Why are the posters on P&N so far to the left?

[ProfJohn]

P&N in general seems very liberal and full of left thinking posters. And the number and quality of conservative posters seems very low.
Has it always been like this?

Based on the level of attacks I receive I can see how a conservative poster would give up and leave after a few months in order to find a more ?balanced? forum.
At which point it sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Conservative shows up, posts for a few months, gets feed up and leaves, repeat.

Any of you long timers have any thoughts on this?

 

[GoPackGo]

Not all of us are on the far left.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
P&N in general seems very liberal and full of left thinking posters. And the number and quality of conservative posters seems very low.
Has it always been like this?

Based on the level of attacks I receive I can see how a conservative poster would give up and leave after a few months in order to find a more ?balanced? forum.
At which point it sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Conservative shows up, posts for a few months, gets feed up and leaves, repeat.

Any of you long timers have any thoughts on this?

Attacks :roll:

The Country has been and continues to be under attack by radical righties so you bet your boopy P&N is proudly full of left thinking posters. Thank God.

Be nice if so called "balanced" conservatives just left the Country and leave us Liberals to save the U.S. from their disaster.

Thank you

 

[Uhtrinity]

Perhaps most of us are actually in the middle and you are so far to the right .... that's my take. Blame it all on the whole, "if your not with us mentality", if you keep pushing everyone away while you move farther to the right you will make everyone else the 'liberals' you despise. FYI I consider myself slightly off center to the left.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
P&N in general seems very liberal and full of left thinking posters. And the number and quality of conservative posters seems very low.
Has it always been like this?

Based on the level of attacks I receive I can see how a conservative poster would give up and leave after a few months in order to find a more ?balanced? forum.
At which point it sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Conservative shows up, posts for a few months, gets feed up and leaves, repeat.

Any of you long timers have any thoughts on this?

Attacks :roll:

The Country has been and continues to be under attack by radical righties so you bet your boopy P&N is proudly full of left thinking posters. Thank God.

Be nice if so called "balanced" conservatives just left the Country and leave us Liberals to save the U.S. from their disaster.

Thank you

Dave...I dont think of you as Left-Wing...where does that put me ?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
quality of conservative posters seems very low.

Nature of the beast?

Edit: In all seriousness, I consider myself moderate. I'm fiscally conservative, a Keynesian capitalist. I despise the notion of a socialized healthcare system. I'm pro death penalty & for an extremely 'tough on crime' judiciary, support having a dominant military, and I'm basically a libertarian when it comes to social issues (ie. if you're gay, that's great, I don't care, get married or whatever you want to do; if you want an abortion, I don't care, get one) with the exceptions of scientific research & educational funding (which I'm more of a socialist - these things are important to me. I eat meat with gusto but I think the environment is worth protecting because I realize we're a part of it & short-sightedness will bite us in the butt if we don't think.

The current Republicans in control are not fiscally conservative (see the war in Iraq), and are more aligned with Christian zealots than the truly secular spirit the Founders envisioned.

The current Democrats have no identity, but they're not the current Republicans, and that's enough for me.

 

[Termagant]

A think a computer technology site will tend to attract younger viewers, and younger voters tend more to the left than the right.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: Termagant
A think a computer technology site will tend to attract younger viewers, and younger voters tend more to the left than the right.

Then explain why most of the 'Liberal' posters are 30 - 50 years of age? Most of the hard core righties have been in their 20's and below. Now not saying that applies to everyone, just some of the more vocal members (dmcowen, conjur, zendari, riporin, genx, pabster, moony).

 

[PrinceofWands]

I have many thoughts. Younger people tend towards the left more. People who spend time in cyberspace tend towards the left more. Then what you said about righties leaving. I think you put those together and you get what we have there.

But there are a LOT of misconceptions on the part of the right about this. Just because someone has a left view on something doesn't make him a liberal (and not all liberals are democrats). I have many left views, but just as many or more right views. The issues coming up in America today are largely being driven by extreme radical righties though, so the outcry is generally going to be one of the left. If you get lefts in power the issues raised will be left, and so we'll all start crying out on the right (if we have those views at least).

 

[alchemize]

Add the geek factor as well. Geeks are usually wanna-be rebels. Not much wanna-be rebellion in the right...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Perhaps most of us are actually in the middle and you are so far to the right .... that's my take. Blame it all on the whole, "if your not with us mentality", if you keep pushing everyone away while you move farther to the right you will make everyone else the 'liberals' you despise. FYI I consider myself slightly off center to the left.

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Dave...I dont think of you as Left-Wing...where does that put me ?

Like Trinity I used to consider myself slightly left of center but thanks to the radicals that have ruined the Country I seem so far left I might as well be off the planet.

I would consider you right of center, you occasionally have a center opinion but most of the time side with the radicals.

