr. Trump departed there were fewer than 5,000. The Taliban still did not hold any major urban area. Now, they hold the entire country. What changed so swiftly and completely? We did. Mr. Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces destroyed an affordable status quo that could have lasted indefinitely at a minimum cost in blood and treasure. Even with a full withdrawal, we might have managed steps that would have protected our interests. The ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and I suggested how in these pages a few months ago.
That piece is a great example of the conflation I'm talking about. 1.) He didn't make an argument of how we would have gotten out without the chaos instead He's making an argument to keep the troops there indefinitely. 2.) He glosses over the fact the status quo wasn't really a status quo. It was dependent on a cease fire that was going to end on May 1st. This paragraph is especially disingenuous.
NWRMidnight
Diamond Member
Yeah, another article in the NYTimes advocating the position that we fucked up by backing out of Afghanistan in this way:
The article concludes:Opinion | Why Biden’s Lack of Strategic Patience Led to Disaster (Published 2021)
The American disaster in Afghanistan that Biden’s impatience brought about is not a disaster just for us. It's a huge boost for the Taliban too.
It did not have to be this way. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had about 85,000 troops in the country. The Taliban controlled none of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals. When President Barack Obama left office there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. troops. And when Mr. Trump departed there were fewer than 5,000. The Taliban still did not hold any major urban area. Now, they hold the entire country. What changed so swiftly and completely? We did. Mr. Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces destroyed an affordable status quo that could have lasted indefinitely at a minimum cost in blood and treasure. Even with a full withdrawal, we might have managed steps that would have protected our interests. The ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and I suggested how in these pages a few months ago.
Now, the Taliban hold all the cards. They will determine whether evacuations through the Kabul airport can proceed. And whatever happens next, the image of this American capitulation is already etched indelibly in the world’s imagination. It is that U.S. Air Force C-17 taxiing for takeoff from Kabul surrounded by a desperate Afghan mob. Seconds later, at least one man falls to his death from the plane’s wheel well. It is eerily reminiscent of the people who jumped from the World Trade Center on 9/11 rather than face death by fire. What a tragic and painful circle it closes two decades later.
Considering he is manipulating the numbers for Trump by using "fewer than 5000" rather than the actual, factual 2500 number shows he is spinning falsehoods, by manipulation, to paint a better picture than it actually was.
Who wrote this 'tale of tears'??Yeah, another article in the NYTimes advocating the position that we fucked up by backing out of Afghanistan in this way:
The article concludes:Opinion | Why Biden’s Lack of Strategic Patience Led to Disaster (Published 2021)
The American disaster in Afghanistan that Biden’s impatience brought about is not a disaster just for us. It's a huge boost for the Taliban too.
It did not have to be this way. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had about 85,000 troops in the country. The Taliban controlled none of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals. When President Barack Obama left office there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. troops. And when Mr. Trump departed there were fewer than 5,000. The Taliban still did not hold any major urban area. Now, they hold the entire country. What changed so swiftly and completely? We did. Mr. Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces destroyed an affordable status quo that could have lasted indefinitely at a minimum cost in blood and treasure. Even with a full withdrawal, we might have managed steps that would have protected our interests. The ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and I suggested how in these pages a few months ago.
Now, the Taliban hold all the cards. They will determine whether evacuations through the Kabul airport can proceed. And whatever happens next, the image of this American capitulation is already etched indelibly in the world’s imagination. It is that U.S. Air Force C-17 taxiing for takeoff from Kabul surrounded by a desperate Afghan mob. Seconds later, at least one man falls to his death from the plane’s wheel well. It is eerily reminiscent of the people who jumped from the World Trade Center on 9/11 rather than face death by fire. What a tragic and painful circle it closes two decades later.
Someone hasn't learned anything, nor gained any capacity for shame, in the last 20 years
PlanetJosh
Golden Member
So I read about concerns that China, if they believe the U.S. is now weak because of the Kabul failure, may conduct a military takeover of Taiwan. Mostly from conservative news outlets I think. Don't know if that's going to be a thing within the next few months or years.
