Why are People Constantly Complaining about the Economy?

[jstern01]

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/20/150871935/as-workers-age-oil-industry-braces-for-skills-gap

 

[Dr. Zaus]

What the hell folks?

People with a BS or better have a 5% unemployment rate. University education isn't the problem! Its the relative low-value of the other 60% of people who fail to get said education that's the problem.


The problem is that "a job", a full time salaried position, is NOT enough for these people. Everyone seems to think that they are entitled to above-average returns. If you want to make more than the minimum-wage for a salaried worker and quality health-care and retirement? Go become a teacher in some shit-hole in Texas or the inner city. They wan't any warm body they can find with a university degree.

 

[mikeymikec]

Why do so many people seem to think that the sole purpose of an education is to get a job?

It's completely absurd.

Ok, based on the premise that most people *have* to get a job, and that most people would like to get a job that allows them to pursue their idea of happiness, what would you suggest they do?

If I didn't have to have a job to pay the bills, I would pursue a number of means of education for my own personal benefit/enjoyment, but that's not the point of this thread!

 

[Jhhnn]

What the hell folks?

People with a BS or better have a 5% unemployment rate. University education isn't the problem! Its the relative low-value of the other 60% of people who fail to get said education that's the problem.


The problem is that "a job", a full time salaried position, is NOT enough for these people. Everyone seems to think that they are entitled to above-average returns. If you want to make more than the minimum-wage for a salaried worker and quality health-care and retirement? Go become a teacher in some shit-hole in Texas or the inner city. They wan't any warm body they can find with a university degree.

As if an increase in those having BS degrees would automagically increase the number of jobs where that would be useful.

All too many people just look at the opportunities within the system, when the problems wrt employment & compensation are more about the system itself, ie, systemic problems.

That's what happens with a large shift of national income to the tippy top. 1000 people earning $10M/yr can't possibly create the same kind of demand as 200,000 people earning $50K/yr, so the economy in general suffers on account of that.

 

[Todd33]

I just got an raise. Graduate degree FTW. Of course my wife is out of work, but she isn't really looking for work actively.

 

[TheSlamma]

I think 8%+ is the new norm for unemployment. Every time the unemployment has gotten low in the last 30+ years it's been during a get rich quick scheme.. dot com bubbles, house flipping, mortgage crisis and other get rich quick schemes is the only time it seems to drop.

It's just my opinion, but I make it based on oberservations

 

[Vic Vega]

...

 

[piasabird]

I guess you have not purchased anything lately?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

As if an increase in those having BS degrees would automagically increase the number of jobs where that would be useful.

In the long-run this would be the case, yes. In the short run we don't have a problem, BS = move from 14% unemployment to 5%: a very natural level of unemployment.

All too many people just look at the opportunities within the system, when the problems wrt employment & compensation are more about the system itself, ie, systemic problems.

The problem is with the ethics of employment. People are not commodities to be traded in an open market. Treating people like humans that provide a resource instead of resources made out of meat-Popsicles is essential to reforming the system. The economic perspective needs to lose it's value in our training of MBAs. Further, there needs to be a requirement that executives in larger companies be properly licences AND that ethical violations lead to a loss of that licence.

That's what happens with a large shift of national income to the tippy top. 1000 people earning $10M/yr can't possibly create the same kind of demand as 200,000 people earning $50K/yr, so the economy in general suffers on account of that.

This is a problem.

A proper redistribution of wealth would come from an increase of the earned-income-credit, making it independent of how many children you have, and by increasing taxes on capital gains.

 

[werepossum]

In the long-run this would be the case, yes. In the short run we don't have a problem, BS = move from 14% unemployment to 5%: a very natural level of unemployment.


The problem is with the ethics of employment. People are not commodities to be traded in an open market. Treating people like humans that provide a resource instead of resources made out of meat-Popsicles is essential to reforming the system. The economic perspective needs to lose it's value in our training of MBAs. Further, there needs to be a requirement that executives in larger companies be properly licences AND that ethical violations lead to a loss of that licence.

