I saw that they're only 75% and I'm wondering why? I thought for such high quality power supplies, they'd be up in the 90s. Why aren't there many high efficiency power supplies??? Cost exempt to an extent.
Why are PCP&C PSUs not high efficency?
- Thread starter imported_goku
- Start date
Could be 75% min which would be pretty good.
They also rate their units at 50c, which naturally makes things harder; most others rate theirs at 40c or less.
They also rate their units at 50c, which naturally makes things harder; most others rate theirs at 40c or less.
Seems like the PC P & C Silencer series has higher rated efficiency, like the 610 EPS12V:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S61EPS
I have not found any info on whether the reported 83% efficiency rating can be accurately compared to other PS's.
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S61EPS
I have not found any info on whether the reported 83% efficiency rating can be accurately compared to other PS's.
PianoMan
Senior member
- Jan 28, 2006
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I don't recall any PSU I've run across ever being efficient in the 90's, or even in the upper 80's. You're rectifying an AC waveform into direct current, which, if memory serves, would require some serious physics manipulation to get up that high in efficiency due to I2R losses and heat buildup. I guess you could go superconduction and get there. 
I'm intrigued by PC P&C PSU's, but they seem so expensive. Many here hold them in high regard, though.
PM
I'm intrigued by PC P&C PSU's, but they seem so expensive. Many here hold them in high regard, though.
PM
Originally posted by: PianoMan
I don't recall any PSU I've run across ever being efficient in the 90's, or even in the upper 80's. You're rectifying an AC waveform into direct current, which, if memory serves, would require some serious physics manipulation to get up that high in efficiency due to I2R losses and heat buildup. I guess you could go superconduction and get there.
I'm intrigued by PC P&C PSU's, but they seem so expensive. Many here hold them in high regard, though.
PM
It's possible to hit high 80s efficiency depending on the PSU and load. For example check out the numbers of the Seasonic SS-400HT 80+
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article261-page3.html
Be sure and note the corrected percentages at the bottom of the linked page.
Getting better than 85% is possible with water cooled commercial SMPSs that cost >$2000.
...Galvanized
PCP&C didn't make efficent PSUs as they didn't think that was important, just as they didn't make quiet PSUs as they didn't think that was important either. They cared about low ripple and reliability which is far from a bad place to start for PSUs.
As the market's changed so has their product range and it's features. The newer models are more efficent and have all the mod cons like thermally controlled fans.
As the market's changed so has their product range and it's features. The newer models are more efficent and have all the mod cons like thermally controlled fans.
MAKE?? PCP&C e-pee-pee does not make/build PSUs...This is a FACT.
http://www.win-tact.com.tw/ builds the Turbo series and the Silencer series is built by Seasonic.
The high price of a PCP&C pays for advertising and customer support. They do offer a good
product that's highly over rated=fanboyism.
In the last four months two PCP&C 510s have been posted in the C&C Forum that blew up/fried.
Note: One might have been posted in the Technical Support Forum.
Note2: Our local PR boy for PCP&C chilled both threads via PM so PCP&C would loose little face.
This is also a fact.
...Galvanized
---
Note 3: Our PM logs show no such messages so you are blowing smoke. This is a fact!
Note 4: Lay off the personal attacks or you will be posting elsewhere for awhile. This is also a fact.
AnandTech Moderator
The PCP&C Silnecer in my system has "PCP&C" silk-screened on the PCB, nowhere dose it say Seasonic, the specs also read differently across the board then any Seasonic (but very close to the Seasonic Super Silencer).
So while they are defiantly based on others designs they are not simply rebadged units from Seasonic or Win-Tach (<-- wow, worst web page ever).
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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Again albeit galvanized sometimes makes a few good points.....sometimes he has no clue what hes talking about!!
He talks about things he has no clue about.....in fact unsubstatiated assumptions.....
for example-- Note2: Our local PR boy for PCP&C chilled both threads via PM so PCP&C would loose little face.
This is also a fact. -- all BS no fact at all!!
Then you must remember that even though some PSU`s are made by other companies which is the truth. Some of those companies have there own engineers who change things a bit before they ship out to the customer.
Then we get to the main subject -- Efficiency -- I believe BobtheLost hit on that pretty well --
Then we can look at this whole subject of Efficiency ratings.....albeit the 80+ website is a very valuable tool and there goals are admirable and proper.....