 

[Dean]

I think many people are moderates who are just fed up with the current government. I find the few who are on the right here get questioned because of their extreme blind loyalty.

No matter how badly Bush and Company screws the pooch, you are here defending them. If you took a more reasonable stance, many more here would respect you.

Just because you are on the right, it does not make you a traitor to be negative over something Bush does or says. You can disagree with them once in a while. Doing so would to me, and many others, show that you actually have a mind of your own.

 

[Zebo]

I don't think there are too many idealogues here which always tow party line but it certainly leans left - I don't know why... but I hope you stay John, I enjoy reading your posts... I don't post much because it's really a waste of time..you know that whole argueing on the intraweb thing like special olympics. I mainly just lurk.

 

[nageov3t]

the internet tends to skew young?

 

[judasmachine]

consider it a reaction. i think many are centrists at heart untill the powers that be start using wedge issues, it drives the right further right, and the left further left. these are incredibly stupid times in our history. we are bitching about what we all feel we should arbitrarily force others to do, which is as unamerican as you can get. none of us americans want to be told what we can and cannot do, so when one side gets too much power, and starts enforcing their will we all go running back to our base camps.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Perhaps most of us are actually in the middle and you are so far to the right .... that's my take. Blame it all on the whole, "if your not with us mentality", if you keep pushing everyone away while you move farther to the right you will make everyone else the 'liberals' you despise. FYI I consider myself slightly off center to the left.

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Dave...I dont think of you as Left-Wing...where does that put me ?

Like Trinity I used to consider myself slightly left of center but thanks to the radicals that have ruined the Country I seem so far left I might as well be off the planet.

I would consider you right of center, you occasionally have a center opinion but most of the time side with the radicals.

I live in Minnesota and the example of the taxis at the airport push me to the far right a bit.

Its like the Democrats here are against a full four year college for my city, despite the fact we have over 100000 people now and are the third largest city in the state.

We had Jesse Ventura as governor several years ago and he gave away so much money that it put the state way in the red.

The economy was in the tank so the legislature really couldnt raise taxes anymore so they had to cut spending to bring us back to even.

Now the Dems are blaming him for cutting education spending. What choice did the state government have? Lots of spending got cut.

The economy has improved here and we now are looking at having a tax surplus so some of that funding should be restored.

So I would say the Minnesota Republicans are doing OK.

 

[PrinceofWands]

On another point research clearly indicates a major dealignment with the current party system in America (from both sides). Politics is becoming more approachable to the common man today, partly because of information availability. Combined with less 'belonging' this is creating voters unhappy with a dual two-axis party system which does not effectively represent them (or in truth many others). If world studies in political science are any indication you could expect the current dealignment to result in a major reshaping of our party system, with a multiple axis base (or unfortunately a completely issue based one) resulting in the more representative and inclusive 3-5 party system.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I mostly lurk in here, but I think AT is a lot to the left on most issues for several reasons.

Below are just a few opinions with no facts to back them up.
1.) There are a lot of people here who live in more liberal areas, (Lots of Canadians, Californians, New Yorkers, etc, where a large majority leans more to the left)
2.) There are a lot of atheists on these boards. We don't like the idea of mixing religion and politics. The "far right" includes a lot of people who take their religion very seriously, where as the left doesn't bring up religion as much.
3.) AT is mostly younger people, my experience has been more people who are order lean to the right, and people who are younger lean to the left.
4.) Lots of ATers are highly offended that minorities don't always get total equality when it comes to rights. (for example, gays or lesbians who want to marry)

That being said, lots of AT is left on many social issues, but on some issues, such as gun control, you will find a lot of fence jumpers.

Personally, I think that a majority of AT folks would fit into the "Libertarian" stereotype moreso than the pure leftist stereotype, but perhaps I have a bias there, as I personally consider myself as a Libertarian.

And ProfJohn, I agree with some of the other posters here, that perhaps the majority isn't "extreme left", instead the majority on AT is probably "slightly to moderate left" and you are "extreme right."

That being said, we will disagree on many things (I am extremely pro-immigration (not illegally, but vastly increasing quotas and simplifying the process for legal immigration), pro raising taxes (until the national debt is 0, then lower them to whatever level will result in financial equilibrium, and never build up a deficit), pro gay marriage, probably many others.)

That being said, lots of the "left" will disagree with me on many issues, and I (as well as others) lean to the right. For instance, I believe very strongly in National Defense. I also am very "pro Israel." I embrace all of the amendments on the bill of rights. I don't pick and choose like many of both the far right and the far left. I believe the first amendment is limitless and absolute (you'll probably disagree as I think things like flag burning, while offensive, are protected by the first amendment. The purpose of the government is to serve the people. The people must always maintain total power over the government. Because of that, I also believe very strongly in the second amendment. "A Well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

That being said, there are "spinsters" on both sides, lots of people don't even appear to stay focused on the topic of the post, but instead they focus on their personal distaste for those who they disagree with. Unfortunately, it seems like that's how politics in general are these days. The left smears the right, the right smears the left, people who generally would be intelligent and thoughtful instead let their feelings talk instead of their thoughts.