This is a problem.

A proper redistribution of wealth would come from an increase of the earned-income-credit, making it independent of how many children you have, and by increasing taxes on capital gains.

Increasing corporate and capital gains taxes without simultaneously addressing the factors that make outsourcing more practical than domestic production will simply drive business (and therefore jobs) out of the country at a faster rate. I'd like to see the corporate tax abolished and capital gains taxed as wage income (after indexing for inflation), but our domestic environment needs to be fixed first.

 

[Jhhnn]

Increasing corporate and capital gains taxes without simultaneously addressing the factors that make outsourcing more practical than domestic production will simply drive business (and therefore jobs) out of the country at a faster rate. I'd like to see the corporate tax abolished and capital gains taxed as wage income (after indexing for inflation), but our domestic environment needs to be fixed first.

One of the remarkable things about the way we deal with capital is that while it's illegal to try to take more than $10K in cash out of the country, billions go out every day with a few clicks of a keyboard...

Offshoring doesn't even begin to explain the causes behind the current slump, at all, and they whole song & dance about education is pure diversion. Let's look at who's actually out of work-

From here, a very interesting piece-

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/assessing-yet-another-round-structural-unemployment-arguments

Small business? They report their biggest problem is sales, or lack thereof, which closely tracks unemployment-

Index taxes on capital gains against inflation? Just as soon as we do the same for wages...

 

[Abwx]

To many extents , Malthus was right but he was diabolized at the time
either by capitalist in need of ever cheaper workforce or by imperialist
powers in need of cannon fodder...

The world now is struggling for the limited ressources that are not
enough to allow the whole countries to sustain an US like wastefull
way of life.....

The economies are simply broken and wont recover since their
efficencies are based on conditions that no longer exist..

 

[Budarow2]

As if an increase in those having BS degrees would automagically increase the number of jobs where that would be useful.

All too many people just look at the opportunities within the system, when the problems wrt employment & compensation are more about the system itself, ie, systemic problems.

That's what happens with a large shift of national income to the tippy top. 1000 people earning $10M/yr can't possibly create the same kind of demand as 200,000 people earning $50K/yr, so the economy in general suffers on account of that.[/QUOTE]

All very true and the last paragraph is exactly why the world is in this economic mess. And I don't want to hear any blather about how the rich "earned" all their money. The tax code was gamed and the wealthy were "allowed" to keep more of what they "earned" while the middle class (excluding most government workers...sorry if it offends anyone, but generally true) was gamed and our earning taxed away.

 

[1prophet]

Why do so many people seem to think that the sole purpose of an education is to get a job?

It's completely absurd.

If you can easily afford the 100,000 plus in debt that many are ending up with, then you should pursue whatever major you want regardless of the cost factor.

 

[Doppel]

I've not cmoe back to this thread in a few days, but before I head out I just came upon this link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/0-unemployment-looks-095200354.html

In the U.S., college grads who studied astrophysics, geophysics, pharmacology and actuarial science had zero unemployment in 2010

 

[PrinceofWands]

If you can easily afford the 100,000 plus in debt that many are ending up with, then you should pursue whatever major you want regardless of the cost factor.

While this can be true it isn't inherent. I have over 300 semester credits and did it all taking only ~$7000 in loans (mostly for my graduate studies). First I got the meaningless stuff out of the way at community colleges, which are often only $2-4k/yr for a couple years. Then I only attend reasonably priced schools which gets the cost down to about $6-10k/yr for a couple years. That's only ~$18k for a BA/BS, most of which you can easily pay for by working your way through, or obtaining grants and scholarships. This doesn't even factor in things like Running Start or CLEP or other cheap options.

As long as you're smart in your schooling it's simply not a significant financial burden...and I say this as someone who's never made over $30k/yr in his life. It's getting a LOT worse in the last 2-4 years, but that should adjust sooner or later.