What good is having a PSU that has a high ER if your going to have to replace it in a year or 2? I believe quality and reliabilty must come into play......75% ER + quality and reliability and workmanship vs 80% ER + shoddy workmanship(YES it is possible to have a highly rated PSU and bad workmanship) and a life of maybe 1yr or so.....which would you choose.....lolol
Then you look at the ER of the PC Power & Cooling 850 -- Er 83%...or 1k......83%..
Yes-- PC Power & Cooling has changed with the times...as BobtheLost statd they did address the noise issue by adding a highly efficient thermally controlled fan......
Then my final point is there are many good PSU`s that are NOT listed on that 80+ website for many reasons to and including its not really that big of a deal to alot of people.....just becuase a PSU is NOT listed does not mean you should discount that brand rebadged or not......
Finally if you look at the 80plus website you will see that there are a few PSu`s that have gotten terrible reviews from other sites......which ones you ask?
Look around and check them out....heheee
It would be nice if Galvanized would get his facts straight and NOT assume what he doesn`t know to be true....
There an old chinese saying that goes like this---
Don`t believe everything you think.
I usually for the most part just sit back and bide my time reading what other people say....but I will speak up when somebody spews misinformation right and left...
usually I adher this policy pretty close -- We have some real experts here that post with the authority of a god, when it concerns
PSUs. I might be better off reading what they have to say first.
I do have an educated opinion to offer but it would just be an good guess.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
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The warranty is enough for me to recommend PCP&C. Especially for a system that absolutely has to have a high uptime. If the PSU fails they'll get you a new one much faster than any other company I've delt with for PSUs.
PCP&C is more like a server quality PSU vs something like Fortron, OCZ, Corsair, Seasonic and other good brands which are more gemer/home user oriented.
PCP&C is more like a server quality PSU vs something like Fortron, OCZ, Corsair, Seasonic and other good brands which are more gemer/home user oriented.
Originally posted by: PianoMan
I don't recall any PSU I've run across ever being efficient in the 90's, or even in the upper 80's. You're rectifying an AC waveform into direct current, which, if memory serves, would require some serious physics manipulation to get up that high in efficiency due to I2R losses and heat buildup. I guess you could go superconduction and get there.
PM
It's difficult to get into the 90%s - it is just possible, as some telecoms/specialist PSUs may operate in this range. However, prices are high - e.g. a 400W supply may cost $250 for parts alone.
There are ways to improve efficiency - but they're expensive. Most involve adding parts. E.g. replacing an inefficient low-voltage rectifier diode (a passive component) can be replaced with a MOSFET and associated control circuitry (active components).
Active PFC may improve efficiency - but it's a bit of a toss-up between losses in the active PFC circuit, and improvements (mainly reduced I2R losses) in the rest of the circuit. However, if you want efficient active PFC you need to use special components - e.g. GaAs diodes.
An affordable PSU based on a modern active design and standard components - should get around 80-85% at optimum load (but note that this could be as low as 70% at low load).
Originally posted by: Operandi
The PCP&C Silnecer in my system has "PCP&C" silk-screened on the PCB, nowhere dose it say Seasonic, the specs also read differently across the board then any Seasonic (but very close to the Seasonic Super Silencer).
Seasonic manufactures thier own PCBs
Note: Enhance builds for Silverstone and Silverstone insists on having the current limiters tweaked. This seperates thier line of Elements from the ENP-xxxxGH units Enhance builds. I have a feeling the same is true in your case Operandi
So while they are defiantly based on others designs they are not simply rebadged units from Seasonic or Win-Tach (<-- wow, worst web page ever).
Wrong!! They are closer to a rebadge than most would admit.
Win-Tach is a crappy looking site but they do build good units for PCP&C.
...Galvanized
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Originally posted by: Operandi
The PCP&C Silnecer in my system has "PCP&C" silk-screened on the PCB, nowhere dose it say Seasonic, the specs also read differently across the board then any Seasonic (but very close to the Seasonic Super Silencer).
Seasonic manufactures thier own PCBs
Note: Enhance builds for Silverstone and Silverstone insists on having the current limiters tweaked. This seperates thier line of Elements from the ENP-xxxxGH units Enhance builds. I have a feeling the same is true in your case Operandi
So while they are defiantly based on others designs they are not simply rebadged units from Seasonic or Win-Tach (<-- wow, worst web page ever).