Expect epic fear mongering about all kinds of shit from the right wing media. They sure as hell don't want to talk about how the stupidity they've encouraged facilitates the Delta variant going hog wild on the whole country.
imported_tajmahal
Lifer
Cute diversion. It still doesn't help that Biden totally fucked up this withdrawal as attributed too various NATO leaders and U.S. citizens.
Yeh, it would have been a whole lot neater had we pulled out May 1 leaving Afghans who want out no avenue of escape. It's the only reason we're still there.
skyking
Lifer
Exactly that. Just another hit piece with no alternate solution of merit, and misrepresentation of the situation on the ground. Without the Trump dealings the bloodshed would have continued.
HomerJS
Lifer
I notice you kept your trap shut when Trump negotiated with the Taliban and iced out the Afghan government. And also made it virtually impossible for the Afghans who helped us get in the US because Stephan Miller is such a racist.
Muse
Lifer
Why would he do that? Apparently he was the ambassador to Afghanistan for Obama and he's writing in the NYTimes, not exactly your right wing rag.
Muse
Lifer
I don't believe that for a second. They wouldn't dare move on Taiwan. It would be war with the USA. Taiwan is hell of strategic. They make by far the fastest chips on the planet. Nobody comes close.
IronWing
No Lifer
The NYT is very hawkish on foreign adventures.
Muse
Lifer
It's pretty apparent to me that Biden boobooed when he signed to cut and run by 9/11. If he'd been canny he would have at the minimum leaned on his generals on the ground and hedged his bets about getting citizens and at risk Afghanistanis out of the country before the Taliban could do squat. A timeline was the last thing he needed. Right now it looks like Afghanistan could go back to being a staging ground for international terrorism. We had a lot of casualties there, I don't have the figures, but to me it looked like way less than in Vietnam or Korea.
Would it have been impossible to leave enough military presence there to prevent a Taliban takeover without major expense and loss of life?
Here's the article he co-wrote for the NYT published May 4, 2021 detailing ideas on what Biden should do before the US exit from Afghanistan:
Opinion | Here’s What Biden Must Do Before We Leave Afghanistan (Published 2021)
We cannot allow history to repeat itself.
ivwshane
Lifer
It's pretty apparent to me that Biden boobooed when he signed to cut and run by 9/11. If he'd been canny he would have at the minimum leaned on his generals on the ground and hedged his bets about getting citizens and at risk Afghanistanis out of the country before the Taliban could do squat. A timeline was the last thing he needed. Right now it looks like Afghanistan could go back to being a staging ground for international terrorism. We had a lot of casualties there, I don't have the figures, but to me it looked like way less than in Vietnam or Korea.
Would it have been impossible to leave enough military presence there to prevent a Taliban takeover without major expense and loss of life?
Here's the article he co-wrote for the NYT published May 4, 2021 detailing ideas on what Biden should do before the US exit from Afghanistan:
Opinion | Here’s What Biden Must Do Before We Leave Afghanistan (Published 2021)
We cannot allow history to repeat itself.
So a never ending war then right? You’ve fallen for the MIC’s and rights talking points.
Look up the sunken cost fallacy then figure out why, in the last twenty years, we couldn’t or haven’t been able to do what everyone thinks we should have done.
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woolfe9998
Lifer
You must be referring to the "sunk cost" fallacy.
Muse
Lifer
I'm really not sold on anything. Never said I was for a never ending war there. I just asked about it, didn't advocate for it.
I figure Biden could be right, just get out. But how you get out of something like that is maybe something he didn't give enough thought. We'll see how things go. I suspect that the next 6 months won't be pretty concerning this and that Biden's approval ratings will suffer. They already have. That's to be expected, but this isn't looking like a policy win.
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ivwshane
Lifer
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