I dunno, I'm just babbling like a buffoon, so I think I'll end my post soon.
PS, I'm not a "lets all just get along" wussy, but I'm not afraid to agree to disagree. Also, I know that I personally have "let my feelings talk instead of my thoughts" several times before. I ate a few flames for it. (I know I'm not perfect, and I don't want everyone to interpret me as being a hypocrite.)

 

[Ferocious]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
P&N in general seems very liberal and full of left thinking posters. And the number and quality of conservative posters seems very low.
Has it always been like this?

Based on the level of attacks I receive I can see how a conservative poster would give up and leave after a few months in order to find a more ?balanced? forum.
At which point it sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Conservative shows up, posts for a few months, gets feed up and leaves, repeat.

Any of you long timers have any thoughts on this?

LOL.
You shoulda been here in the late 90's on the old message board. About 75% anti-Clinton right wingers.

I'm actually surprised at how many righties there are here now. I mean considering how horrid Bush and company are.

 

[daveymark]

those not in power (or on the losing side) are more prone to speak up. I prefer it that way. dissent is one of the most precious things we have in this country. I think that is why many liberals do not make good on their threats of leaving the country when republicans gain a seat. After the shock sets in, liberals realize they can still voice their opinions, even after they've lost. I'm sure if the dems ever gain control of congress/presidency, there will be plenty more conservatives voicing their opinions/dissatisfactions.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On another point research clearly indicates a major dealignment with the current party system in America (from both sides). Politics is becoming more approachable to the common man today, partly because of information availability. Combined with less 'belonging' this is creating voters unhappy with a dual two-axis party system which does not effectively represent them (or in truth many others). If world studies in political science are any indication you could expect the current dealignment to result in a major reshaping of our party system, with a multiple axis base (or unfortunately a completely issue based one) resulting in the more representative and inclusive 3-5 party system.

I agree. I would say at least 30% of voters are actually swing voters. That is an entire Moderate Party that should be represented.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'm actually surprised at how many righties there are here now. I mean considering how horrid Bush and company are.

Just as it's possible (and common) to be a liberal and hate Hillary, it's just as possible to dissapprove of Bush and Co. and still maintain conservative views.

 

[CellarDoor]

The thing you complain about the most is the constant "Bush bashing." Bush's Disapproval rating is hovering around 60%. The majority of Americans disapprove of him so it makes sense that the majority of this board would as well. I believe an even higher percentage of Americans believe this country is headed in the wrong direction.

In addition to the above, angry people tend to be more vocal than happy ones. The Republicans hold all three branches of government and they have shifted to the far right.

Also, while I have no data to back this up, I would tend to believe that a "computer hardware" forum would be more liberal, and the internet and things like blogs tend to be more liberal, whereas talk radio tends to be more conservative. Again, I have no data to back that up, but it seems reasonable to me.

To sum up, I think it's a combination of how our country feels as a whole, but is exaggerated a bit by the nature of a computer hardware internet forum.

Edit: (referring to OP) Also, I think you personally are far off to the right, which means a vast majority of people relative to you would be to the left. I've seen a couple of examples where you tend toward the middle (civil unions for example) but these don't negate your defense of the extreme right-wing of the Republican party in practically every facet for the last few months.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Any of you long timers have any thoughts on this?

<--- quality of conservative poster

I post here to learn different points of view and to completely own the ill-informed.
If I wanted a circle jerk...I would be stooping to their level.

:laugh:

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Dean

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On another point research clearly indicates a major dealignment with the current party system in America (from both sides). Politics is becoming more approachable to the common man today, partly because of information availability. Combined with less 'belonging' this is creating voters unhappy with a dual two-axis party system which does not effectively represent them (or in truth many others). If world studies in political science are any indication you could expect the current dealignment to result in a major reshaping of our party system, with a multiple axis base (or unfortunately a completely issue based one) resulting in the more representative and inclusive 3-5 party system.

I agree. I would say at least 30% of voters are actually swing voters. That is an entire Moderate Party that should be represented.

I am not sure if this is true. I read that Rove, who is as smart of a political mind as any in the country, believes that as a country we are down to about a 7% middle.
The rest will vote one way or the other.
It is this 7% that they are fighting for, plus the drive to get their own base out.

I am not sure how we can actually measure who is middle and not. Saying your middle and actually being middle are two different things. I can claim to be a moderate all day long, but if I vote a straight Republican ticket how moderate am I? At least when it comes to voting.