Wrong!! They are closer to a rebadge than most would admit.
Win-Tach is a crappy looking site but they do build good units for PCP&C.
...Galvanized
You could very well be right.
Frankly as long as I know where it (PSU) came from, and offers something the original manufacture doesn?t (features, price, performance) I'm fine with rebadged units. I actually bought the Silencer because it was based on a Seasonic.
I can confirm that the PCP&C Silencer series is based on the SeaSonic S-12. My dad bought the Silencer 470W and I opened it up to take a look. The layout is virtually identical to the S12 and it even has the SS logo on some parts. The only differences I noticed were the fan size/placement, the heatsink shapes, and the capacitor brands. I was shocked to see that PCP&C used OST capacitors (which I've seen a ton of fail) where SeaSonic used United Chemicon caps (one of the best brands).
GalvanizedYankee, Jonnyguru is pretty much done with helping people out on PSUs or at least at Hard forums. Too bad though. That pretty much leaves me, you, and howard. Anyway, Jediyoda, IMO, should be banned. His constant intervention at completely random times for no reason at all is starting to bug me, and I'm sure it has been bugging you for a while now. Just take a look at the argument I was having with him in that other 3 page PSU thread, almost all his statements are just wrong. Well, have a nice day.
-dB
-dB
If you compare the PCP&C Silencer to the Seasonic Super Silencer the similarities are even more apparent (even the names are nearly the same); it's almost impossible to tell them apart.
Seasonic has been using the same circuit design for all their high-end units (Super Silencer, Tornado, S12, M12), each new generation is just further refined version (think Nissan VQ engine).
I don't remember what caps are in my 360 watt PCP&C Silencer but a few OSTs have made it into Seasonics as well Either way OST definitely isn't the best but there are for sure worse; maybe it's a supply issue?
Fortron is a major manufacturer and supplier to numerous OEM's. Their sales to home users surely pale in comparison and of those the product actually targetting retail is prolly insignificant. Seasonic is also manufactuer. Those others are just rebadges for the enthusiast market.
We heard the same schtuff about Antec warranties being worth the premium when in fact if a PSU fails you pay the shipping and incur loss of use at best and may even have other components destroyed by the shoddy PSU. By nature of being a rebrand it had to either be lower quality or cost a lot more than the equivalent. Better to buy quality from the source manufacturer. While I am not equating PCP&C to Antec, I am saying that to knowingly pay for some nebulous warranty whether included the price or at additional cost is rarely wise.
Generally I completely agree with that but there are a few exceptions. Zalman and Corsair for example both have advantages over what the original manufactures offer, FSP and Seasonic respectively.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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I am sorry that when I am posting comments on a given you consider it intervention...
I didn`t know there were certain people designated to comment on certain subjects.....
You say my comments are all wrong yet you do nothing to prove them wrong other than to say they are wrong!!
Links as in hard facts would be a good place to start...
As to the argument as you call it the other day -- I am so sorry if you cannot accept the fact that the Antec Neo has had issues with CAP`s even though it`s made by Seasonic -- if you think I am wrong knock yourself out proving me wrong!!
Antec is NOT one of the better PSU`s in my opinion...
Your opinion is they are a top rate cutting edge PSU....
Somebody should do a simple poll to see how many agree with you or will they all be wrong also????
then you go on to prove you have no clue when you say PC Power & Cooling PSU`s does not modify there PSU`s with there own in house Engineers....
yet othr more knowledgeable people than you tend to agree that the end product is modified by their own engineers......so go figure....
As far as you thinking your PSU knowledge is in the same league as Galvanized and Howard that is such a laugh.....there also Zepper and Operandi who are in the same league as Galvanized and Howard and several others who pop on from time to time....
At least with Galvanized and Howard and even Zepper and Operandi you don`t see any of them making any positive statements about any Antec PSU.....
other than possibly a generic that - if your using an Antec and your not having CAP issues then good for you!!!
As far as jonnyGURU is concerned the dude knows his stuff and is to be listened too!!
His points are well taken and his reviews are second to none!!
Yet I still cannot believe you actually put yourself in the same catagorie as Galvanized and Howard...
Things that make you go hmmmmm......
tell that to JEDIyoda...
no power supply to date will get 90% efficiancy, but anything 80+ certified does 80% minimum. Why are you considering pcp&c? If you have that much cash, get a zippy.
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